4G63 Motor Debate

[dsmotors09]

Alright, this is a debate I am having with my cousin. We all know how the 4G63 was classified as the fastest 4 cylinder with Brent Rau's 0-200 1/4 at 6.86, and John Shepherd etc. Well he is saying that without the turbo, the 4G63, would basically be worthless. Because with the turbo, it would be in the N/A class. So, is the 4G63 worthless, without a turbo?

 

[yesItsdsm]

If anybody thinks the NT 4g63 is less reliable than the turbo model thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The NT motor will outlast the turbo version in the long haul everytime. Boost is great stress on a motor. Our turbo cars were built to handle boost but that doesn't take away from the fact that turbos add extra stress to a motor.

In regards to how fast the NT can be, anything can be quick if you have the right amount of money and knowledge. There will be an obvious limit to how much power a naturally aspirated 2 liter 4 banger can produce.

You can't really compare the 4G63 to Honda motors beyond displacement and amount of cylinders. Hondas and other 4 cylinders were lucky to have VVT in the 90's, Where as DSM's did not. Considering that I would say the 4G63 is one of the most (if not THE most) powerful 4 banger of the 90's. Now Imagine if we had Mivec back in '89

 

[CTP]

B18C, so I guess it's turboed.

A B18C is a GS-R (the VTEC motor) as opposed to the B18B which is a non-VTEC LS. If it's turboed you wouldn't have much of a chance. Stock block turbo GS-R's can easily make 350-400whp.

Anywho, as for the original question... the 4G63 would be the most miserable NA motor ever. The rotating parts are extremely heavy, the valvetrain wasn't meant to rev, the head sucks, etc etc etc. The motor was built with turbo in mind and so I give a huge @ the guy that said it could make 250whp and trying to compare it to a K-series. WTF

 

[yesItsdsm]

A B18C is a GS-R (the VTEC motor) as opposed to the B18B which is a non-VTEC LS. If it's turboed you wouldn't have much of a chance. Stock block turbo GS-R's can easily make 350-400whp.

Anywho, as for the original question... the 4G63 would be the most miserable NA motor ever. The rotating parts are extremely heavy, the valvetrain wasn't meant to rev, the head sucks, etc etc etc. The motor was built with turbo in mind and so I give a huge @ the guy that said it could make 250whp and trying to compare it to a K-series. WTF

The only turbo GS-R in my town is slow I'm gonna need some proof that turbo GS-R can make 350-400hp on a their stock blocks. Their compression is way too high for me to buy that. I would say anything over 250hp from a turbo is pushing it on that motor.

Turbo for Turbo DSM's are way better than Hondas simply because our cars were built for turbos. And as for you saying our cars weren't meant to rev, How do you explain the 7500 rpm redline? Thats higher than most 4 bangers with the exception of Honda's rev whores.

 

[neoviper]

It sounds to me that your cousin is just a really, really jealous person. If he is gonna say that a DSM wouldn't be fast without a turbo, you can tell him that a Honda wouldn't be fast without VTECH, hell even tell him that a V8 wouldn't be fast if you threw away half the pistons in it ( but wait, than it would be a 4 cyl. right? EXACTLY just like taking the turbo off a DSM puts it in the NA category ) The fact of the matter is we DO have turbo's and that makes us fast. If he wants to cry because he can't keep up, tell him to strap on a turbo and come see us. Besides, who's dumb enough to bring a knife to a gun fight?


P.S.- Speed kills, so drive a honda and live FOREVER!

 

[neoviper]

And as for you saying our cars weren't meant to rev, How do you explain the 7500 rpm redline? Thats higher than most 4 bangers with the exception of Honda's rev whores.

Exactly, anyone who says that the 4g63 engine can't rev high needs to take a better look at John Shepherds car and see what he's revving to

 

[Boo5t_Addict]

This whole discussion is just retarded. Your cousin is basically saying that Arnold wouldn't be strong without his huge muscles. Well, no crap. Let him think whatever he likes. You chose a stock turbo platform, and he did not. His car is built around other characteristics than yours. But you still made the better choice. Next time he opens his mouth, just tell him you're keepign the factory desing (forced induction) so who cares? It's how smaller motors make power.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I think some (or some's cousin) has gotten beaten by a 4g63 powered ride.......

 

[DSM_6SL2 Power]

I think some (or some's cousin) has gotten beaten by a 4g63 powered ride.......

Probably more then once.

 

[CTP]

The only turbo GS-R in my town is slow

I'm sorry the people you live near fail at life.

I'm gonna need some proof that turbo GS-R can make 350-400hp on a their stock blocks. Their compression is way too high for me to buy that. I would say anything over 250hp from a turbo is pushing it on that motor.

250hp hahaz and you base that assumption on what?

