50 trim not that fast. please bring some ideas.

[98eclipseRS]

Just an idea that just crossed my mind. A local DSMer around here who is pretty highly respected once told me that he would never go with a Turbonetics 50 trim because their turbine setups are much less efficient than comparable Garret ones. He went on to tell me that from his experience for some reason, T-netics turbos never make as much power as their Garret counterparts on DSMs. I entertained his opinion for a while, and I'm still not really sure exactly what to make of it. But completely un-backed opinion or not I thought this personal experience was interesting enough to bring to light in this thread being that the person who started the thread is running an AGP T-netics hybrid turbo. Any thoughts from the turbo gurus around here???

Please tell this well respected guy(why he is I don't know) to sell his dsm do some research and shut the hell up unless he knows what he's talking about. I have the tnetics super 50 and just put down 402 to the wheels on 91 pump. Its all in the tunning.

ok guys, im gonna try to answering all the questions that i remember reading.

1. yes i did say my car was running good, but that was on 14 psi, car had little pull but i figured i needed more boost to really feel it pull. its at 20-21 and it pulls
3. i am tuning with gm maft. with everything zeroed out my car will cut out at 4500 while in wot due to the fact that it runs so damn rich. and it has only done this since i put on the gm maf. and i have a compensation in my eprom for the injectors. it ran perfect on the t-25 with stock maf.
4. i am running -15% fuel taking away at wot on my maft.

.

Did you tune again after raising the boost or did you leave it at your 14 psi tune. If you just raised the boost without compensating with a new tune you are most likely pulling timming all over the place when going WOT and that is the start of your problems. Second is you need to do a good tune to realize alot of power. I see it all the time on these boards(this is not meant to bash you by the way just somethign I noticed), some guy throws on a 20g and some supporting mods, turns the boost to 20psi and wonders why his car is slow when he doesn't tune it. Just like old man said it sounds like you have a boost leak issue. Your car is hitting fuel cut not because its running to rich but because your maf is seeing to much air which is caused by a boost leak. And that is causing you to run rich.

Oh and lastly with the gm maf you have to set the first knob(I think its the AUX) to 2 or something to have it set for 450's. having it set to zero across the whole board is if you had 390's in your car a la auto 1g's.

 

[RU2SLOW?]

98eclipseRS, thank you for responding to this thread and adding some factual knowledge to the situation. I definitely had my suspicions about the comment this guy made about the Tnetcs turbos, but I'm still pretty much a novice when it comes to turbo dynamics and characteristics. I guess your whp and 1/4 mi times back up your statements about the Tnetics turbos functioning perfectly fine on DSM motors. Much respect and props to you on both numbers and for putting together a beast of a vehicle.

 

[97gstnick]

to run rich.

Oh and lastly with the gm maf you have to set the first knob(I think its the AUX) to 2 or something to have it set for 450's. having it set to zero across the whole board is if you had 390's in your car a la auto 1g's.

hey, do you know this for a fact? im not doubting you, but just making sure...

 

[98eclipseRS]

hey, do you know this for a fact? im not doubting you, but just making sure...

yes I know this for a fact because I did this on my car when I had my gm maf. I was overly excited by getting the parts in my car and had everything zeroed out because I didn't read the instructions. When I went out my car did not want to go anywhere. Bellowed huge clouds of black smoke(unburnt fuel) and backfired+bucked anytime I got into boost. Went back checked all the conections, reread all the instructions and realized that you had to turn the aux knob to 2 or something to make it act as if you had 450's.

 

[kanderson111]

Actually Aux. knob should be at zero and the base knob should be at 2. This is the setting for 450 injectors.

 

[sweet97]

Actually Aux. knob should be at zero and the base knob should be at 2. This is the setting for 450 injectors.

