50 trim not that fast. please bring some ideas.

[DSM90AWD]

As mentioned above, the turbo is not the problem, but tuning/supporting mods/suspension driveline setup. The 50-trim will supply boost (lots of it) up thru 8K, but stock cams don't flow really well at that level. Throw some cams in and I guarantee you will be feeling the powah. I picked up .5sec and 5mph with FP2s on my 50-trim

To give all you FWDers hope, Joe Bucci recently took his into the deep 10s with a 14B.

May just want to browse his setup and see what it takes to be F&FWD

 

[missouri_dsm]

ok, i have a question that is not real serious but i was just wonderin. i finally got my car running good after a 6 month long train of problems. i have a 50 trim and on 19-20 ish psi the car is quick but not that quick. i got beat by an srt-4 that has exhaust and running 19 ish psi. (i thought i would mention that race to give you an idea of what kinda acceleration i have.) now with that being said.... anybody have any idea why it wouldnt be that fast? oh yea, im on stock clutch and its not slipping. im not making enough power to blow the stock clutch! i guess i find that weird. and one thing i think it might be is i have a crappy battery, maybe its a stupid theory... but i thought i would throw it in... but anyways, if any wisemen can throw in some ideas, i'd really appreciate it.

I looked at your profile and you dont have a catback. That is your problem. If you do have a catback you need to update your profile

 

[johnfsmith]

ok, i have a question that is not real serious but i was just wonderin. i finally got my car running good after a 6 month long train of problems. i have a 50 trim and on 19-20 ish psi the car is quick but not that quick. i got beat by an srt-4 that has exhaust and running 19 ish psi. (i thought i would mention that race to give you an idea of what kinda acceleration i have.) now with that being said.... anybody have any idea why it wouldnt be that fast? oh yea, im on stock clutch and its not slipping. im not making enough power to blow the stock clutch! i guess i find that weird. and one thing i think it might be is i have a crappy battery, maybe its a stupid theory... but i thought i would throw it in... but anyways, if any wisemen can throw in some ideas, i'd really appreciate it.

thanks again guys

I see you have the rs49t turbo. I had that turbo too and was really disappointed(my evoIII 16g was quicker). The turbo blew after about 5000 miles and had to replaced it. I went with the dual BB scm 50 trim and man it was night and day difference! I still need to send my rs49t in for warranty and sell it. Hope it's not the turbo but thought I'd post my experience with it.

 

[CanadianTSi]

To give all you FWDers hope, Joe Bucci recently took his into the deep 10s with a 14B.

May just want to browse his setup and see what it takes to be F&FWD

Can't wait till he slaps on a 16g and runs 9's

 

[99gst_racer]

Are you getting traction? I raced a SRT 4 on 19 psi w/ gutted cat, and all else stock. He didn't have any of the traction issues I had. I could hardly keep w/ him through 2nd. Once I hit 3rd I walked him though, this was w/out the slicks, and NOT (wink wink) on the street.

Dan - Keep in mind what that SRT4 had. It was running the Mopar stage 1 stuff (which offers a near perfect tune, unlike our cars which have tuning equipment that allow us to hurt the tune), gutted cat, 25 psi, Spearco FMIC, and some expensive sticky-ass tires. He was only owning you on traction and spool-up time.

When my turbo hits, it hits hard, and pulls all the way to redline. Whereas the srt turbo pulls hard down low then falls of, so he doesn't spin all the way through.

Also keep in mind that the SRT4's behavior seems to be very sporatic. There's a 50/50 chance when Kyler goes WOT, that is does hold 25 psi until redline. It doesnt always hold; sometimes it drops to 16 by redline. He can't explain why, but it does hold strong about half the time. And I physically watched Spitale hold 19 psi until redline with his SRT4 on the dyno. My point is that boost does not always fall off on those cars.

my sentiments are with you brotha man.. i trap at 106 (that's with the worst 60ft you could hope for, 3.02 ) and I have every confidence in the world that my car would stand up to 12 second car on the road.

I feel you. My 60 ft. times weren't as bad as yours, but they were still nasty. I was having a hell of a time finding the sweet spot for launching on this 50 trim. It's so much easier using a quicker spooling turbo.....

