4g63 evo 8 into 90 TSi how hard?

[malmsteen]

ok so i have a 1990 Talon TSi AWD. i've done motor swaps on other cars like my Porsche 944 from a 2.5 to a 3.0 that "supposedly" bolted right in. I have a 4g63 along with the wiring harness and computer out of an evo 8 along with the trans clutch axles spindles and brakes. because both motors are the 4g63 is it safe to asume that the motor will bolt directly in with some minor modifications (possible clearance problems due to extent of wiring other emission regulated parts ect) and not need to change motor mounts or reposition them? does the trans from the evo 8 carry the same dimensions as the factory talon trans? if anyone has done a similar swap what other problems did you come across. if the trans out of the evo works can i use talon axles so i dont have to change the wheel base and suspension geometry of the car. i'm not so much looking for someone to help put it in or tell me how as much so as i'm looking to find out what unexpected things come up with a swap like this.

 

[tkelly27]

They are 180 degrees off from each other. Basically it will be like swapping any other engine into the DSM other than the original 4g63. This means new engine mounts, figuring out the drive shaft alignment, I'm not even sure the spline counts for the axles are the same. You can't flip it around and use the original engine mounts. From what I understand, evo block does not bolt to the DSM transmission either.

 

[awdmonster1904]

ok so i have a 1990 Talon TSi AWD. i've done motor swaps on other cars like my Porsche 944 from a 2.5 to a 3.0 that "supposedly" bolted right in. I have a 4g63 along with the wiring harness and computer out of an evo 8 along with the trans clutch axles spindles and brakes. because both motors are the 4g63 is it safe to asume that the motor will bolt directly in with some minor modifications (possible clearance problems due to extent of wiring other emission regulated parts ect) and not need to change motor mounts or reposition them? does the trans from the evo 8 carry the same dimensions as the factory talon trans? if anyone has done a similar swap what other problems did you come across. if the trans out of the evo works can i use talon axles so i dont have to change the wheel base and suspension geometry of the car. i'm not so much looking for someone to help put it in or tell me how as much so as i'm looking to find out what unexpected things come up with a swap like this.

It sounds too much work for what it for IMO i would just build the dsm longblock
but if you still do the swap show us i would like to see how is done

 

[DSMTriad]

I say do the swap. You'll have ENDLESS amounts of parts. 1200hp potential, do it it'll be hard but think of the greater good. Question is do you want the Evo 9 MR 4g63 w/ exhaust MIVEC or the EVO X Full MIVEC 4B11?

 

[cruisintalonawd]

any 4g63 from 1990 to 2008 has that potential and endless amount of part for the stock motor.its way more work then you thing. you need to search

 

[DSMTriad]

I know but theres a lot more companies that support the Evo. DSMs are slowly fading I've seen junkyards crush AWDs like they weren't nothing. The Evo is going to be around for a long time vs. the DSM. Thats why i say if he really wanted to do it then go ahead. Its been done but there's a massive amount of work to be done.

 

[HBWaterfowler]

Triad,

I think what Tkelly and everyone else was trying to let you know is, that it has not been done yet. That would be a very profitable swap to figure out. I would love to have the option to put a nice modern 4g63 in there beloved 1G.

But, it can be done (unless proven wrong).

I don't know what your skills are in fab work, if you can do something like this yourself?

I would suggest starting with a nice exstensive internet search; ideas, others progress, details on the swap. Then going to local auto/body shops asking if they can make custom motor mounts for an swap. If they can't do it, ask if they know anyone that can.. You gotta really find these guys out, sometimes they work out of their own home.

I really don't know to much about the diffrences of the new 4g63 vs 1G. But reading a lot about other people doing engine swaps on all makes and models, from what I have read personally, all you would need is the right motor mounts that work, and thats it. You keep the new ECU that comes with the engine in the car and tune (maybe some little mods here and there to make things fit right). There is also some universal ECU that you can plug into any engine, and download the info off their webpage and works perfect.

It would not be cheap, I'm sure. It would cost as much as a brand new EVO to develope this swap for the first time.

Good luck, and let me know how it goes. . . so I can put one in my 1G

 

[DSMTriad]

I don't know what your skills are in fab work, if you can do something like this yourself?

I have little fab skills as of now. But I agree with what everyone is sayin.

 

[HBWaterfowler]

Well, measure the space needed for the EVO 8 4g63. I would assume that it fits.

Get some measurements on where the mounting points are at on a EVO 8.

It would be nice to have a 1G with no motor in it and everything cleared out, so you can mark where stuff needs to go.

