$3000 with a 420a

[TotalEclipse420]

OK so by now most of you have probably seen my posts about going turbo. If i were to come across 3k (lets not go into detail on where) what would you guys do with a stock 420a motor/turbo wise. I want some oppinions and ideas. Basically what I'm asking is what would you guys do with the motor as far as a rebuild, and what turbo would you want to go with? Basically I want more that 5 lbs of boost without having to worry about my motor blowing.

The car has an auto tranny and a 2.5" catback.

At this point it seems logical to sell my car, put 3k with it, and buy a gst/x, but I've got so much work in my car that I just want to keep it.

 

[95TalonOwner]

Check out Howell automotive. They have tons of stuff for the 420A. They have rebuild kits, performance kits, stroker kits and so on. You can even buy a crate 420A motor if you really want to.

http://www.howellautomotive.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=117

 

[TotalEclipse420]

Awesome link. This is what I'm thinking about:

2.2 Forged Stroker Kit
8.6:1 Compression Pistons
Prothane Motor Mounts
Crane Street Cams (for turbo engines)
AF/X UDP
Screamin Demon Ignition Coil
AEM Adjustable Cam Gears

All for a howellauto price of 2300.75 (with free shipping )

That leaves me 700ish for parting together a turbo (yes I know it will probably cost me a little more than that, but if i worked my numbers right, I should have enough to pay for the rest of the turbo stuff by the time everything else is done, not to mention the time I drive the newly built motor to allow it to break in.)

T3/T4
FMIC
Upgrade Fuel System
All that good stuff (My turbo parts list is almost done, and so far I'm at about $875. So I figure a rough, generous estimate would put me at about $1000 for everything.)

Having said all that, I'm putting a rough estimate at around 3500 bucks.

Edit: I just realized I left off the forged rods. I don't see forged rods on howellauto. Am I blind and not see them or are they just not there? Where can I get some good ones for a good price? Also please feel free to throw out some alternatives to what I have. I'm still searching for parts so this is in no way engraved in stone.

Edit: Ignore the last edit, i found the rods

 

[Kingsstar]

Howell is alright, but i have dealt with them and so have others and it took a while to get my parts. I used to own a neon and everyone on neons.org would not recommend them because it took forever for them to recieve there parts.
I would do a little research first and if you decide to go with Howell, call before hand and make sure they have the parts in stock, or else it will take forever.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Yep, their slow processing is exactly why I never bought anything from them. I got all my parts from Concept Illusions. Exile Racing is another good source.

You said $1000 is generous for a turbo kit. Trust me, it'll cost more than that. No matter how good you are at finding deals on eBay, it'll cost more than that. There are about a billion little parts that you don't realize you need until you're knee-deep in the install.

 

[cs82685]

if you wanna save some money from howell then forget about the cams and cam gears for now, many people go turbo and stick with the stock cams.

 

[TotalEclipse420]

Yeah I already decided to drop the cams and cam gears. I figure i can always add those later without pulling the motor so...they can wait. And as far as the turbo thing goes, I'm alowing 2000 bucks for parts. Not to mention a few 12 packs . Who here is boosting more than 5-8 psi on a 420a? I'd like to know your set up and what it cost you. I've been researching all this stuff for like 2 weeks and the info seems endless...

 

[cs82685]

I've been researching all this stuff for like 2 weeks and the info seems endless...

That's because it is

Since you're planning on a built bottom end, what are you planning on using for your fuel system?

 

[XMasta19]

hmm...I think you could stand to continue researching until your eyes are bleeding, then take a little porn break and go at it again. Ooops, is that what I did


Anywho, the whole turbo conversion gets expensive way faster than you're planning, trust us on that one I'd make sure you got you're bottom end built, don't worry bout that stroker or serious head work yet, then verify you can get everything for your turbo setup before buying other nick nack mods like a coil pack. You better figure out what fuel management you want for turning up the boost...I'd probably say portfueler for the ease of use if you wanted, or do your research and then some and get yourself the mac daddy megasquirt haha

 

[Rickyb]

How much power would an avergae turbo kit for the 420a add?
j/w.

 

[BigRand]

How much power would an avergae turbo kit for the 420a add?
j/w.

Well that question is a little too broad, depends on your turbo, exhaust size, tb size, and over all conditoin of the motor.

From my own personal experience using the star Kit, at 5psi, I put down 175whp, and my baseline was 120whp (non turbo).

Add 2 more pounds of boost and I put down 193whp, this was with a bigger 60mm TB, and 2.5" exhaust and factory cat.

 

[4UH8ERS]

if you buy good quality fittings, gaskets and bolts. you can easily spend $200.00 on them alone.

