420a no start condition (frozen coolant)

[omgeddie]

Okay guys, really need some help here. i have a 98 gs minor bolt ons. intake header, catback not much else. its a daily beater, anyways it got really cold out here in philly last week, i parked the car at night it was running fine. went to start it in the am, i had a very slow crank, very slow, so i popped the hood (knowing my battery is good no lights were on, battery is new) started to check a few things, i noticed it was filled with nearly 100% water instead of coolant. my rad hoses were frozen solid, as was the overflow tank. i warmed up a bit during the day, and i tried to start it again, now its cranking fast. faster than normal, it doesnt sound like the motor is even turning but it infact is. i have spark, i have fuel. so i pulled the timing cover, the belt is completely loose. its not even touching either cam gear. so here lays my question... what couldve happened, obviously the water was frozen in the pump. and either the belt snapped the pulley off, or jumped off the pulley. if i were take it to the shop to have timing and water pump done, will that solve my issue? it was cranking for a while, but never started, what are my chances of internal engine damage? i paid $1500 for the car. is it even worth having it fixed.? please help guys, thank you
Eddie.

 

[RallyEclipse98]

It's really hard to say if your valves have been damaged. The motor would have started if the timing was just off a tooth. But since the belt was so loose, who knows how far you were really off when the engine was cranking. I imagine a shop would charge near $1k to do the water pump, timing belt, tensioner, appropriate pulleys so you decide if it's worth the money.

Make sure to check 2gnt.com for more 420a information.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I would start a compression test when you can.

 

[omgeddie]

but the timing belt is off the cam gears which would throw off the comp test no?

 

[grothe3297venge]

I would either start thinking the worst because a loose belt and cranking for who knows how long on an interference engine is a pretty bad ordeal.

But really you should do the work yourself, with some time and careful reading, you can tackle a water pump and timing belt and components in a weekend if not less. You can also put the belt on and risk more damage while trying to do a compression test and leak down test, your choice really.

So if it were me, I would just take the timing belt off, get the head taken off and inspected (don't want to risk any further damage that can occur), and replace all timing components while the head is getting checked out. If anything is wrong with the head, replace what is needed (ex - valves, valve seals, and etc.). Once all is in check, assemble and be done with it!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Grab a manual to help with the work ahead.

 

[RallyEclipse98]

Grab a manual to help with the work ahead.

I hope you mean factory service manual not a haynes or chiltons.

And for what grothe3297venge said, I too agree you could do the job yourself. However if you don't have any under the hood experience, I doubt you can do the job in just one weekend. In total you're looking at doing a lot of stuff to your engine.

Here's a list of what I replaced when I did a proper job of changing timing/water pump/ head gasket: (This list is not complete).

- Timing belt
- Timing belt tensioner
- Tensioner pulley
- Idler pulley
- Water pump w/ gasket
- Felpro MLS Head gasket
- Intake mani gasket set
- Exhaust mani gasket
- Downpipe gasket
- Copper coat spray
- Valve cover gasket w/ spark plug well gaskets
- Valve cover sealant: VersaChem Super Blue II, type 777
- Upper and lower rad hoses
- Head bolts
- Alternator belt
- A/C, P/S belt
- Coolant fan switch sensor
- Coolant
- Oil (Pennzoil high mileage non-synthetic 5w 30)
- Oil filter
- Thermostat w/ gasket
- Coolant temp sensor
- Get head resurfaced, pressure checked, valve guide inspection


Not just a weekend job for most people. Unless you have a buddy with experience and an autozone just down the street.

Needless to say, you cannot just slap on a new timing belt and pretend like it never happened. Heck, getting the crank pulley off the car took a few attempts with different methods (different pullers, using a bolt and air gun, heat, etc.)

But with all that said, the job is very rewarding and can be a lot of fun in the end! I too recommend you do it yourself, just understand it takes time and money to do it properly.

 

[92AWDHX40]

When pulled my head and did a timing belt job I used my Haynes manual.

 

[RallyEclipse98]

When pulled my head and did a timing belt job I used my Haynes manual.

I guess I just strongly prefer the factory manual. Although that thing is so detailed I always find my mind wandering and exploring different exploded views of the car just to see what they're like haha.

OP: Two annoying parts of the project:

1) getting the passenger side motor mount plate off (see 2gnt for a how-to)
2) pulling off the crank pulley (use a chrysler puller and rattle gun. Press it back on using bolt and possibly washers)

 

[dsmcrzy]

Before I put any money into parts I would make sure the water freezing didn't crack the block. I had a friend who filled his car with water in the summer but forgot about it when winter came. Long story short that engine never ran again.

OP I would (if you want to keep the car) start taking it apart as the others have said.

 

[RallyEclipse98]

Perhaps consider an engine swap if you can find a 420a cheap enough.

 

[omgeddie]

I am mechanically inclined. I just have a lack of tools and the weather in philly is really crappy. So I broke down and took it to the shop. I'm just praying a good 10 mins of trying to start it didn't fudge the valves up. I'm at $750 now for entire timing kit/water pump and tow. Pray for me guys!

 

[jayson427]

I would start a compression test when you can.

Really? I wonder about you sometimes. What the hell does a compression test have to do with frozen coolant or a loose Timing belt? If anything it would be a leak down test needed not compression.

And to the op when you get your car back I would suggest using coolant with an additive to prevent freezing. Make sure you're running the proper oil for winter too. Good luck.