This is correct. The AUX knob is for fine tuning WOT once you get a good base tune. Base tune uses airflow to control the fuel/timing as a piggyback like the MAFT/AFC does. Then you put the #4 dip switch in the ON position to tune for RPM instead of airflow as RPM is easier for the ECU to read. Setting the base knob of the Translator RICHENS the A/F ratio by 10% from the 450 setting which is having the BASE knob on 2.
I would not use the AFC until you get the tune done on the Translator first. A wideband or logger is needed to tune with. Often a KEYDIVER chip needs to be set for 470cc inj's for a good base. Setting the BASE knob clockwise leans the A/F. Getting a good base setting is the first thing to do. 2G cars tune that knob to get 0 fuel trims. low, medium and high trim. High trim is the most important for WOT operation. The next knob is IDLE. I set that just to get a smooth idle. Each knob EXCEPT the BASE knob richens the mix by turning it clockwise. The BASE is reversed, clockwise leans the mix. If you have the BASE on "0" you are causing a rich condition. The next knob, MID, is for when you roll into boost-the first 5-7 PSI. You can set this knob leaner than WOT and that will help spool time. Then set the WOT knob or zero it if you are now going to use the AFC. (WRITE DOWN YOUR SETTINGS WHEN YOU HAVE IT RUNNING DECENTLY) I use the PLXdevices M-300 wideband. Not sure how you ARE GOING TO TUNE WITH THE AFC.
Your loss of power is due to the rich condition. You should be no richer than a 10.8:1 on pump and most try for 11:1 on pump.
On the Translator the BASE and WOT knobs are the most important. I would turn the BASE to 2 or even 4. Start with the WOT on "0". The BASE knob effects the whole RPM range.
You may be leaning WOT so much with the AFC that you are getting the timing pulled a lot. More loss of power due to the increase in timing which may be cuasing a high knock sum.
You need to at least get the BASE knob tuned before going with the AFC. Not knowing how/if you can log makes tuning impossible really. You need to know your A/F with a wideband or be able to read your timing. You probably have mucho power being robbed with the rich condition and if the BASE knob is on zero you would need to take away so much fuel at WOT that you would lose timing due to knock.
Is the MAF in draw thru or blow thru position? Mark
PS: My mistake, I reread your mods and the MAFT is your tuning device, no AFC. What I wrote still applies but go to this link for good instructions for tuning the MAFT. www.fullthrottletech.com
Make sure all 4 dip switches are OFF. Sret the AUX to ZERO. BASE to from 2-4. IDLE to a good smooth idle, MID can be a bit lean for spool as it affects rolling into boost, up to 5 psi at best. Then WOT If you get a good base setting you should not have to take away much at WOT knob which would add too much timing. What features did you get on the DSMchip?

 

[98eclipseRS]

you guys have 1g's for 2g's its different.

 

[sweet97]

Yes, 2G's are different for the BASE setting. For 450's the AUX should be on 4 and the BASE knob on 2. That is the only difference I see. Then he should follow the directions on fullthrottletech.com site. Mark

 

[98eclipseRS]

^^^ so your saying that I was right by saying that the aux knob and the base knob need to be adjusted and not at zero. I don't see why I was being argued with.

 

[sweet97]

I don't think anyone was argueing. I was mistaken about the setting for 1G's and 2G's, which I corrected. Certainly the Translator needs to be set for the 450's that KEYDIVER made changes to compensate for larger injectors. Just zeroing out the translator would mess with the amount of fuel that would be delivered. That was the point I wanted to make, adjustment for ther injectors still had to take place. The actual adjustment was not correct but I found my instructions and posted the difference for a 1G & 2G.
NOT having the translator set for 450's could have been the reason the 50 trim was not as quick as it could/should have been. Mark
PS: Thanks for reminding that 1G and 2 G's have different base settings for the same size injector!

 

[97gstnick]

dang. thanks alot for the replies! i would have never noticed that. my settings are all at zero when talking about base and aux. i am definitely gonna mess with it today. thanks alot guys.

 

[97EclipseGS-T]

something is wrong... .. I pulled away from a a SRT-4 at 18 psi on a bored out Bt-28... check for boost leaks... do a full boost leak test and check compression. You mentioned about your ignition too... check bad plugs. Post a picture of the plug and it will tell us whats going on inside that engine.... Spark plugs are one of the most important parts of troubleshooting engine issues. They will tell you if you beat them to death, too lean, too rich... ect ect....