 

[TotalEclipse420]

What if I were to build my bottem end now. say stock compression, but bored 40 over with weisco pistons, drop the stroker, just forged pistons/rods, motor mounts, and UDP. Thay way i can be driving/breaking it in for a few months until i get my funds back up some, then start turboing. How much PSI can i run SAFELY on forged stock compression internals?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

30psi? 40psi? Once you go forged, all that really matters is fuel management and knock suppression (water/alcohol injection) in your case since you'll be using higher than typical compression for a turbocharged engine.

 

[4UH8ERS]

30psi? 40psi? Once you go forged, all that really matters is fuel management and knock suppression (water/alcohol injection) in your case since you'll be using higher than typical compression for a turbocharged engine.

please 40psi? I run that on 87 octane pump gas without knocking. all i needed was a venom control unit.

btw: that was a joke paul do not take that statment seriously its not possible.

You should do some research, you need to focus on all your supporting mods so you can achieve the most power out of the each psi. more power at a lower psi is the goal so your turbo and all your seals/gaskets stay happier and live longer

 

[VelocitàPaola]

please 40psi? I run that on 87 octane pump gas without knocking. all i needed was a venom control unit.

Misinformation! Misinformation!

I'm gettin' out the ban stick!

 

[Blitzeclips]

I don't care what you say, but you need WAY MORE then $3000 for a built bottom end and turbo, for it to run properly and reliabley.

I spent less than $9K altogether INCLUDING my car. You need to do some research.

 

[Superman_gs]

Post Classifieds in the Classifieds Section.

 

[KazooGS-T]

I don't care what you say, but you need WAY MORE then $3000 for a built bottom end and turbo, for it to run properly and reliabley.

Not neccessarily true at all

 

[4UH8ERS]

Not neccessarily true at all

^..hmm well i guess you could always buy a bunch of used bottom end parts WTF, and slap on ssautochrome turbo and knock off everything else. for that much.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Not neccessarily true at all

Yeah, because you've turbocharged your 420a before, right? You've been down that road with the experience of taking on the project, right?

I see you have made 1 post. So, since you seem to know, let's see you make a list of products and parts totaling $3,000 or less... I want to see EVERYTHING included in a bottom end, turbo, and everything needed for it to run indefinately.

Do some research.

 

[dr1665]

I just deleted the step by step to doing this in favor of inspiring some thought in you guys this afternoon. Think about what it takes to turbocharge a car... any car.

MUST HAVES:

• turbo
• manifold
• more fuel
• intake piping
• exhaust piping
• BOV

Stop for just a minute to think outside the DSM discussion forum mindf*ck and really think about this. I bet, as some of you read the list above, you're thinking not only of a specific part, but also where you would buy it. You might think, "Super 16G from HRC, log manifold from eBay, RC injectors, 3" downpipe and Greddy Type RS BOV." That's because you're all so used to reading everyone say the same things over and over again. Those aren't MUST HAVES. Those are NICE TO HAVES. Do you want to boost your car today or tomorrow?

Are you seeing how looking at the list of MUST HAVES and how generic it is might open the doors to other options which could save you money on a custom kit? Do you NEED a GT35R (haha - I know, I know. The answer is a strained, YEEEESSSS! but play along, okay) or do you need a turbo with minimal to no shaft play that spins freely and still has a couple years of dependable service left in it? Now that you're just looking to find a turbo, how many cars ever came turbocharged from the factory? How many of those cars might be in a local junkyard? See where this is going?

Now, think about the NICE TO HAVES:

• intercooler
• larger turbo
• more efficient manifold
• even more fuel
• larger intake piping
• larger exhaust piping
• "cool" BOV

Once you've found out how much your MUST HAVES will run you, then you can start shopping for the NICE TO HAVES. An intercooler is NICE TO HAVE, but you don't HAVE TO have one (for small boost). A new FMIC is NICE TO HAVE, but a used SMIC will allow you to turn up the boost too, won't it? 1000cc injectors and a full-on MSnS system would be NICE TO HAVE, but you could get away with some Ford "red tops" and an SMFU, right?

See where this goes? I know that I could do a bottom end rebuild and turbo system install for under $3000. In fact, given the shit I've got lying around my garage, I could likely boost my car for under $500 right now, but I'm just not interested in going that route yet. (No. None of it is for sale, either.)

You just have to be creative and remove the blinders is all. Good luck to you guys.

 

[Blitzeclips]

I just deleted the step by step to doing this in favor of inspiring some thought in you guys this afternoon. Think about what it takes to turbocharge a car... any car.

MUST HAVES:

• turbo
• manifold
• more fuel
• intake piping
• exhaust piping
• BOV

Stop for just a minute to think outside the DSM discussion forum mindf*ck and really think about this. I bet, as some of you read the list above, you're thinking not only of a specific part, but also where you would buy it. You might think, "Super 16G from HRC, log manifold from eBay, RC injectors, 3" downpipe and Greddy Type RS BOV." That's because you're all so used to reading everyone say the same things over and over again. Those aren't MUST HAVES. Those are NICE TO HAVES. Do you want to boost your car today or tomorrow?

