No start condition, timing question

[Brokstatus420aT]

Im trying to check the timing on my 420a because of a no start condition. I have the car up in the air and heres my problem. I turn the crank pulley with a rachet till the timimg marks line up. Then i look up at the adjustable cam gears and the marks line up. Then ill turn the crank a full revolution, line up the crankshaft and look up at the cam gears. this time the marks are off about a 3/16 of an inch. It will kept doing this time and time again. My timing is off right?

OK an heres some aditional questions i have. The cam gears i have, have three marks on them. Two are just marks. The other is a mark with degree hashes on either side. the two (red arrow) marks are the ones that line up with the opposing camgear eventually. The hashed (blue arrow) marks never line up with eachother. Is this the way its supposed to be? The cams are degreed, however I dont know how to read the cam gear. i think its -3* intake and -2* exhaust. Let me know if that sounds whacky ill put a picture of what they really look like. I made a picture of what the cam gears look for refferance

 

[eclipsalon]

does the car at least turn over or does it jus do absolutly nothing when u turn the key?

 

[rlacasse1]

The timing marks should line up every other revolution. So line them up, turn the crank two full revolutions, and if they don't line up then it is out of time.

They will never line up if you only turn the crank one revolution.

When I time the car if I have an cam mark that looks like it won't line up perfectly, I advance it a little. That way when you turn the crank it will take out the slack, I don't know if that makes any sense to you or not. I suck at explainig things.

 

[Brokstatus420aT]

Well it does line up after two full revolutions. Im gonna give it another shot tommorow. By going off what you said about turning it two full revolutions im pretty assured its in time. I asked my boss the today, he said the two marks are there so when you use a straight edge to check if they are alligned you have somthing to referance too. And just because you asked. The motor cranks and cranks but no matter how long or how many times you try it will not fire up. The compression is 150-170 across all cylinders. Its getting spark to all plugs. An injectors are coming off as soon as I have time to be ohmed and tested. I had a thread awhile back an everyone seemed to assume a headgasket failure. Im still weeding through the field of issues, so who knows

 

[rlacasse1]

Well, looks like your timing is set then.

Does it sound like it at least sputters and is misfiring. Or does it just sound like it's doing nothing?

 

[Brokstatus420aT]

When I try cranking it over, Its trying to start but it just cannot fire up. Its difficult to explain but its seems like its not firing more then 2 cylinders an its out of sequence. instead of firing 1-3-4-2. Its like its just 1 an 4. Remember thats just an explination, NOT fact. I was cranking it for a minute once and a very loud bang went out the exhaust, I pulled the plugs and cylinder 1 had some smoke in it. Kind of like it was dumping fuel and it finally got lucky and lit that cylinder. Maybe this helps pinpoint the problem? Im gonna be pulling injectors in a minute and testing them.

Heres some basic info on what ive done/ checked:
Compression is 150-170 across all cyl.
Spark to all cyl.
Power within spec to all sensors.
Replaced Coil with brand new one.
Replaced ecu with known good one.
Replaced crank angle senor with known good.
Fuel pressure is good (Just very old gas).
Checked timing and its good.
Thanks for the interest/help.


EDIT: All the primary injectors ohmed to 12 ohms. The additional 4 ( for the portfueler) wont be needed during start right? O, and does anybody know an "easy" way to pull them without removing the upper intake manifold. Everything seems to be in the way

 

[rlacasse1]

Are you sure the firing order is correct.

And do you have o2 sensors plugged in. My old n/t ran like absolute @ss when it did run because the rear o2 sensor was jacked up.

 

[Brokstatus420aT]

Ill have to lift it up to check the rear o2. But i know the front upsteam is brand new. It was even wired up by a performance shop in my area. Less then 500 miles old. The haynes book says 1-3-4-2 And my plug wires are in the correct order. Heres somthing interesting, I just put in brand new plugs and cranked the engine for a minute then pulled them out one by one. None of them had a noticable amount of fuel on them and only barley smelled of gas. It could have been my hands too. I believe its a fuel problem now. My aeromotive FPR has a guage that reads 50-60(i dont remeber) after the fuel pump primes. And theres fuel in the lines, My way of relieveing fuel pressure was to just crack open the lines near the fuel rail with a rag in the other hand.

 

[white92talontsi]

Firing order should look like this when looking at the engine with the hood up

COIL-
1 4
2 3

ENGINE-

1 2 3 4

 

[Brokstatus420aT]

^^^Yes sir, Thats the way my car is.

I just put the original ECU back in the car and cranked it over. It cranked for about 8 seconds then got one cylinder to fire ( I got excited haha)

 

[210carlos]

well if your timing seems right on but how many times did you try you timing cause if you really dont get it right the first time you can bend the intake valves and then it wont start check compression in your cylinders normaly its the first one closes to cam gears

 

[Brokstatus420aT]

Ive checked timimg probly 14 times in the last two days. It lines up every two full revolutions. And compression is 150-170 across all cylinders.

I think the second ecu is garbage. When i went back to the original i pulled the plugs after cranking and they were soaked. Im gonna siphon out the old gas and put some fresh 93 in there. Probly gonna help it along with some starter fluid when the time comes.

 

[210carlos]

Is your first cylinder tdc?

 

[Shake_Zulla]

When I try cranking it over, Its trying to start but it just cannot fire up. Its difficult to explain but its seems like its not firing more then 2 cylinders an its out of sequence. instead of firing 1-3-4-2. Its like its just 1 an 4. Remember thats just an explination, NOT fact. I was cranking it for a minute once and a very loud bang went out the exhaust, I pulled the plugs and cylinder 1 had some smoke in it. Kind of like it was dumping fuel and it finally got lucky and lit that cylinder. Maybe this helps pinpoint the problem? Im gonna be pulling injectors in a minute and testing them.

Heres some basic info on what ive done/ checked:
Compression is 150-170 across all cyl.
Spark to all cyl.
Power within spec to all sensors.
Replaced Coil with brand new one.
Replaced ecu with known good one.
Replaced crank angle senor with known good.
Fuel pressure is good (Just very old gas).
Checked timing and its good.
Thanks for the interest/help.


EDIT: All the primary injectors ohmed to 12 ohms. The additional 4 ( for the portfueler) wont be needed during start right? O, and does anybody know an "easy" way to pull them without removing the upper intake manifold. Everything seems to be in the way

How did everyone miss this? How olds the gas?

Which injectors stock or portfueler? 2 bolts on stock fuel rail, might have to take upper section of intake off. For the love of god replace the gas! 93 octane for turbo please.

 

[Brokstatus420aT]

^^^^^ haha its funny what people dont read before they post.. the gas is OLD my friend. Im talking a year give or take acouple monthes (long story). I worked out the bugs on my own i believe. Like you said im gonna pump out the old gas an put in fresh 93. Think itd be smart to run it with injector cleaner right away? Im marking the thread as solved now. Thanks for the help fellas

 

[Shake_Zulla]

^^^^^ haha its funny what people dont read before they post.. the gas is OLD my friend. Im talking a year give or take acouple monthes (long story). I worked out the bugs on my own i believe. Like you said im gonna pump out the old gas an put in fresh 93. Think itd be smart to run it with injector cleaner right away? Im marking the thread as solved now. Thanks for the help fellas

Haha yeha didn't mean to come off as a jerk to those who posted I would put some injector cleaner with a full tank of 93 in it and check the fuel filter while your at it. Congrats on getting it running man.