-PAUL

 

[97gstnick]

Yes, 2G's are different for the BASE setting. For 450's the AUX should be on 4 and the BASE knob on 2. That is the only difference I see. Then he should follow the directions on fullthrottletech.com site. Mark

hey, i cant put the aux knob on 2 or 4. the car wants to die or it does die

 

[1LE]

my sentiments are with you brotha man.. i trap at 106 (that's with the worst 60ft you could hope for, 3.02 ) and I have every confidence in the world that my car would stand up to 12 second car on the road.

I trapped at 104 with a 3.2 60 foot one fine morning up at the track

 

[Slippi84]

I read this whole thread and all I have to say is wow.

Project tsi: Calm down man your a dsm wiseman people are gonna talk trash cause they feel like they should be wiseman to so they'll talk about your setup and down play everything you do and critisize your car. You can't be coming on here letting them push your buttons and snaping like that then you look like a rookie which your obviously not. By the way awd traps just fine no need to knock all us awd guys just cause a couple people bad mouthed your fwd. Obviously it's workin fine for shep.

3" piping makin you slow?????? That has to be one of the dumbest things ever. It might slow down spool A LITTLE but a 50 trim is definately enough turbo to fill them pipes so lets just let that idea die.


If your battery is as dead as you say that thing wouldn't run right no matter what psi your at. Your battery is not the problem that's almost as bad a idea as the 3" intercooler piping.

TUNE YOUR CAR. Your not the first guy to come on here and say "50 trim setup done disapointed." You'll notice I put that in quotes cause there is literally a thread named that where the kid just like you had a crapyy tune. I don't know if you have it or not I honestly wouldn't tune iwth just a maft get atleast a safc. **** them knobs on that translator I have it and that thing is for venting and better flow. That's like tuning with a ass dyno . Zero that thing out ( By zero it out I mean put it to the base settings for your car) get an safc and watch the srt-4 owners cry even with there " HALF A LITER" more displacement.

On a less serious note the fact that you have those chrome rims and your a spyder aren't helping you out much.

 

[97gstnick]

ok, i have done a compression test and everything checked out good. i checked for boost leaks and everything good. tune is decent. i do have a theory though, i think that the fact i relocated my battery has something to do with it. i think that maybe i didnt use the proper wires or connectors and my ignition may not be sufficient voltage? is this a dumb idea? if not, how do i go about checking this with a multimeter. and im new with electrics so i need some pretty good directions.. thanks.

 

[1LE]

ok, i have done a compression test and everything checked out good. i checked for boost leaks and everything good. tune is decent. i do have a theory though, i think that the fact i relocated my battery has something to do with it. i think that maybe i didnt use the proper wires or connectors and my ignition may not be sufficient voltage? is this a dumb idea? if not, how do i go about checking this with a multimeter. and im new with electrics so i need some pretty good directions.. thanks.

I find it unlikely that moving the battery is the cause. The power to run the ignition system is minimal compared to many other accessories. I just don't think it would cause the car to be slow. If it was bad enough, I suppose the car might run rough, but even before then I'd expect that you'd notice that the headlights wouldn't work

 

[97gstnick]

I find it unlikely that moving the battery is the cause. The power to run the ignition system is minimal compared to many other accessories. I just don't think it would cause the car to be slow. If it was bad enough, I suppose the car might run rough, but even before then I'd expect that you'd notice that the headlights wouldn't work

alright man, thanks for the input. i guess that does make some sense.

 

[EauBenite]

ok, i have done a compression test and everything checked out good. i checked for boost leaks and everything good. tune is decent. i do have a theory though, i think that the fact i relocated my battery has something to do with it. i think that maybe i didnt use the proper wires or connectors and my ignition may not be sufficient voltage? is this a dumb idea? if not, how do i go about checking this with a multimeter. and im new with electrics so i need some pretty good directions.. thanks.

Your battery has nothing to do with voltage when the engine is running. The alternator does.

