50 trim not that fast. please bring some ideas.

[oldman]

Stay on topic people.

 

[97gstnick]

you know what, im gonna try and make it out to a good dyno and have it dynoed on say.... 20psi and let you guys know my numbers and maybe you can tell me if it seems about right for my mods.

if i come to the conclusion that all in all, it is pretty decent. so will come cams, jm smim and 75mm tb with this tax return....

 

[mirkoelek]

. well guys, i tuned my car a bit and was running about 19lbs,(spiking to 22). and it felt pretty good. i just dont know if it should be faster? maybe its as fast as it should be? i guess maybe i had more of an expectation? hmm.

one of the things that got me doubting the power it was makin was the fact that my stock clutch is still holding up strong. i have heard people say keep it at low boost because it will slip. but i was just lookin in the forums and some guy on here is makin 468whp! on stock clutch. so maybe it can hold more than believed..?

i know my car needs to be tuned better, but i completely refuse to have someone else do it. i am doing it ALL by myself. if its slow, then its slow. i dont care, i just like to do my own artwork. but i dont mind advice. im gonna keep messing with it and try to work little things out. i know i gotta do some basic maintenance on it too.

ok, some people here mentioned tuning, maft-t , saft and etc.. so everything about fuel setup. hmm. lets say fuel is not as close important as AIR. you think with 1000cc injectors, perfect tune and 14b ,you can make 400hp ---- i dont think so. think about it , air is important. you have pretty big turbo (a lot of air) there is no doubt about that. but does that air coming into your engine. . you dont know . you have to know. 50trim wont be that efficient enough if you have stock head , TB, intake manifold (more or less) and very important cams. you need to get that AIR into your engine. a lof people here told you to get a logger, maybe its time for dsmlink (can dattalog anything) to make everything much easier for you. one more time very important , get that AIR into your engine.

 

[97gstnick]

ok, some people mentioned tuning, maft-t , saft, so everything about fuel. hmm. lets say fuel is not as close as important as AIR. you think with 1000cc injectors and perfect tune and 14b you can make 400hp ---- i dont think so. think about it , air is important. you have pretty big turbo (a lot of air) there is no doubt about that. but does that air coming into your engine. . you dont know . you have to know. 50trim wont be that efficient if you have stock head , TB, intake manifold (more or less) and very important cams. you need to get that AIR into your engine. a lof people here told you to get a logger, maybe its time for dsmlink to make everything much easier for you. one more time very important , AIR is not going into your engine>.

ok, no need to speak like im a complete idiot. cause i can assure you i am not. i am just addressing an issue with my car that maybe someone else has run into before. please dont insult my intelligence with explaining the basics of how horse power is made. i know how it is. i just wanna know if mine is making the power it should with my given mods. i just want some insight on a little comparison to other peoples experiences with a similar setup.

 

[97gstnick]

im gonna log my car when i get a chance and post up how much air it is flowing at certain rpm points. maybe that will help you help me.

 

[mirkoelek]

im gonna log my car when i get a chance and post up how much air it is flowing at certain rpm points. maybe that will help you help me.

i'm not insulting your inteligence, at least didnt want to. Just never mind what i said. good luck with resolving the problem.

 

[oldman]

im gonna log my car when i get a chance and post up how much air it is flowing at certain rpm points. maybe that will help you help me.

Good idea, log tps, rpm, timing and o2.

 

[97gstnick]

i'm not insulting your inteligence, at least didnt want to. Just never mind what i said. good luck with resolving the problem.

ok, maybe i just misjudged your tone. im sorry, but a lot of people on here just like to talk trash and offer nothing. forget what i said also. thanks for the good luck gesture.

 

[mirkoelek]

ok, maybe i just misjudged your tone. im sorry, but a lot of people on here just like to talk trash and offer nothing. forget what i said also. thanks for the good luck gesture.

I know what you mean. Not necesserily you have to agre with everybody here. Just listen what makes sense to you. You are the one who know your car the best. I have a friend, he would never take my advice, but everybody else's. he rebult his engine 3 times. we have the same car. At the time i bougth mine stock and had no knowledge about anything (didnt know where turbo is located). He had some modifications and he was so proud with all that. Like you said he would insult my inteligence. I learned a lot here ( damn some of these guys are great), just reading posts and asking questions. My friend wouldnt do that, just being stubborn. My car for the last two years never had even little oil leak ( let me knock on the wood). Once again i'm not relating anything of this to you, just talking BS here . i love to be neck to neck with the viper, with evo16g only!!!!.

 

[97gstnick]

I know what you mean. Not necesserily you have to agre with everybody here. Just listen what makes sense to you. You are the one who know your car the best. I have a friend, he would never take my advice, but everybody else's. he rebult his engine 3 times. we have the same car. At the time i bougth mine stock and had no knowledge about anything (didnt know where turbo is located). He had some modifications and he was so proud with all that. Like you said he would insult my inteligence. I learned a lot here ( damn some of these guys are great), just reading posts and asking questions. My friend wouldnt do that, just being stubborn. My car for the last two years never had even little oil leak ( let me knock on the wood). Once again i'm not relating anything of this to you, just talking BS here . i love to be neck to neck with the viper, with evo16g only!!!!.

yea your right. i knew the basics of cars but nothing about turbos. i have learned so much about cars in the past 2 years. and i owe it all to dsmtuners. thanks for the encouraging words again.

