4G64 Build

[delta448]

I'm looking for suggestions about my engine build. This is going to be sort of a long term project for me.

I've torn down the 4G64 I got out of a rear-ended 03 Galant. It looks like it's in pristine condition, no signs of wear anywhere. BTW, had one hell of a fight with the crank sprocket retaining nut, spent more time fabbing a tool to hold the sprocket in place than I spent on the rest of the entire teardown. Only thing I'm stuck on, I haven't quite figured out how to remove the dipstick tube from the block if anyone knows anything about that... does it just pull straight out?


The shortbock I have planned is:
.040 overbore (87.5mm) Wiseco's
Eagle H beams
ARP head and main studs
ACL main and rod bearings
Topline block gasket set, freeze plugs, front cover and oil pump
Balance Shaft Elimination
Unorthodox Racing tuner series crank pulley
Energy Suspension motor mount inserts

And now the questions:

1) I'm assuming a 4G64 Cometic HG will be okay with the .040 overbore, y/n?

2) So I need a decent machine shop nearby to hot-tank, deck, overbore and plug the oil passages in the deck for me. Anyone know of or have an experience with a good machine shop for engine work near northern WV or southwestern PA?

3) I'm still debating the whole machining for piston oil squirters issue right now, and still researching on which oil pan I can safely use. Any opinions on the squirters or pan?

4) I'm going to be mating my mostly stock 2g head to the 64 block, the only question I have there is whether the 7-bolt ARP studs will fit correctly without machining anything?

5) I'm also still trying to decide which turbo to use. If any of the turbo gurus could give me some guidance here, I'm thinking that a 50 trim size or slightly larger would be right for my needs, something like the FP 3052 or upcoming FP 3150. I've also looked at the FP 3065, PTE 5031RLE and I'm considered the upcoming PTE 3231RE when it becomes available. I'm really hoping to use a ball-bearing turbo right now, but other suggestions are welcome. I'm looking for spoolup as quick as possible, high efficiency and the potential for a max of 425-525awhp. The final engine displacement should be about 2405cc with the .040 overbore if that helps. Again, suggestions are welcome.
Anyone have good/bad experiences to share with any of these turbos on a stroker or 2.4?

Here's some pics I took before the engine was completely disassembled.

 

[delta448]

Never thought I'd see the day when nobody would want to talk about an engine build on this site.

 

[turbosax2]

Here's some pics I took before the engine was completely disassembled.

Link doesn't work.

 

[twinkiemobile]

1.) I believe that Cometic has head gaskets at different sizes that you can pick up
2.) If it's a 7 bolt then you'll need to have passages plugged up, if it's a 6 then you're ok.
3.) Oil pan you can use the stock turbo oilpan and just extend your drain line. As for piston squirtirs, you don't need them as it seems you're going with a fully foged piston/rod combo, i'd worry more about oil pressure issues from removing the B/S shaft and/or squirtirs
4.) Obviously you'd have to use the matching head bolts depending on the block. if you have to use the 6 bolt short block then you'd have to enlarge the holes on the head to accept them by a tiny bit, if you're using 7 bolt block head studs then you're ok.
5.) As for turbos i've had good experiences with FP. however, the fp30xx's are CHRA which i don't believe is the same as ball bearing.

That's all i can tell you from the information i gathered, as i was going to build a 2.4 myself. but changed plans. should anyone notice an error feel free to correct me.

 

[delta448]

Link doesn't work.

Hmmm... works for me? -I'll edit the first post and upload the pictures directly.

 

[delta448]

1.) I believe that Cometic has head gaskets at different sizes that you can pick up
2.) If it's a 7 bolt then you'll need to have passages plugged up, if it's a 6 then you're ok.
3.) Oil pan you can use the stock turbo oilpan and just extend your drain line. As for piston squirtirs, you don't need them as it seems you're going with a fully foged piston/rod combo, i'd worry more about oil pressure issues from removing the B/S shaft and/or squirtirs
4.) Obviously you'd have to use the matching head bolts depending on the block. if you have to use the 6 bolt short block then you'd have to enlarge the holes on the head to accept them by a tiny bit, if you're using 7 bolt block head studs then you're ok.
5.) As for turbos i've had good experiences with FP. however, the fp30xx's are CHRA which i don't believe is the same as ball bearing.

That's all i can tell you from the information i gathered, as i was going to build a 2.4 myself. but changed plans. should anyone notice an error feel free to correct me.

So, what can be done besides porting the oil relief hole to relieve excess oil pressure?

It's a 7 bolt. Has the newer split thrust bearing design like the Evo's 4G63, so no crankwalk worries and a direct bolt-in with the motor mounts.

Also, taken directly from FP's site: "The heart of the FP30 series turbochargers is the Garrett Ballistic Concepts GT30 cartridge, or CHRA (Center Housing Rotating Assembly). These are great cartridges, full ball bearing design lets them spin in a light breeze."

Thanks for the reply, it's appreciated.