 

[Turbocharged]

We need to see logs if you want us to tell you why your car is slow. Also get a compression test to make sure your engine is in good condition.

 

[Waredtalontsi]

Originally Posted by 97gstnick
who knows.... maybe the 3 inch intercooler piping? . not sure if that really would be the case though.

Why do you run 3in intercooler piping? If it was my car i would switch to 2.25 or 2.5, bigger isn't allways better!

 

[larsrya8]

Why do you run 3in intercooler piping? If it was my car i would switch to 2.25 or 2.5, bigger isn't allways better!

This thread has beaten that question to death. 97gstnick started it too.

 

[kanderson111]

My question for 97GSTNick would be, what kind of device are you using to tune your car?

Do you have any way of knowing you A/F ratio?

Is that a common stage 3 keydiver chip or did you specify an A/F ratio and minimum timing?

The standard keydiver chip is programmed for 9/1 A/F ratio, if you couple that with a boost leak you could be running in the 8.5/1 range.

It is likely a tuning issue, but we really need to know what you are tuning with and what kind of A/F ratio you are running.

 

[project_tsi]

Dan - Keep in mind what that SRT4 had. It was running the Mopar stage 1 stuff (which offers a near perfect tune, unlike our cars which have tuning equipment that allow us to hurt the tune), gutted cat, 25 psi, Spearco FMIC, and some expensive sticky-ass tires. He was only owning you on traction and spool-up time.

Paul, I had actually forgotten what that SRT-4 was packing. 25 psi is 25 psi no matter how you look at it. If I remember correctly, I had turned the boost down to 20 psi earlier that week too. Not to mention I never got a good tune on the car all season long due to boost creep issues. On top of that he had nearly an extra half liter of displacement to only help his overall spoolup and topend. His tires were sticky, thats for sure, I remember feeling them up later on. My cheap ass burned off Ohtsu tires did not help one bit, so I fall victim to him. Oh well.

 

[99gst_racer]

I remember feeling them up later on.

Oh, you perv!

 

[alcali247]

sorry for pissing you off. But i hate when modded dsm's lose to stock or nearly stock cars especially srt's, wrx's, etc. That is why dsm's have a bad name where i live now in orlando florida. Because to many people dont know what they are doing and are losing to near stock cars and running 14's and stuff. But there are a few doing it right.. like this guy name shaun in orlando that runs 12.8 with a 14b and its a 2g fwd. And this guy with a 2g fwd that runs 13.8 with 60 trim turbo at 18 lbs. with translator 660's, with a stock 7bolt with 100k plus no cams, no afc or any tunning besides the translator and on stock tires with stock suspension....it can be done fwd or not....fwd is no excuse...especially against other fwd cars

 

[Turbocharged]

SRT-4's have a wicked traction control setup. The wastegate is activated depending on traction. If the wheels are slipping, it opens the wastegate and lowers boost. If the wheels arent spinning, the wastegate stays shut and the boost keeps building. They also have LSD. Its unfair to compare a fwd DSM to a SRT-4 when it comes to traction.

 

[bullettdsm]

Ok, I'm a little confused. On a previous post you had asked people's opinions using 3" piping http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198266&page=2&pp=25 A lot of people said that they felt it would be a problem for various reasons. Oldman, who has a very good handle on the importance of airflow, even said

the only gains from 3" inch ic piping are probably slower spool, harder working turbo and more turbulence at the throttle body

Hmm?

Now, I was kind of happy with your response in that you said you were going to try it anyway, just to see how it works out. That's cool. Great for the learning process and you never know, there may be something that will work better. Balls up and do it! Yeah!

You get back on toward the end of your thread and say the piping is done and the car is running good. Then you turn around and start a new thread about how your car has a power problem (which could very well be attributed to your piping if you re-read your other thread).

I see a bit of conflicting info in here and I would think that the fact you just did the piping could be quite relevant to your current problem and should have been brought up first thing. Many of the answers that are being given are about tuning. Your airflow is a very important part of your tuning. I also didn't catch if you still have your stock TB on there. That would certainly be a limiting factor.

I would suggest , as a start, that you go back to the smaller piping and see if there are problems with that.

Oh yeah, RU2Slow, I live in Ct also; can I take your car for the afternoon ? I'll try real hard .

