4G63 Motor Debate

[dsmotors09]

Alright, this is a debate I am having with my cousin. We all know how the 4G63 was classified as the fastest 4 cylinder with Brent Rau's 0-200 1/4 at 6.86, and John Shepherd etc. Well he is saying that without the turbo, the 4G63, would basically be worthless. Because with the turbo, it would be in the N/A class. So, is the 4G63 worthless, without a turbo?

 

[Black95awd]

Alright, this is a debate I am having with my cousin. We all know how the 4G63 was classified as the fastest 4 cylinder with Brent Rau's 0-200 1/4 at 6.86, and John Shepherd etc. Well he is saying that without the turbo, the 4G63, would basically be worthless. Because with the turbo, it would be in the N/A class. So, is the 4G63 worthless, without a turbo?

I have only seen 2 NA 4g63's built, but they were pretty mean for what they were. but for the most part, who builds an NA 4g? they are badass cause you can run a big turbo.

 

[AndrewD5418]

Compared to a v8? Yea..

 

[6 bolt dreams]

Dont really konw but i have both models so ill let you know i a couple of months

 

[talonawdtsi]

thats why these things are so bad ass.. cause you can run such high boost and hp on a 4 banger. i was just reading in a diff. post that stock internals can push 400 hp plus. I'm not an expert. i've been around these things for 4-5 years now. I know they do rock.

 

[tunethis]

It's kinda hard for any 4cyl car to pull really high numbers without a turbo. I wouldn't say it would be worthless. If the 4g63 was built for high compression, it'll still be a beast IMO.

 

[dsmotors09]

He said because it doesn't have forced induction.

 

[bomper04]

if he puts it like that..then all hondas and acuras are nothing without vtec..same concept..don't get me wrong though...4g's are awesome =P

 

[gsxeclipse97]

The same thing could be said for any car that has forced induction. For example the supra, non turbo a v8 would walk it with no porblems but turbo charged its a completely different car. As well for the cobra's that came factory s/c compared to the gt its a much better car.. so really your friend has no argument there.. since you can say that for any car.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Oh quit lying to yourselves, it would be slow as hell with no turbo.

But, they have turbo's so they aren't slow....

 

[dsmotors09]

He was going to get rid of his Celica GT-S, for a Honda with a B18, at first he said the B18 would rape my Talon, but I said if I put as much money in it as he did the swap it would be a different story. Then it brought up the turbo.

 

[bomper04]

b18's put out like what...210 at...what 8000 something RPM? tell him his b18 wouldn't be anything without vtech that they have...but as black95 and gsx pointed out a factory turbo car would definitely be nothing without their forced induction, no doubt about that.

 

[dsmotors09]

B18C, so I guess it's turboed.

 

[mygsx2120]

for a Honda with a B18, at first he said the B18 would rape my Talon,

Part of the reason n/a Hondas are fast is because they are light. A crx weigh can easily weigh under 2,000lbs with a driver. Your 2g will come in about 3,300lbs.

 

[DSM_6SL2 Power]

Your friend is a total moron, end of story.

He's the proto-typical honduh kid. Why doesn't he just throw v8 in it.

 

[dehlak]

The main thing here is that the motor is built to be a turbocharged motor. For example take a V8 and start throwing some serious boost into it and you're probably going to start throwing rods or something. The 4G can take bolt on mods with little to no work (side from fuel) and I am talking turbo's basically(E3B16G, 18G, etc.). If you not gunning for the 7's this motor is godly. Say you're looking to hit the 10's while having DD ability and good looks, you can accomplish this much cheaper than say a 5.0 Mustang or z28 Camaro. I have never in my life seen more free mods that actually help power compared to a DSM as well as the fact that a 1g is dirt DIRT cheap for the performance it gives while still looking nice. A 2G has more varriance in the looks department because of the "rice" but some can look really nice. Camaro's look nice(IMO) Mustangs look like shit(IMO) but they can never beat a DSM in bang for buck while having as much style stock.

P.S AWD for the win, second place RWD(drifting). Also boost is the best because V8's can NEVER get as good gas mileage as a nicely tuned 4G with a big turbo(just stay out of boost and you win)

At a end note really, for modding it's just all about if you like the motor or not. When going for top speed it doesn't matter what motor you have it just matters how much cash you do have. On note of that though remembering a video of a Supra(huge turbo) vrs a Lambo of some sort - there's power and then there is power band.

Edit- it took me over a year to make a post!