 

[MaNGiNa24]

Wow. I am F U C King (escuse my french but its really starting to piss me off) sick and tired of hear "your car should be faster" BS. You have AWD, I do not, I have NO LSD, and no setup of stiff suspension in the rear, so my car squats horribly, which hurts traction. Even w/ slicks I can only manage 1.9-2.0 60's right now. Not 1.7's like you AWD guys. I can spin the tires on the highway at 70mph. When my turbo hits, it hits hard, and pulls all the way to redline. Whereas the srt turbo pulls hard down low then falls of, so he doesn't spin all the way through. I am sick of getting PM's all day long about "Your car should be faster, this and that", and "I did this w/ only this mods BUT on AWD.", ETC, ETC. Stop it, Im sick of it. Try stepping into my car and controlling its torque steer and running it straigt down the track while trying to get a decent launch. On top of that I still to this day have a Horrible tune on my car. I can't hold decent boost to get a good tune on, which is why I am going external this winter.

So please, stop telling me my car is not fast or should be faster. Maybe you could do better then me, well thats great, I don't care its my car, not yours. When I get my high 11 sec timeslip next season I will post it for you all to see.

However, unlike you AWD guys, I love my trap speeds. Besides, w/ a FWD, trap speeds are more important any day rather than ET's. I give mad props to FWD guys that run high 12's or low 13's at 115mph or higher. Thats insane of a trap for that ET. If he could hook up thats easily a low 12 sec run.

Your car should be faster

Just kidding, anyone who takes the challenge of trying to get a FWD to be that fast deserves a clap and a pat on the back. Apparently kids haven't driven in a high HP fwd car, shit's defnitely not a walk in a park.

Anyway, check your fuel and tuning. If your car is still slow get a logger and log every aspect of the car possible. Check for boost leaks (BIG ONES) and exhaust leaks.

 

[InjenTalon96]

with the mods that u have done to ## car i dont blame you for thinking it was slow. even though you have a stock clutch u can feel the slowness. i know ppl that have 50 trims on there cars and they are garbage. the spool pretty damn slow, ide say get some cams and some head work to make the thing spool faster, other then that, i duno maybe a 50 shot to make it a little bit faster. or just get rid of that turbo, honestly, a old frank20g would pull harder then what u have.

 

[MaNGiNa24]

with the mods that u have done to ## car i dont blame you for thinking it was slow. even though you have a stock clutch u can feel the slowness. i know ppl that have 50 trims on there cars and they are garbage. the spool pretty damn slow, ide say get some cams and some head work to make the thing spool faster, other then that, i duno maybe a 50 shot to make it a little bit faster. or just get rid of that turbo, honestly, a old frank20g would pull harder then what u have.

I'm drunk and clearly this is the most ignorant post I've read in days. Go do some research, there are a few 50 trims in the 11's on pump gas fool...

 

[97gstnick]

. well guys, i tuned my car a bit and was running about 19lbs,(spiking to 22). and it felt pretty good. i just dont know if it should be faster? maybe its as fast as it should be? i guess maybe i had more of an expectation? hmm.

one of the things that got me doubting the power it was makin was the fact that my stock clutch is still holding up strong. i have heard people say keep it at low boost because it will slip. but i was just lookin in the forums and some guy on here is makin 468whp! on stock clutch. so maybe it can hold more than believed..?

i know my car needs to be tuned better, but i completely refuse to have someone else do it. i am doing it ALL by myself. if its slow, then its slow. i dont care, i just like to do my own artwork. but i dont mind advice. im gonna keep messing with it and try to work little things out. i know i gotta do some basic maintenance on it too.

 

[97gstnick]

I'm drunk and clearly this is the most ignorant post I've read in days. Go do some research, there are a few 50 trims in the 11's on pump gas fool...

!

 

[Slippi84]

50 trims are garbage ????? Wow talk about hersay and misleading. I don't knwo anyone that has owned a 50 trim that would say their garbage. Granted this guy got beat buy a srt-4 but did you ready his post he didn't even know how to set the gm maft so of course his car isn't gonna run right. Hell that's like getting a chip for 550's when you have 660's and wondering why your not running right.

Step one ACTUALY BUY 50 TRIM!!



Step two TALK ABOUT 50 TRIM!!!