Cut some brackets out, bend them, cut/drill them, weld them in, mount engine, mock up everything you need.

Done.

No details...

DSMs are slowly fading I've seen junkyards crush AWDs like they weren't nothing

I have seen a few at the junkyard nicer then mine get crushed too... No money to save it.

 

[crimsonGST]

If you use a 2g N/t it's not nearly as hard seeing as the motors are on the same side and not 180 off like the DSM 4g63. There is a thread in the hangout somewhere's (too lazy and tired too look).

 

[ninesixtwo]

ok so i have a 1990 Talon TSi AWD. i've done motor swaps on other cars like my Porsche 944 from a 2.5 to a 3.0 that "supposedly" bolted right in. I have a 4g63 along with the wiring harness and computer out of an evo 8 along with the trans clutch axles spindles and brakes. because both motors are the 4g63 is it safe to asume that the motor will bolt directly in with some minor modifications (possible clearance problems due to extent of wiring other emission regulated parts ect) and not need to change motor mounts or reposition them? does the trans from the evo 8 carry the same dimensions as the factory talon trans? if anyone has done a similar swap what other problems did you come across. if the trans out of the evo works can i use talon axles so i dont have to change the wheel base and suspension geometry of the car. i'm not so much looking for someone to help put it in or tell me how as much so as i'm looking to find out what unexpected things come up with a swap like this.

A 2.5l to 3.0l swap is nothing compared to swapping an evo engine into a DSM. Did you swap in the 944S2 or 968 motor?

 

[tkelly27]

I think what Tkelly and everyone else was trying to let you know is, that it has not been done yet. That would be a very profitable swap to figure out. I would love to have the option to put a nice modern 4g63 in there beloved 1G.

No, we're trying to say it's not a flip and slip, or grind this, make that
97 Eclipse gs Evo V// swap - Automotive Forums .com Car Chat

That is the 420 where the engine mounts are on the same side as the evo.

What I said was exactly what I wanted to say, which is, it's about as easy as any other engine you'd want to swap. EVO, LS1, honda, BMW, whatever. They will all require extensive fabrication a lot of planning and custom modified parts.

There is no good reason to do this, unless you have a 420a DSM, or you are totally bored and have a ton of money and time to waste. DSM engines are more than capable of anything the evo motors can do
Magnus Motorsports - Race Team

There are FAR fewer evos than DSMs. There were about 2.75 million DSM's. Only evo production numbers I can find puts them about 12,000 for the 8's. Keep in mind the 10's are "world" engines with nothing in common with the 4g63. DSM's aren't going anywhere, no matter how many they crush

If you are planning on it, ECU wise, you'll have to rewire everything for the EVO ECU and will be dumping fistfulls of dollars into it anyway, why not go full stand alone and enjoy the bliss that is speed density.

 

[4G63_Attack]

Assuming if the new evo's 4g63 has the same motor mounts as the dsm's. You can mount it the same way as the old 4g63 but you will run in to the following problems:

turbo/exhaust is by the firewall and intake will be up front. If you are planning on using the transmission too the transfer case will be stinking out of the front bumper and if you modified a new set of wheels, you can drive your car backward and have one gear.

j/k funny thou

 

[tumtum411]

I say do the swap. You'll have ENDLESS amounts of parts. 1200hp potential, do it it'll be hard but think of the greater good. Question is do you want the Evo 9 MR 4g63 w/ exhaust MIVEC or the EVO X Full MIVEC 4B11?

Just to let you know mivec only works on the car it came in if you put even a evo 9 motor into the evo 8 the mivec would not work

 

[Hideki]

The only successful EVO 8 swap I've heard of they used a base model 2G with the 420a (the engine mounts are similar, compared to the 4G63 equipped DSM's) It really does seem like a PITA and I'll have to jump on the bandwagon and agree it's a lot more budget friendly to build your existing 4G63. Good luck either way.

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[No_Skillz]

Evo 8 and 9 motor is a mirror image of the 4g63 in our cars.

How hard?

Real hard.

 

[JusMX141]

4g63 evo 8 into 90 TSi how hard?

Why would you work so hard to replace a 4G63 with, well, a 4G63? Other that just being able to say that you did it, there wouldn't be much of a performance gain. You're better off unloading the Evo goodies and putting that money into building your current engine.

If you really wanted to get creative, put the Evo motor into an RX7 or an older S10.

 

[andy4g63]

I've seen Evo motor in 3G Eclipse. I think it was bolted to the 3G tranny. Second, someone mentioned above, but I think Evo and 7 Bolt motors are identical. I've seen 2G 7 bolt, used in a Evo, built by Pruven/Dan Cokic. I saw that in Turbo magazine.