Are you seeing how looking at the list of MUST HAVES and how generic it is might open the doors to other options which could save you money on a custom kit? Do you NEED a GT35R (haha - I know, I know. The answer is a strained, YEEEESSSS! but play along, okay) or do you need a turbo with minimal to no shaft play that spins freely and still has a couple years of dependable service left in it? Now that you're just looking to find a turbo, how many cars ever came turbocharged from the factory? How many of those cars might be in a local junkyard? See where this is going?

Now, think about the NICE TO HAVES:

• intercooler
• larger turbo
• more efficient manifold
• even more fuel
• larger intake piping
• larger exhaust piping
• "cool" BOV

Once you've found out how much your MUST HAVES will run you, then you can start shopping for the NICE TO HAVES. An intercooler is NICE TO HAVE, but you don't HAVE TO have one (for small boost). A new FMIC is NICE TO HAVE, but a used SMIC will allow you to turn up the boost too, won't it? 1000cc injectors and a full-on MSnS system would be NICE TO HAVE, but you could get away with some Ford "red tops" and an SMFU, right?

See where this goes? I know that I could do a bottom end rebuild and turbo system install for under $3000. In fact, given the shit I've got lying around my garage, I could likely boost my car for under $500 right now, but I'm just not interested in going that route yet. (No. None of it is for sale, either.)

You just have to be creative and remove the blinders is all. Good luck to you guys.

OH MAN. Here we go..
Brian, all the items listed above (1st bullets) are of course needed for boosted cars. In fact,some of those aren't even needed. BOV? Nope, open the wastegate. Exhaust? What exhaust? You don't NEED an exhaust. You can't assume we are all wired to hahn hahn hahn items for our cars (420a). To tell you the truth, if you don't know what is needed for ANY turboed car, you shouldn't be doing it yourself.

Still, you don't prove the valid point here. Yes you still need these items and yes, maybe you can build a bottom end(notice NOT BUILT) with parts in your garage, but where do all these parts come from? Your ass? The sidewalk? These things aren't given away for free. Which means you, or someone else had to pay for it some time or another. Theyre specific to application. Which means you can't go pick up any piston and rods, oil pump, etc., you have to purchase these things for the car it was MADE for. Like I said before, make me a list of parts FROM THE GROUND UP, not laying around, for the bottom end alone. ALSO, making it reliable for daily driving.. Nope, it's not going to happen without ATLEAST $1,000.

So let's move onto the turbo kit shall we? THIS is where you don't need specific parts per application, but it would help if you did. You can of course build a kit yourself, put it on yourself, and pay for it yourself with less than $1000. Will it be the best? No. Will it work? Yes. Will it last and be reliable? Probably not.

I don't think you all understand. I said a BUILT bottom end, complete turbo kit (custom or whatever you want to do) and it has to be reliably driven. No parts from a scrapped 420a will be forged or strong enough to handle boost because the 420a was not built TO handle boost. THis means you need a forged piece SPECIFIC to application. Once again, you must be doing ALL the work yourself for this to happen. Motor swap, turbo install, etc...
For it to become reliable, it needs to be done right.

I see what you're saying Driggs, and I;m sure there are others with the 16g hahn mindset, but there are others whom aren't. Built bottom ends aren't cheap. Turbo parts and items aren't cheap. These things aren't as conveniant to others as they are to you. Yes you can do a bottom end rebuild and turbocharger install for less then $3000, but it would be EXTREMELY difficult to make that budget, and either way, its still not a BUILT bottom end like said earlier...

 

[VelocitàPaola]

OH MAN. Here we go..
Brian, all the items listed above (1st bullets) are of course needed for boosted cars. In fact,some of those aren't even needed.

He didn't say those things were needed, he said those were "nice to have."

Eithery way, let's not argue semantics...

If you've got the parts laying around, or you can get them for free (or close to it), you can feasibly build your bottom end and slap together a turbo kit for under $3,000.

If you're an eBay auction fanatic or you know exactly where to get the right parts, and you only opt for the neccessities, you might be able to pull a rebuild/turbosystem for around $3,000 (give or take $500).

If you buy most everything brand new, and go for all the bells and whistles, expect to pay at least $6,000.

I think for most of us, we spent at least $2,000 on the turbosystem, and another $2,000 on the rebuild. Between all the miscellaneous parts and things you don't account for in the planning stages, the costs add up to around $5,000.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

...now i guess if you wanted to. (which is practically pointless) You could buy a cheap used basic basic turbo kit for around 1000 or less and shoot for 7lbs of boost in your BUILT bottom end? for under 3 grand.

anything is possible, but you have to consider the post makers desires before you make an irrelevant post to the current situation at hand.

Well maybe he wants to build his bottom end in preparation for some better fuel/engine management system later on down the road... that's what I got from his posts. Believe it or not, it's not that crazy of an idea: I'm still at 8psi on an FMU with a built bottom end.

How about some clarification, TotalEclipse420?