MB

 

[Thomas91169]

UDo you know bad it feels to not floor your car completely down the track, witch is what I need to do to run a better time. If I floor it all the way I will boost creep to 28psi or more, thus I start to run lean, start to pull timing and start to knock! By me feathering the gas it doesn't do these things but I loose a bit of speed and ET too.

no, trust me, i know exactly how it feels for 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear to be completely useless from a stop. thats why i sold my gst, too much power, not enough traction. maybe you shouldve fixed your creep issue before going to the track, why would you go to the track with a car that is Not 100% is beyond me.

btw, ill never go back to fwd.

back to topic though

 

[project_tsi]

no, trust me, i know exactly how it feels for 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear to be completely useless from a stop. thats why i sold my gst, too much power, not enough traction. maybe you shouldve fixed your creep issue before going to the track, why would you go to the track with a car that is Not 100% is beyond me.

btw, ill never go back to fwd.

back to topic though

Good for you and your decision never to back to FWD, shows what a stellar driver you are made to be.

On my side of the plate, I'm going to use my slicks, get my decent 60', like an AWD, but NOT loose the drivetrain loss like AWD and get a much higher trap.

I went to a the track w/ a car that was not 100% because I new what it was going to do, and I new how to control it at the time. Simply do not floor it when it begins to creep. I did that every day when I drove. I wasn't an idiot and try to blow it up. Maybe all your foot has is all gas or no gas, but my foot is different and I was able to control the way it reacted. I did not have the extra money at the time to fix it properly. I properly ported everything I could but I didn't do the trick w/ a dropped DP, and a external WG was out of my reach at the time. Now, over the winter, it is getting an external WG so rid me of creep.
Worry about the way you drive your car, I will worry about the way I drive mine. I would rather be faster on the highway, or likewise, than to kill someone from a stoplight to stoplight race, which is what a lot of AWD owners seem to do. In a real race, go ahead, eat me off the line, I don't care. By the top of third you'll be wishing I would slow down for you to catch up.

Every drivetrain platform has its pro's and con's. In AWD obviously its pro's is the launches on the added traction. Its con is the drivetrain loss when traction is no longer the major role. In a FWD platform the launches are it problem, but the high end is remarkably better.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

easy there .. both of you.. we shouldn't let a good thread get closed because of the unholy FWD vs. AWD battle

then again it's off topic as it is anyway

 

[ICE_T]

I agree with you guy's about the traction on a FWD. We loose a lot of power on a lauch and particulary on the first 120-180 ft on a 1/4. I trap 119mph, and still running mid 12 ..

but they have no excuse that a setup with 50trim, and supporting mods, couldn't beat a ####ing SRT-4 with an exaust.. what the hell. when I was running my stock 14b, at 18psi,. with 22.5 slick, I beat them really easy. I ran 13.1 @ 108mph on pump gas, with steet tire, 17" ran a 13.6 @ 108mph.

Today I run a 16g evo3 setup with maft, and tmo stage 3. It's a awesome setup, and spool verry fast,. about 20psi at 3200rpm. I know the 50trim lag with a 2.0l,. but suppose to kill the stok srt-4,. and reach at least 115mph on the track.

but next summer,. I gonna run witn quaife LSD, to put more power on the road.

 

[Turbocharged]

3" intercooler piping is not the reason this guys car is slow... are you guys SERIOUS!? Stop smoking whatever it is you guys are smoking and take a fluid dynamics class so you can get some real insite instead of hearsay.

You need to have your car tuned (SHOW US A LOG) and get a compression test. For all you know you are on here talking about losing to SRT-4's with a motor that has 110 compression in all 4. Just because your car looks and acts like its healthy doesnt mean it is...

What kind of timing are you seeing?
What are your supporting fuel mods?
What is your base fuel pressure at?
LETS SEE A LOG...

And dont use the excuse that your car is tuned just fine... let us be the judge of that.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

agreed.

but the 3" IC pipe was just a suggestion.. so I dont think you should be biting his head off for it.

 

[97gstnick]

ok guys, im gonna try to answering all the questions that i remember reading.

