Frankenstein 4g64 hybrid build questions

[jimbob_843]

Alright, im new to the dsm tuners so be easy. Im in the process of building a 4g64 hybrid. Im basically swaping the bottom end from my 95 gst (7 bolt) and putting in a build 4g64 block(7 bolt) . Im gonna be using manley forged pistons and rods on a stock crank. Anyway, to the questions....
Im almost sure of this but will a 4g63t oil pump fit the 64 block as long as there both 7 bolts?
Will the 63t oil pan fit the 64 block?
Which timing belt should i use?
And one last thing, im thinking of going with some oil squirters just to be safe, but would it be a waste because im only wanting to get about 350hp?
Thanks


-Jimmy

 

[monster4g63tawd]

what did you get your 7 bolt out of?

 

[knochgoon24]

You may find this link helpful. It goes through his 4g64 build up.

7-bolt 4G64 buildup and swap with 1G head

 

[jimbob_843]

I cant exactly remember because it was just a quick buy ad on craigslist but i think the guy said it came out of an 01 eclipse. Its a SOHC 4g64 7 bolt. Ive already got it all torn apart and now im waiting on some pistons+rods to come in. I was just trying to get some more info before i get too deep into the project and realize i got the wrong part. I read a thread on here and a guy replied and said that the oil pumps wouldnt matter if they were both the same bolt(6,7). But the guy posting the thread said that he was wrong because his didnt work right. So who to trust?? Im not so worried about the oil pan i can just stop being lazy and drop the one i got and see how it lines up. Also, ive read about some oil porting mods to lower oil pressure. 1- bore out OFH and 2- bore the head stud hole in the corner of the block. Question is would the oil pressure be too low if i did both and if so which one is better to do in my case?

thanks for helpin

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

2000 and newer are rotated 180* like and Evo. You may run into an issue with this.

Keep us posted.

-Oliver

 

[jimbob_843]

I think you are wrong pal. See for yourself.





Google Image Result for http://www.sunrisejdmmotors.com/images/engines/TQbvFzq4Pat6.jpg

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

I think you are wrong pal. See for yourself.





Google Image Result for http://www.sunrisejdmmotors.com/images/engines/TQbvFzq4Pat6.jpg

if you click HERE you will see the engine bay of a 2000 eclipse. Pal.

 

[jimbob_843]

Alright alright ill go with your answer but how would i be able to tell the difference in the blocks? Would the engine blocks be the same and just the mounts are different because ive eyed the engine mounts and it seems like it would mount just right. And is a 2g so there is no front mount on the engine the front mount is on the tran. Correct?

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

Alright alright ill go with your answer but how would i be able to tell the difference in the blocks? Would the engine blocks be the same and just the mounts are different because ive eyed the engine mounts and it seems like it would mount just right. And is a 2g so there is no front mount on the engine the front mount is on the tran. Correct?

The way I would tell is to locate the plate where 4G64 should be stamped onto the block, once that is located you will be able to tell because that plate faces the front of the car. This will give you a reference point for the orientation of the block. if you have pics of your actual block post them for me. Also Mike said he would buy your core if it's a 2000+ block and we have a 2g 2.4 almost ready to go.

-Oliver

 

[SpawnedX]

Im almost sure of this but will a 4g63t oil pump fit the 64 block as long as there both 7 bolts?

Yes, same oil pump.

Will the 63t oil pan fit the 64 block?

Yes.

Which timing belt should i use?

They make 4G64 w/ 4G63 head timing belts, but not Kevlar ones. You can use a 4G63 timing belt if you modify the tensioner by shaving the pin.

And one last thing, im thinking of going with some oil squirters just to be safe, but would it be a waste because im only wanting to get about 350hp?

Personal preference. I machined them into my 4G64/63 Head build.

 

[SpawnedX]

2000 and newer are rotated 180* like and Evo. You may run into an issue with this.

Keep us posted.

-Oliver

Doesn't matter, block is exactly the same.

 

[costas14]

dick

 

[SpawnedX]

dick

I see. Well I'm a dick for not helping and a dick for helping.

 

[jimbob_843]

Alright thanks for the answers. Ill post some pics on the profile once i get a chance. Give me a couple of days to take the engine out of the car and ill post some pics of the 64 (hopefully) mounting up perfectly.

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

Yes, same oil pump.



Yes.



They make 4G64 w/ 4G63 head timing belts, but not Kevlar ones. You can use a 4G63 timing belt if you modify the tensioner by shaving the pin.



Personal preference. I machined them into my 4G64/63 Head build.

They do not make a 4G64 with 4G63 head timing belt, Mitsu makes a DOHC 4G64 timing belt. You will need the DOHC 2.4 cam sprockets or adjustables, the cams will need to be degreed in for proper timing using the adjustable sprockets as the timing marks are different. I would not recommend modifying a timing tensioner when you have to buy a belt anyway, just buy the proper one.

