$3000 with a 420a

[dr1665]

Oh man. The nit-picking!

Bottom end:
$400 - FORGED pistons w/ rings (NEW)
$400 - FORGED rods (NEW)
$150 - Mopar lower gasket kit and head gasket (NEW)
$150 - oil pump (NEW)
$150 - water pump (NEW)
$100 - rod/main bearings (new)
$100 - machine work
$50 - (8) quarts of cheap oil and (2) Fram PH16 oil filters.
$1500 FORGED BOTTOM END (If you can't scrape up another $20-100 for new belts, spark plugs or don't have a jug of coolant in your garage already, then you need to park it and wait.)

Turbo system:
$75 - used 14B
$75 - 14B rebuild kit (good as NEW turbo for $150)
$50 - used DSM SMIC
$150 - Vortech FMU (NEW)
$150 - log manifold (NEW eBay or NEW DIY)
$125 - Walbro 255lph fuel pump (NEW)
$200 - intercooler piping
$50 - 1G DSM BOV
$50 - fluid feed/return lines
$50 - boost gauge (mechanical - NEW)
$150 - EGT gauge (NEW)
$50 couplers
That's $875 for a turbo system that will EASILY put out upwards of 14lbs (since we're just throwing PSI around like some kind of end-all measure of power - ridiculous). You get a freshly rebuilt 14b (which I do believe has put some 4G63 guys into the 12s) that will last a good long time. You get an intercooler allowing you to raise the boost up above a couple pounds, and larger injectors to support the additional boost. You also get a decent battery of instruments which which to monitor your system to ensure you don't blow things up.

Right there is $2,375. If you can't take that FORGED BOTTOM END and boost it reliably with all the above-listed parts AND OVER $600 to cover anything I might have forgot (considering I could really give a shit), then you need to save up the ten large it costs to have a reputable shop build it and tune it for you. Then set aside a couple hundred a month thereafter to pay the shop to maintain it, since you obviously lack any mechanical aptitude.

I almost left BOV out of the first list of MUST HAVES, but I didn't want to make it easy for people to chime in with something stupid like, "You have to have a BOV." Essentially, you do not. WRC cars in the eighties did not have them and, although the LACK OF A BOV WILL RESULT IN TURBO DAMAGE, factory teams had boxes of turbos to use.

It always comes back to your goals. If you want bling and a 600hp turbo system, then you need to invest the time and money into building a proper engine and tuning solution. "I want to run more than 10psi" is a ridiculous statement to make, as it really means dick. PSI IS NOT A MEASUREMENT OF POWER - ONLY A MEASUREMENT OF PRESSURE. YOU NEED TO KNOW VOLUME IN ADDITION TO PRESSURE COMBINED WITH AFR IN ORDER TO GET ANY IDEA OF POWER.

Okay. Back to my lurking...

 

[4UH8ERS]

edit again: and driggs psi is not a "measurement of power" well no crap! fuel, compression and cfm per psi efficiency is what will be the determinig factor. It doesnt take a genious to figure out that a 14b at 8psi and a super20g at 8 psi are going to have remarkably large differences in power gains (even without proper tuning), but you must understand that psi is important to mention when picking a turbo for the efficiency of it. "spit"

 

[VelocitàPaola]

. I can tell you havent done any turbo component shopping! and btw who the hell rebuilds there bottom end and does $100 in machine work. thats like saying please hone my block so i can go home and wash it with some dawn and a sponge?

hmmm. you have to get the block and bedplate acid washed
polish the crank.
hone the cylinders and maybe a bore (depending on the piston application)
always have the head surface checked before re-install and new bolts for the head will be required.

Watch what you say 4UH8ERS... you have to respect other members and their opinions; especially Wisemen and Mods. Let's try to keep this a friendly, technical argument. You're not getting on anyone's nerves, and no one should be getting on yours.

All I'm going to say is that you don't absolutely need to polish the crank, hot tank the block, or balance any of the rotating assembly. A cylinder hone/bore (~$100) will do if you're going for the minimum amount of work/money.


Now, no more speculation. Don't post here until the original author comes back with more details.


By the way, my machinist says he washes down all of his blocks with a hose and dishwasher detergent after the hot tank to get rid of any residual chips/grime.

 

[dr1665]

By the way, my machinist says he washes down all of his blocks with a hose and dishwasher detergent after the hot tank to get rid of any residual chips/grime.

Haha. Let's all take a deep breath and chillax, fellas. My point is not to argue or point anyone out as being stupid or unqualified to offer his own advice, but to challenge preconceived notions about what is and is not required in such a project as this. This thread is coming along nicely, right on the edge! Heated discussion is good for making advances!

As a point of reference, the last time I had my bottom end machined, I paid $450 for the following services:

• hot tank/cleaning
• bore/hone
• piston/rod/crank balancing
• plasti-gauged rod/main bearings
• gapping of piston rings
• assembly of the short block

With this in mind, I would hope someone on a tight budget could find capable machine work for around a Benji. You can gauge your own bearings, gap your own rings, and put it all together on your own with a little patience and information found on this site. A full balance and blueprint is wonderful if you can afford it, but I've found that quality forged bits like pistons and rods are decently balanced from the factory and you're not going to see much benefit to a balance unless you have the capability to rev the engine past stock rev limiter. (Putting one into another level of the game.)

The most important piece of advice I can offer to ANY DSMer considering the purchase of ANY part or mod is to, as Stephen Covey puts it, "Begin with the end in mind." Until you know where you want to go, you really can't get a good idea of how to get there. When you have a solid plan in mind, you can make decisions that get you where you want to be as quickly and inexpensively as possible. Basically, what's the best way to get from Point A to Point B? If you aren't sure where Point B is, or think you might want to go to Point C, instead, how can you figure out the best way to get there? You have to set those goals and specific when setting them.

A very wise and seasoned race car builder once told me, "A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow." Do you want to "Run more than 8psi" in your car, or do you want to "Put at least 300hp to the wheels?" Do you want the ultimate turbosystem on your car two years from now, or do you want an additional 50hp to the wheels this summer, with room to upgrade while you learn the ropes? That's all I'm saying.

I've decided that I'm not going to directly answer questions as much as I used to and, instead, am going to play Devil's Advocate in the interest of promoting thought and discussion on a more advanced level over here. Pretty much all the regulars in the DSMtuners NT forums know what the answers are to new questions, but I'd like to start seeing people share more of the why. When people understand the basic concepts, they are provided with a much larger list of options for achieving them goals, ya know?

Again, I'm not out to start any shit, but to challenge people to bring more to the table to share WHY someone would want to do things a certain way. If there is no alternative, let's tell them WHY so they can understand and better pass the information forward.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Well guys, I was going to give a quick reply but I think I'll wait until I can read everything with a better response/opinion/POV to the topib. I applaud Brian for his list , it looks a tad bit on the optimistic side though..

Yes, yes, NO hard feelings at all here guys. It's just a forum about our car, nothing to get hot and heavy over... I am not replying in a sarcastic or smarta** manner, so I'm sorry if it may come across you in that way at any point in time. I like these discussions more then the simple one sentence reply or link provided.

But I gotta run, I'll check back after I visit my buddy from surgery... Later fellas.

 

[4UH8ERS]

OHH THAT FEELS GOOD. die horsie