 

[brute]

The FP 30xx's use Garrett's GT30 CHRA, meaning they are ballbearing. I suggest the 3065, hands down. You could also try a something in the PTE SC61 or even just a Garrett GT35R.

 

[JWoodley]

I plan on undertaking the same project within a few months. Here's a link I've been reading up on:

http://www.extremeevolutions.com/4G64_buildup.htm

 

[delta448]

Yes, I have seen that page. Pretty informative, will undoubtedly help me out a bunch. The only real difference with mine is that I decided to try to keep my 2G head since currently it's the only one I have, and since the air velocity will be higher for better low end which is one of my concerns. It's also nice that the head should be able to use the same studs that are correct for the block without any machining, but I haven't seen a definitive answer about that yet.

-Derek, what rpm would you speculate that I would be spooling the 3065 at with this engine when it's completed? I've heard a lot of praise for the 3065 but always thought it was a little over-the-top for my goals.

Thanks for the responses fellas.

 

[brute]

Strokers have an ungodly amount of low-end torque to begin with. That's why they're arguably the best street motor. You shouldn't be concerned with low-end, but flow up top doesn't matter much anyway because it's not like you'll be spinning the stroked motor to 9000 rpm...

Andy has a 2.3L with a 50-trim on it. In my opinion, a larger turbo would be better, but it's all up to how you want your car to perform. A 3052 will be able to reach your goals, but the 3065 flows more and only costs another $50. It leaves you a little growing room, if you know what I mean. Between the 50-trim, 3052, and 3065, I'd say your full spool will be between 3000 and 4000 rpm, depending which turbo it is. Either way, that's relatively fast for that large of a turbo.

The other option is the GT35R. Here's a small chart for comparisons:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[JWoodley]

Yes, I have seen that page. Pretty informative, will undoubtedly help me out a bunch. The only real difference with mine is that I decided to try to keep my 2G head since currently it's the only one I have, and since the air velocity will be higher for better low end which is one of my concerns. It's also nice that the head should be able to use the same studs that are correct for the block without any machining, but I haven't seen a definitive answer about that yet.

-Derek, what rpm would you speculate that I would be spooling the 3065 at with this engine when it's completed? I've heard a lot of praise for the 3065 but always thought it was a little over-the-top for my goals.

Thanks for the responses fellas.

I'd go with the 1G head. The extra .4L should be able to give you the bottom end you want. I plan on going with a 1G head, +1mm valves, FP3x or FP4s, Kiggly Beehive Springs, and a few other goodies.

 

[PokinatchaPunk]

Unorthodox Racing tuner series crank pulley

FluidAmpr Crank Pulley...It'll help alot

 

[delta448]

Unorthodox Racing tuner series crank pulley

FluidAmpr Crank Pulley...It'll help alot

Yeah, wasn't too sure about the pulley, but thought that an underdrive of some sort might be helpful to add. I don't use the AC much or draw a lot of power off the battery. What specifically will the fluidamper pulley help with, vibration/balance alone or will it act as an underdrive as well? I don't know much about that particular piece.

 

[brute]

The stock crank pulley is a harmonic balancer. It uses rubber to dampen the harmonic oscillations that come natural on all engines, however, four cylinders are especially bad for them. When people get a underdrive pulley like the Unorthodox unit, they do not realize that these pulleys are just solid aluminum. They do not dampen the crank oscillations, and they will cause damage.

Certain companies started releasing aftermarket crank pulleys that do work like the stock harmonic balancer; Fluidampr, for example, uses fluid instead of rubber to dampen the crank motions. ATI also makes a piece called a Super Harmonic Damper.

 

[delta448]

I'd go with the 1G head. The extra .4L should be able to give you the bottom end you want. I plan on going with a 1G head, +1mm valves, FP3x or FP4s, Kiggly Beehive Springs, and a few other goodies.

The main reason I didn't consider using a 1G head is because it will require lots more machine work in order to use, I will have to buy or pull one and I am trying to stay within a fairly strict budget. The studs are a different diameter with an older head and would involve drilling and/or re-tapping. Then there is also the issue with re-fitting the cam angle sensor and port matching the intake manifold unless I bought an older one of those too. I just don't think it would make enough of a difference to me for the costs and issues I'd have to deal with.

 

[Cs4g63]

The main reason I didn't consider using a 1G head is because it will require lots more machine work in order to use, I will have to buy or pull one and I am trying to stay within a fairly strict budget. The studs are a different diameter with an older head and would involve drilling and/or re-tapping. Then there is also the issue with re-fitting the cam angle sensor and port matching the intake manifold unless I bought an older one of those too. I just don't think it would make enough of a difference to me for the costs and issues I'd have to deal with.

You should only have to make the holes in the head bigger for the studs.

 

[Strm Trpr]

I know this thread is 2 yrs old, but I'd like to know if the 3g Eclipse 4G64's and 8G Galant 4G64's will swap into 2g DSM's using a 4G63 head?
The oil pans seem to look different to me.
So does the front case.
I know they're 180* out, but everyone says the 2g motor mounts will fit.