I would not worry about squirters, I am running a 6 bolt 2.3 in a NT block. With forged internals they are not needed and they only rob oil from your crank.

Doesn't matter, block is exactly the same.

According to your expertise, this would make an Evo block the same as a DSM. We all know this is not correct. We use the 3g Eclipse 2.4 for Evo builds. Pics below

DSM Block

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Evo Block

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[SpawnedX]

I'll take your word for it, as your pictures are not going to show anyone that something doesn't line up. The housing "hip" as you call it looks like the cast is different, but I have no way of confirming that the bolt holes don't line up.

Though, I know a friend of mine bought a 2G 4G64 block for his Evo, I use friend lightly because I don't keep in touch with him, but he never told me he had a problem.

As for the belt, I have definitely seen 4G64 w/ 4G63 head belts for sale, just they are not "performance" belts. I will find a link.

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

I'll take your word for it, as your pictures are not going to show anyone that something doesn't line up. The housing "hip" as you call it looks like the cast is different, but I have no way of confirming that the bolt holes don't line up.

Though, I know a friend of mine bought a 2G 4G64 block for his Evo, I use friend lightly because I don't keep in touch with him, but he never told me he had a problem.

As for the belt, I have definitely seen 4G64 w/ 4G63 head belts for sale, just they are not "performance" belts. I will find a link.

you will see some other issues with it. power steering bracket mounting points, oil pan ect. I think I know the belt you are talking about and it is a legit mitsu DOHC 4G64 belt regardless of how they advertised it. It's probably easier to explain it to people as a 4G64 w/ 4G63 head belt as 4G46 DOHC were not common (1 year of production here) however they did use a 2g style head.

 

[SpawnedX]

you will see some other issues with it. power steering bracket mounting points, oil pan ect. I think I know the belt you are talking about and it is a legit mitsu DOHC 4G64 belt regardless of how they advertised it. It's probably easier to explain it to people as a 4G64 w/ 4G63 head belt as 4G46 DOHC were not common (1 year of production here) however they did use a 2g style head.

That's possible. I've been told the blocks are the same. As a DSM owner w/ a 2G Spyder 2.4L block I have never had the need to research it in depth. I make no claims to be a knowledgeable on Evos.

You are correct about the belt it seems.

When it came time for me to do my timing belt I used this thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/maintenance-repairs/350100-timing-belt-4g64-w-63-head.html

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

That's possible. I've been told the blocks are the same. As a DSM owner w/ a 2G Spyder 2.4L block I have never had the need to research it in depth. I make no claims to be a knowledgeable on Evos.

You are correct about the belt it seems.

When it came time for me to do my timing belt I used this thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/maintenance-repairs/350100-timing-belt-4g64-w-63-head.html

The Galant block thru 98 *I would need to double check* is the same as the Spyder as well. 7 bolt cranks are all the "same" they all interchange but I think the Evo had smaller counterweights. Well time for me to run, see you guys Monday.

 

[jimbob_843]

Alright guys i will be the one to see if it can be done!! Ive started taking the engine apart, if i get enough time it should be out by tuesday. Been busy. Anyway im droppin out the 63 and gonna mount up the 64 to make sure its all perfect before i send it off to the machine shop. No way am i gonna go off of what has been just said and not proven so wish me luck!! I will post pics for comparisons and all.

 

[jimbob_843]

Alright run into my first problem. Got the tranny out and desided to see if it would mount to the 64......well it doesnt. The only bolts that line up are the two on the top. Im thinking about dropping the frankenstein idea and just rebuilding the 63 with forged internals and end the hassles. Any ideas from here on out would help. Pics are on the pro

 

[whe3ls]

did you get a wide block then?

 

[jimbob_843]

Idk for sure what engine it is. The tag says GK4243. Im guessing that the block is from the 2000-up eclipse which is just a little different. I dont think my pics loaded right on my profile but the two bolt holes on the front side of the 63 are about an inch farther apart than on the 64 so it deff doesnt line up. So..... im thinking of a different type of build.

Should i just rebuild the 63 with forged internals, stock crank. Or, Build a 2.3L stroker. Note this is going to be a daily driver but i want to be able to have some power.

 

[nuclearr]

I would take the crank out of the 64 and build a stroker.

 

[jimbob_843]

Ok so im just going to sell the apparent evo/newer eclipse 64 block that i have and get the one that i need. If anyone is interested let me know.

So... I need to find a 64 out of an eclipse(less than 2000)? And also does the galant also have the 64 that i need?? If so What are the years and or block tag numbers? Thanks for any help kinda aggrivated that the block wasnt the right one!!