Honda-Tech.com: Forced Induction: Honda-Tech's Highest Horsepower on a Stock Block Thread *OFFICIAL*

My friend's car, tuned by us: Honda-Tech.com: Forced Induction: My stock block GSR turbo - 345WHP@10psi

Honda-Tech.com: Forced Induction: Stock GSR 400whp 92 Octane

Honda-Tech.com: Forced Induction: 11.9 @ 122mph 225 bfg's 323whp 207wtq, stock gsr, 2300lb 92 cx

Honda-Tech.com: Forced Induction: 494hp and 301tq with a stock gsr and PUMP GAS!!!!

The list goes on.

Turbo for Turbo DSM's are way better than Hondas simply because our cars were built for turbos.

Wrong. Better heads will always flow better. Add a turbo and you're really making power.

And as for you saying our cars weren't meant to rev, How do you explain the 7500 rpm redline? Thats higher than most 4 bangers with the exception of Honda's rev whores.

7,500rpm isn't high at all. That's what most single cam Hondas rev to. Just because the motor CAN rev higher doesn't mean the head, piston speed, or reciprocating mass is going to support it making any power up there. I suggest you research what it takes to build a high power NA motor.

 

[Jordanbutter]

I think every one is missing the point you, can tell him he is right. If you took the turbo off your talon and tried to drive it, you wouldn't get down the street with out saying forget this. But taking the turbo off and driving it is like you telling him to take his vtec out and run his car at 1000% rich. Just saying.

 

[4GTSiMAN63]

A tractor/trailer rig without the trailer is worthless for hauling.
An automatic transmission without the torque converter is worthless for daily driving.

The 4G63 is not an engine with a turbo tacked on. The engine and turbo are designed as a system. Remove the turbo and the compression ratio is way too low for useful power. Remove the turbo and the cam profiles are just ignorant. Remove the turbo and the big heavy cast iron block is too heavy to carry around.

Add a turbo to a N/A Honda engine and …. Ah you get it.

I agree

 

[empie1]

In confused about this argument...Are you trying to argue that the 4g63 is good without a turbo?Tell your stupid, jealous friend that our engines kick ass cause the can take a lot of psi and abuse and produce awsome hp/torque for a low amount of money.Obviously with out the turbo its not gonna be that fast, its a 4 cyclinder with 2 liters of displacement.

 

[empie1]

The only turbo GS-R in my town is slow ..

Tht kid must be an idiot or have a lot of boost leaks cause a turbo gs-r would rape your car the way it is. Your obviously biased toward hondas.Dont get me wrong, I cant stand 99% of them, but a kid around here has a 93 civic hatch with a boosted gsr engine in it that runs 11.7...go run him and tell me what you think about boosted hondas.And fyi, he hasnt invested more than 4 or 5gs into the car.

By the way, please tell me your not running a t25 with all those mods you have

Its really annoying how some dsmrs think the 4g63 is the best engine ever placed on this earth..I love our cars bu t they have just as many problems as lots of other cars.We all know a modded dsm is MUCH less reliable than a stocker, its not invincible.They are strong no doubt, but they arnt gods gift to the automotive world.I dont understand how any car enthusiest can hate on any n/a 4cyl that produces 200 +hp stock (rsx-s, s2000)....just cause it doesnt have a turbo on it doesnt mean it doesnt deserve respect.Unless its riced the f*ck out...than they deserve the abuse.

 

[6 bolt dreams]

this hole thread seems more like a pissing contest, and why would anyone try to run a turbo engine without a turbo????? It makes no sence what so ever the compresion ratio is too low, im not saying you couldnt but why??? I mean i know im new to dsm and imports in general but thats just common sence.

 

[6 bolt dreams]

I mean if u want a non turbo car buy one, if u want a turbo car buy one or just be like me collect the whole series the only 1g i dont have is a gsx, which i really want but cant find one around where i live. It makes me sad

 

[DSM_6SL2 Power]

I think it's funny how were talking about a expensive ass motor that you have to swap in to your ###-ass honduh, that can make 400whp on the stock block.......... and your point is?

The 4g63 is our stock engine, that we dont have to swap in, and people have made 500hp, and 30+ psi. Theres my point.

I am biased toward honduhs, because the only way to make them fast is to swap a different engine in and boost it, and by the time thats done, youve spent over 10k. I really doubt some guy ran 11.7 with 4 or 5g's.

 

[empie1]

I think it's funny how were talking about a expensive ass motor that you have to swap in to your ###-ass honduh, that can make 400whp on the stock block.......... and your point is?

The 4g63 is our stock engine, that we dont have to swap in, and people have made 500hp, and 30+ psi. Theres my point.

I am biased toward honduhs, because the only way to make them fast is to swap a different engine in and boost it, and by the time thats done, youve spent over 10k. I really doubt some guy ran 11.7 with 4 or 5g's.