1. yes i did say my car was running good, but that was on 14 psi, car had little pull but i figured i needed more boost to really feel it pull. its at 20-21 and it pulls pretty hard, but damn. a srt-4 with exhaust and boost controller beat me? hmm... i knew something was up. it pulls hard but not enough. (i hope you catch what i mean)
2. another thing i noticed, my car cannot run on alternator alone. that means its bad doesnt it? also my battery is real small and cheap.
3. i am tuning with gm maft. with everything zeroed out my car will cut out at 4500 while in wot due to the fact that it runs so damn rich. and it has only done this since i put on the gm maf. and i have a compensation in my eprom for the injectors. it ran perfect on the t-25 with stock maf.
4. i am running -15% fuel taking away at wot on my maft.
5. i am on stock clutch and it is still lasting.. most people say that a 50 trim running 20 psi will blow it real quick.
6. i am running open down pipe, the cat back is not connected so that is not an issue.

i hope this answers peoples questions. all im asking is if anyone has had a similar experience or might know whats up. i appreciate the help very much, if you have nothing helpful then please post somewhere else.

im gonna try to get you guys some pics later when i get back from tennessee.

 

[97gstnick]

3" intercooler piping is not the reason this guys car is slow... are you guys SERIOUS!? Stop smoking whatever it is you guys are smoking and take a fluid dynamics class so you can get some real insite instead of hearsay.

You need to have your car tuned (SHOW US A LOG) and get a compression test. For all you know you are on here talking about losing to SRT-4's with a motor that has 110 compression in all 4. Just because your car looks and acts like its healthy doesnt mean it is...

What kind of timing are you seeing?
What are your supporting fuel mods?
What is your base fuel pressure at?
LETS SEE A LOG...

And dont use the excuse that your car is tuned just fine... let us be the judge of that.

i have no problem providing you with solid answers, im in tennesee and i should be back tuesday. ill post up then.

 

[oldman]

3. i am tuning with gm maft. with everything zeroed out my car will cut out at 4500 while in wot due to the fact that it runs so damn rich. and it has only done this since i put on the gm maf. and i have a compensation in my eprom for the injectors. it ran perfect on the t-25 with stock maf.

Sounds to me like you have boost leaks, did you pressure tested after the 3" IC pipe project?

4. i am running -15% fuel taking away at wot on my maft.

What are you tuning the maft with as I do not see a logger on your profile nor have you posted any logs which many have already asked for on this thread? Just because your eprom compensates for the injectors doesn't mean you don't need a logger, I struggled for a while because my brand new Denso 720s were only only flowing 640 as I find out when I finally pulled them and sent to FIC, hope you're not tuning with your butt dyno.

 

[kanderson111]

I ran into a similar problem with my setup, (but I could recognize the problem because I have a wideband meter.)

I have keydiver chip compensated for FIC650's and a Maft. At zero the car would stutter, the more I leaned it the faster it would get. But I could not get lean enough for the amount of power I wanted without changing the base setting. After changing the base for larger injectors I got it leaned out to 10.5/1 at WOT, and it felt pretty good but the car idled like ass. This is why I ordered a second chip that was programmed for 11/1 instead of the stock setting of 9/1.

You need a way of determining your A/f ratio because you could have a similar problem, but its dangerous not to know. If you have a way to gage it you can keep leaning for power while you watch for knock with the pocketlogger.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

I ran into a similar problem with my setup, (but I could recognize the problem because I have a wideband meter.)

I have keydiver chip compensated for FIC650's and a Maft. At zero the car would stutter, the more I leaned it the faster it would get. But I could not get lean enough for the amount of power I wanted without changing the base setting. After changing the base for larger injectors I got it leaned out to 10.5/1 at WOT, and it felt pretty good but the car idled like ass. This is why I ordered a second chip that was programmed for 11/1 instead of the stock setting of 9/1.

You need a way of determining your A/f ratio because you could have a similar problem, but its dangerous not to know. If you have a way to gage it you can keep leaning for power while you watch for knock with the pocketlogger.

I've had this same problem myself. I have a Keydiver chip compensated for my 650's and set to a 10.5/1 AF ratio. After getting some work done the car would just buck and sputter at 4500 rpms. I ended up having to set the base setting on the maft to 600cc injectors to get the car to run good.