The first case - Evo motor in a 3G, i've seen in a Turbo magazine too. Not so sure, but the name of this shop was Devo tuning. Try it.

 

[sik4g63]

this is something that i had looked into. i had called one of the local speed shops around here and they said that it would be kinda a waste of time and money. they told me it would be somewhere around 8k-10k for them to do it. i thought that was kinda high priced, but if its somethin that you wanna do go for it.

 

[DSMTriad]

Just to let you know mivec only works on the car it came in if you put even a evo 9 motor into the evo 8 the mivec would not work

Um if you make a complete swap including ECU and wire harness it will.

 

[Sam@RRE]

My question is why?

If you had that sorta money and skill, build a full 6bolt long block and call it a day. The DSM 4g63 has the same potential and any Evo 4g63. Aftermarket suppport is still out there. Only reason I'd want and Evo motor is becuase I want and Evo Chassis, a lot less squeeky and clunky and miles more comfortable than a DSM. Sorry guys, I've betray you but get into one and drive it. I'd love one for a DD but my Talon will never be replaced.

 

[malmsteen]

basically i'm trading the motor and trans out of my camaro for all this, i have the skill to fab up the mounts and everything, its more about knowing the diference in the 2, if they are both the 4g63 motors can parts from the evo motor such as the head, turbo, manifolds, fuel system and ect be swapped over to my block, if not then i'm going to do the swap.

 

[dsm59]

My question is why?

If you had that sorta money and skill, build a full 6bolt long block and call it a day. The DSM 4g63 has the same potential and any Evo 4g63. Aftermarket suppport is still out there. Only reason I'd want and Evo motor is becuase I want and Evo Chassis, a lot less squeeky and clunky and miles more comfortable than a DSM. Sorry guys, I've betray you but get into one and drive it. I'd love one for a DD but my Talon will never be replaced.

I'm gonna agree and add on. I'm not super familiar with the 4g63 other than knowing specs yet. I just bought my first DSM a couple months ago. But the principle of doing a swap like this is the same across the board for all enthusiasts. Even if you have the money to spend, even if you have the knowledge and the tools, what is the point? It's one thing to take the body and chassis of a car and put your favorite engine in there because of the lack of aftermarket for the original car, but the potential for a 1g 4g63 is so tremendous. At the end of the day, the feeling of a turbo spooling, the feeling of taking a corner hard, the feeling of building up a car is what most tuners are after. Rebuild what is already similar to an EVO engine anyway and be proud of it. Can you imagine what the frustration would be like with the potential problems you run into and have such a hard time fixing and throwing tons of dough at?

But then again, if you don't care about any of the things I just mentioned, and you have done so much of the tuning and swapping and whatever else with the original car, and you're up for a new challenge, then go for it I guess.

 

[tkelly27]

Is it that they are both 4g63's that is throwing you off? They have the same engine code, but they aren't the same engine. The head may bolt to the block, but like has been mentioned, the exhaust will be in the firewall. The CAS is different, the thermostat housing will be different too. The intake on the stock head will put the inlet in the fender if the bolt patterns match up, I don't know that the exhaust manifolds have the same bolt pattern, I do know the arrangement of the turbocharger will require custom lines and the down pipe outlet is aimed right into the front engine mount. Flipeed 180 degrees doesn't mean you can flip it back
http://icup.com/d/96-3/evo-engine-new.jpg

There is only one reason to do this, to be unique. There is nothing wrong with that, just know you're not going to be going any faster by putting EVO components on the DSM. You won't be saving yourself any time or energy either.

 

[HBWaterfowler]

The head may bolt to the block, but like has been mentioned, the exhaust will be in the firewall. The CAS is different, the thermostat housing will be different too. The intake on the stock head will put the inlet in the fender if the bolt patterns match up, I don't know that the exhaust manifolds have the same bolt pattern, I do know the arrangement of the turbocharger will require custom lines and the down pipe outlet is aimed right into the front engine mount.

That's the case if you tried to use the stock mounts.

He said he can fab mounts, so that won't be a prob. Obviously you would need custom downpipe, upper and lower intake piping. You would have to remount everything in the engine bay too. It's not that hard, but I'm sure there would be different things that will stop you cause you will need to figure out how to do something. If you can bunny hop all the little snags, then it's easy.

The hardest part is having room somewhere to do the swap, a 1G and the prep work done, and a EVO 8 motor, tools, and the time. If these things come easy to you, I say GO FOR IT! Otherwise you might just want a build 1G engine.

I think both ideas sound fun and you would end up with a fast car.