 

[InjenTalon96]

ok so i had to clairify what years i was talking about. ive seen 50 trims on a 1g go alot faster then one on a 2g. if you were able to get some port work and bigger tb and intake mani ide bet ude see huge gains.

 

[kanderson111]

97 gstnick did you get a chance to do any logs yet?


Don't get discouraged by these guys and they're turbo battle. They can't get through they're heads that the 16g and 50trim are both good turbos. 16g pulls harder in first gear and part of second, 50 trim more than makes up for it in the upper rpm range of 2,3,&4 gear. But all of that doesn't matter, we need to get you up to speed. Some of us are more worried about helping you than comparing turbos.

 

[97gstnick]

97 gstnick did you get a chance to do any logs yet?


Don't get discouraged by these guys and they're turbo battle. They can't get through they're heads that the 16g and 50trim are both good turbos. 16g pulls harder in first gear and part of second, 50 trim more than makes up for it in the upper rpm range of 2,3,&4 gear. But all of that doesn't matter, we need to get you up to speed. Some of us are more worried about helping you than comparing turbos.

no sir i have not yet. i am stuck in tennessee right now, but i hope to be home tomorrow afternoon. i will post it up as soon as i get that chance. i really appreciate your help very much.

 

[RU2SLOW?]

ok so i had to clairify what years i was talking about. ive seen 50 trims on a 1g go alot faster then one on a 2g. if you were able to get some port work and bigger tb and intake mani ide bet ude see huge gains.

Before You Reply:

3. Don't try to help if you don't know the answer - bad advice can be worse than no advice (no "I think" or "I guess" or "I've heard").

I'm sorry to say it, but your last 2 comments have been sad sad excuses for any useable kind of advice. The DSM community and the sport compact world in general have both seen cars go very fast on a relatively inexpensive turbo on a good tune with pump gas thanks to the 50 trim in the past few years. Before you start talking about turbos in general based on a handful of cars you've seen personally take into account that there is a world outside the one you live in. Just because my friend who has a friend says 50 trims are garbage and my cousin's sister's boyfriend doesn't like his, it doesn't mean they are bad turbos. Obviosuly a 1G will theoretically see more power with a higher flowing head- this doesn't however translate to how well a 50 trim itself performs- a turbo is only as good as its supporting mods and the person who tunes for them.

Now, let's get past this and move on to some solid info to work with like logs and tuning measures.

And BTW adding more mods to improve air flow will help with power but will still only be putting a band-aid over the fact that his car isn't putting out the kind of power that it should be with his existing mods and his turbo. Once his initial problem is addressed the mods you suggested will be much much more effective

 

[blcknspo0ln]

no.. I believe that he is just an info regurgitator (sp?).. meaning he reads one or two things about a certain thing, and repeats it in a tech arguement to feel smart. no harm really. that's what us other members are for.

besides, it's painfully obvious that if you get a bigger TB/mani and portwork you WILL see bigger gains... no sh*t captain obvious..

but yes please, let's get onto some logs and wideband readings..

also, (while I admit I've fell for this too), that the mentality of most DSMers is that if it's not going fast with the mods you have.. just buy more things and slap them on. where if 90% of the tuners on here would work on their TUNING and MAINTENANCe.. they would go a lot faster with the same amount of mods..

one more edit*.. while i'm not too keen on tuning with a GM MAFT.. I believe they go by increments of 2%.. you may want to read up on HOW to tune the GM MAFT and then use them once you get your logs running. also, it is apparent that the MAFT (while being a hit or miss) can be erradic when producing constant results as far as tuneability and reliability. perhaps you should consider an SAFC to further fine tune..

besides, does a MAFT work like the AFC, where it has a HI and a LO setting?

 

[mirkoelek]

no.. I believe that he is just an info regurgitator (sp?).. meaning he reads one or two things about a certain thing, and repeats it in a tech arguement to feel smart. no harm really. that's what us other members are for.

besides, it's painfully obvious that if you get a bigger TB/mani and portwork you WILL see bigger gains... no sh*t captain obvious..

but yes please, let's get onto some logs and wideband readings..

also, (while I admit I've fell for this too), that the mentality of most DSMers is that if it's not going fast with the mods you have.. just buy more things and slap them on. where if 90% of the tuners on here would work on their TUNING and MAINTENANCe.. they would go a lot faster with the same amount of mods..

one more edit*.. while i'm not too keen on tuning with a GM MAFT.. I believe they go by increments of 2%.. you may want to read up on HOW to tune the GM MAFT and then use them once you get your logs running. also, it is apparent that the MAFT (while being a hit or miss) can be erradic when producing constant results as far as tuneability and reliability. perhaps you should consider an SAFC to further fine tune..

besides, does a MAFT work like the AFC, where it has a HI and a LO setting?

lets everybody agree, guy needs logger. this tread shouldnt be this long. Guy is getting confused

 

[97gstnick]

yea, i guess my upstream o2 sensore is shot. its giving a super lean reading. and plus i have bout 120,000 miles on the motor and used to run a walbro 255 wit no afpr for bout six months. so i am pretty dang certain that it is the o2. its makin it tough to tune it properly. im thinkin about buying the aem dual channel wideband kit from slowboy. from my understanding, you just screw in the o2 into your stock location and it has a harness that goes to your stock o2 harness and give the ecu a narrowband reading...?