Eaither your a moron or your a 17 year old or both. Either way your spewing incorrect, stupid opinons.On top of that, its funny that you go out of your way to mispell honda.....choad...Anyway, heres a little fact for you...your NOT putting 30psi or 500hp on your stock block (for very long anyway).You dont have a invincible engine.Guess what? 90% of the people with 10 or 11 second dsms have completly rebuilt engines.No one goes with their 96 tsi and runs 11's for a extended period of time (at least not many).
I could give a f*ck if you believe me or not about the 5k.The engine cost 1300 bucksHe ran a 11.7 (I witnessed it).I know for a fact he isnt anywhere close to 10k..Get off your dsm cloud...there are plenty of faster cars out there. I love dsms and will alqays have one, I have been in the scene for the past 9 years of my life, but I respect all cars, when built properly and efficiently.


Oh...and I drive a talon, not a honda. Get your facts right.

 

[6 bolt dreams]

I hate honda's but i dont doubt it honda has been run in indy car racing for how long now? I mean the fact of the matter is with the right amount of money i could make a 4 banger mustang fast, i used to own 1 and for like 5gs i could have made if fast but the i rapped it around a tree messin around in the snow so that was a no go and all my budies were tellin me to by a honda but instead i bought a grand am so thats how dedicated to not driving a honda i am but i still dont doubt that i makes that power.

 

[dehlak]

Yea I did not mean WHP. As what others have been saying, the 4G63 was built for turbo's so having it NA and modding it is basically your apples and oranges of comparisons. Without the turbo it's not really a 4G anymore and the argument is useless because it doesn't really help at all because the motor IS for turbo applications.

Edit: I fully believe the 4G63 IS a reliable motor. Now to back that up, how often to do continuously beat a engine so hard and still have it run and pull as strong as they do? DSM's get a RIDICULOUS amount of abuse and that is what gives them the bad rap(along with a lot of people who abuse not taking care of their car as well)

DSM all the way, but I can't argue that Honda's aren't good...I just don't like them.

 

[empie1]

I hate honda's but i dont doubt it honda has been run in indy car racing for how long now? I mean the fact of the matter is with the right amount of money i could make a 4 banger mustang fast, i used to own 1 and for like 5gs i could have made if fast but the i rapped it around a tree messin around in the snow so that was a no go and all my budies were tellin me to by a honda but instead i bought a grand am so thats how dedicated to not driving a honda i am but i still dont doubt that i makes that power.

Well see thats the difference between you and the douche above, your rational and intelligent and hes not. Its funny how he thinks 5k isnt enough to do anything with!He must be one of those "real" car guys that drops his car off at the local performance shop for some installs...

 

[skatefiend]

I have a 93 n/a and it was beast. I dont know what you guys are talking about, its how you build it. I used forced unduction from the front bumper, straight pipe, no a/c, and bigger cams sitting on top of a new block. I lost one race to this kid I knew. I hung with him until I had to shift, 96 honda hx or someshit like that. Vtech bastards pushing thier rpms past 9,000.

 

[6 bolt dreams]

And as far a respecting hondas gos its not that i dont i just that every kid around here owns one and i want to be different i realize how many things u can do to them just like every other kid on my block but im not every other kid. But you can do just as much to a small block chevy to and no ones trashin them so i do respect them i just dont like them

 

[Hideki]

I know I'm jumping on the bandwagon here, but the K20 was designed to make as much naturally aspirated power as possible, and the 4G63 is really just designed to take the abuse of forced induction. While I've wanted to pick up a non-turbo 4G63 1G Eclipse and try and tune it for some decent power, you just can't compare the two engines.

Turbo 4G63 FTW

 

[6 bolt dreams]

Hay i take my car to the shop all the time....................to barow tools and get advice. I dont see the point in bringin my car to any one to work on it, and im not a mechanic im a carpenter. I mean searuslly i dnot really know a hole lot about cars but for instence i spun my rod breaing s im my grand am and now im to my keens in the crank but ill fix versus pay some guy 60 bucks an hour to work on it

 

[empie1]

And as far a respecting hondas gos its not that i dont i just that every kid around here owns one and i want to be different i realize how many things u can do to them just like every other kid on my block but im not every other kid. But you can do just as much to a small block chevy to and no ones trashin them so i do respect them i just dont like them

I agree...I dont like most of them either.But I have more respect for a honda guy that completly changes there whole engine and makes it boost friendly and runs 11s in a fwd than I do a averge dsmer that drops a 18g in their awd and thinks they are the sh1t.It just comes down to respecting a fellow car enthusiest.For me anyway.People that are ricers are just as annoying and immature as people that are like "duuuuhhhh hawndus are stoopid cause thay dont have turbos from the factory.My dsm is the bestes car ever.I can run 600whp on my 140000 mile short block!I hate hawndus duuhhhh"