 

[dsmotors09]

So, how good can it be without a turbocharger? With just engine internals etc.

 

[dehlak]

As good as any other 2.0L 4 banger thats NA. Basically it's not worth it at all if you wanted to go on that I would suggest the 4G64 opposed to the 4G63. But it's not worth running these motors NA because it's pointless to the point where I would rather a V8 any day if I wasn't aloud a turbo.

Edit- to actually be of any help to you I would ballpark and say that im sure you could COULD get 250 HP out of it with a good amount of work(seeing as a stock vtec k20 is 200hp~) I would definatly see 250 HP not being a problem and you would WOULD have to have fwd then because you're really going to want to start saving weight for that power to be any effective.

So to recap NA 4G63 would be bullshit.

 

[DIS1KRAZY]

I have a 3rd gen and a 2nd gen gsx. The n/a are slow as hell.

 

[dsmotors09]

I'm not building a N/T, but he is saying it's nothing without a turbo, i'm trying to prove th 4G63, can be modded out as of any other car, just as great.

 

[bboyalan]

dsm -minus- turbo = power-deprived, sexy, economical, and reliable japanese car.

from there, as mentioned above, you CAN take the bpu road and make some decency. buuuut on the other hand, you can "look fast, go slow" and save money at the pump.

 

[meliketoball]

dsm -minus- turbo = power-deprived, sexy, economical, and reliable japanese car.

from there, as mentioned above, you CAN take the bpu road and make some decency. buuuut on the other hand, you can "look fast, go slow" and save money at the pump.

Ha reliable? Maybe just a little bit. Anyway, I see N/A 4g63s more at the junkyard compared to turbo ones. keekeetz.

 

[dsmconvict]

Same with me, and they're mostly 1.8's . I'll be lucky to find a n/a 4g63 let alone a turbo one in a yard. These motors came pretty stout from the factory. And coupled with the turbo and awd it make one nice vette killer .

 

[99RedGs]

As good as any other 2.0L 4 banger thats NA. Basically it's not worth it at all if you wanted to go on that I would suggest the 4G64 opposed to the 4G63. But it's not worth running these motors NA because it's pointless to the point where I would rather a V8 any day if I wasn't aloud a turbo.

Edit- to actually be of any help to you I would ballpark and say that im sure you could COULD get 250 HP out of it with a good amount of work(seeing as a stock vtec k20 is 200hp~) I would definatly see 250 HP not being a problem and you would WOULD have to have fwd then because you're really going to want to start saving weight for that power to be any effective.

So to recap NA 4G63 would be bullshit.

Are you talking whp, because 250 whp out of a 4g is not going to be that easily. If you noticed, the 420a JUST broke the 200 whp barrier and that was with a ton of time and hard labor put into it. 4 cyl we're just not designed to make high hp NA. The 4g is a boost monster , but if you took the turbo off it would probably be slower than a 420a ( lower compression and such). Just because a honda k20 can make 200 doesn't mean it will automatically be easy for the 4g to make that much power, there are many factors that effect it. Not to mention all of the research on the 4g has been done for boost applications so anyone deciding to make an NA 4g would be pretty much on his own.

Boost is our replacement for displacement. Either that or the fact that most 4 cyl cars weigh next to nothing compared to a 4000lb V8 car. The reason you see more NA 4g's at the junkyard is because people have realized the turbo version is a great tuner car so instead of junking it, it ends up being restored or parted out. No one would waste a perfectly rebuildable 4g car.

I like my car just how it is. It works great as a DD and doesn't look half bad. I think its funny that people are like boo 420A, but what about the guy that drives a rusted early 90's honda as his DD? No one ever says anything to that guy. Not everyone here is a tuner. Some people just use the site for information about things that break, or maintenance, etc... If I wanted a 4g car I would have bought an EVO ( jk don't get butt hurt).

So yes a non turbo 4g is about as useful as a 420a . Which is good enough for driving to work and back.

 

[TunaTalon]

A tractor/trailer rig without the trailer is worthless for hauling.
An automatic transmission without the torque converter is worthless for daily driving.

The 4G63 is not an engine with a turbo tacked on. The engine and turbo are designed as a system. Remove the turbo and the compression ratio is way too low for useful power. Remove the turbo and the cam profiles are just ignorant. Remove the turbo and the big heavy cast iron block is too heavy to carry around.

Add a turbo to a N/A Honda engine and .... Ah you get it.