 

[arash15]

yea, i guess my upstream o2 sensore is shot. its giving a super lean reading. and plus i have bout 120,000 miles on the motor and used to run a walbro 255 wit no afpr for bout six months. so i am pretty dang certain that it is the o2. its makin it tough to tune it properly. im thinkin about buying the aem dual channel wideband kit from slowboy. from my understanding, you just screw in the o2 into your stock location and it has a harness that goes to your stock o2 harness and give the ecu a narrowband reading...?

just replace your o2 sensor with the stock replacement. (narrowband). then go and buy a wideband like the zeitronix zt-2. weld a 02 bung in your downpipe then wire it up and your set to go.

 

[mirkoelek]

yea, i guess my upstream o2 sensore is shot. its giving a super lean reading. and plus i have bout 120,000 miles on the motor and used to run a walbro 255 wit no afpr for bout six months. so i am pretty dang certain that it is the o2. its makin it tough to tune it properly. im thinkin about buying the aem dual channel wideband kit from slowboy. from my understanding, you just screw in the o2 into your stock location and it has a harness that goes to your stock o2 harness and give the ecu a narrowband reading...?

you can do it, but to much hustle.

 

[97gstnick]

you can do it, but to much hustle.

but it looks to have plugs and everything. so it shouldnt be a hassle. plus i dont have to buy the stock replacement. just buy the wideband kit. the cost for buying a widebang kit and stock o2 evens out the the dual channel kit. i think im gonna do the dual channel thing.

 

[mirkoelek]

go for it and let me know how did it work. hopefuly you wont have any problems at closed loop cycle.

 

[AL92]

I had an RS49 on my last 1g.I had 650 fics,afpr,supra pump,maft and custom chip.Apexi n1 downpipe and catback.

My car was very slow mph and quartermile.Almost every run.
Occasional run was better.I don't have the times recorded but they were like 13s most of the time.and not even low 13s.
My stock clutch was definitely not up to the job .You can see that in the 60fts they were horrible...horrible and got more horrible the higher boost and rpm I tried.There is no way a stock 1 or 2 g clutch can not slip on the 50 trim at 20psi.You are dreaming if you think its not slipping.It is costing you mph and 60fts and losing power like crazy.
I also was running stock sidemount and it would heatsoak fast.Another big power loss there.
To top it off had timing wrong from slipped stock balancer.
I also had bad phantom knock killing huge power and only finally got rid of that with programming in the custom chip.After that the 50 was much better but the stock clutch and intercooler still killed the potential of it.I bought a new clutch and huge fmic but then sold the car and got my present 2g.I sold my 50 trim and planning on FP3065.

 

[97gstnick]

I had an RS49 on my last 1g.I had 650 fics,afpr,supra pump,maft and custom chip.Apexi n1 downpipe and catback.

My car was very slow mph and quartermile.Almost every run.
Occasional run was better.I don't have the times recorded but they were like 13s most of the time.and not even low 13s.
My stock clutch was definitely not up to the job .You can see that in the 60fts they were horrible...horrible and got more horrible the higher boost and rpm I tried.There is no way a stock 1 or 2 g clutch can not slip on the 50 trim at 20psi.You are dreaming if you think its not slipping.It is costing you mph and 60fts and losing power like crazy.
I also was running stock sidemount and it would heatsoak fast.Another big power loss there.
To top it off had timing wrong from slipped stock balancer.
I also had bad phantom knock killing huge power and only finally got rid of that with programming in the custom chip.After that the 50 was much better but the stock clutch and intercooler still killed the potential of it.I bought a new clutch and huge fmic but then sold the car and got my present 2g.I sold my 50 trim and planning on FP3065.

im pretty sure that its not slippin. it doesnt smell and the higher boost i make the more power it makes. i know my tune is off pretty bad bacause my o2 is dead. when i get the dual channel wideband, then i will tune it real good and we'll see from there.

 

[97gstnick]

ok, i think i might have found out a slight problem with the motor. it appears that the intake cam or exhaust cam slipped a tooth. its either the exhaust andvanced or the intake retarded a tooth. i am thinkin this would make a a little difference in the cars performance. how do i take tension of the tensioner so i can fix the cams?

 

[johnfsmith]

ok, i think i might have found out a slight problem with the motor. it appears that the intake cam or exhaust cam slipped a tooth. its either the exhaust andvanced or the intake retarded a tooth. i am thinkin this would make a a little difference in the cars performance. how do i take tension of the tensioner so i can fix the cams?

You'll need a special tool or make your own like these links...

http://www.plymouthlaser.com/ttool.htm
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbeltNOTE1.html

And here's the steps on how to do it...

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

Hope this helps