2G N/T Boost Control

[l6u9k6e9]

Hey, i'm looking to piece together a turbo kit, i have the n/t recently rebuilt with 8.0:1 wiseco pistons and cower rods. So far i have a hahn s16g with manifold and downpipe. Where i get confused is how should my set up differ if i want to have it boost controlled from inside the car. I know i have to get an electronic boost controller, do i have to do anyting to the turbo? Is there a special bov i have to get? does the wastegate have to be electronically controlled (w/e that means). HOW DOES IT WORK . I tried searching but people mention these things withought explaining. Im sure someting is out there that i missed. Anyone?

 

[Slo2gen]

Most people seem to like the Greddy Profec b spec 2. Look into that one. It will allow you to change boost settings in the drivers seat. Just do a search on those and you will probably find what you are looking for.

 

[dr1665]

Electronic boost controllers have little computer boxes that you mount inside the cabin that control solenoids in the engine bay that are connected to vacuum lines. If you can imagine how a manual boost controller works, all an electronic one does is use electronics to open and close them at certain points.

Read up on how to install a manual boost controller for more information on how they are installed along with the turbo. You shouldn't have to do anything to the turbo itself. Your wastegate and BOV will regulate when boost is vented into the exhaust or atmosphere. Your boost controller regulates when those relieve excess pressure. (With the exception of your internally gated HRC s16G. You mayb have to research increasing boost with that. I think it has something to do with springs.)

What do I know? I'm an all motor guy.

 

[XMasta19]

2G N/T - Turbo Conversion...


quite an answer for just being an all motor guy brian



oh yeah...no you don't need a special bov

 

[l6u9k6e9]

would i need an externall waste gate? also would i need to buy different spring or actuator? also a few other noob questions for ya.

Where can i put the bov? i heard off the manifold, of the o2 housing? or off the fmic or the piping. not sure.


If i do have to get an externall wastegate, where does it go? Someone maybe have a pic? ive seen a diagram of how it all comes together on an integra but i lost the link,, help?

 

[BlackEclipse62]

If your are using the Hahn racecraft turbo which is internally wastegate then you do not need an external wastegate. As for the BOV you would want it on the charge pipe that connects to the throttle body. Correct me if i am wrong, but is should be around 12-18 inches away from the throttle body on the charge pipe.
Andy

 

[l6u9k6e9]

I have a built bottom end so i would like to run more than the stock ,9-10 psi w/e it is,id like 15-20 with supporting mods. So do i have to change out the accuator? how does it work? also how do the manual boost controllers work ? where do they go ?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

No, you don't have to change the wastegate (WG) or its actuator. A WG works by opening whenever it senses a certain amount of boost. This means it needs a boost source, which is just a vacuum line connected from the WG to the intake manifold or the turbo's compressor housing. A boost controller goes in-line between the WG and the boost source; so somewhere along that vacuum line. It works by restricting boost to the WG, thus requiring more pressure for it to open.

 

[l6u9k6e9]

Appreciate all the good info . I have more questions comming tho sorry..

I guess i should post a pic of what im working with first....

I bought this turbo from a guy who said it was the s16g from hahn. I looked at pictures off the internet and the exhaust housing ( i guess thats what its called ) on my turbo did not look the same as the one on hahns page. Also the part where the flapper for the wastegate is,is closed off. I circled it in red on the 2nd picture. What does this mean? On a different note, would i be able to run 5lbs withought any fuel management or fmic? pretty much a stage 1 till i get more cash? Cuz i got the manifold, turbo, and dp. All i would need is a bov and piping and id be set for a while. I HOPE THIS IS THE CASe!!! Ohh ya i do have an oil pan and i guess i would need an oil line kit, but besides that. sry for being random..

 

[l6u9k6e9]

Appreciate all the good info . I have more questions comming tho sorry..

I guess i should post a pic of what im working with first....

I bought this turbo from a guy who said it was the s16g from hahn. I looked at pictures off the internet and the exhaust housing ( i guess thats what its called ) on my turbo did not look the same as the one on hahns page. Also the part where the flapper for the wastegate is,is closed off. I circled it in red on the 2nd picture. What does this mean? On a different note, would i be able to run 5lbs withought any fuel management or fmic? pretty much a stage 1 till i get more cash? Cuz i got the manifold, turbo, and dp. All i would need is a bov and piping and id be set for a while. I HOPE THIS IS THE CASe!!! Ohh ya i do have an oil pan and i guess i would need an oil line kit, but besides that. sry for being random..

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I can't quite see what's going on with that wastegate flapper, but it doesn't look like its completely welded shut. But it's "closed off" you say? Inspect the wastegate flapper further, if it won't open under any circumstances than you'll probably have to go with an external wastegate set up.
You can still use what you bought, but you'll need an external wastegate flange welded to the exhaust manifold, and dump tube welded to the downpipe. Like I said though, re-inspect the wastegate, it doesn't appear to be welded and it should open with a little force. If not, then the flapper will need to be welded shut too, and then you can take off the whole actuator assembly.

As for your other questions, you need some sort of fuel management system if you're going to be boosting. This isn't something you can choose to leave off; you either have it, or you don't boost.
You can boost whatever you like without an intercooler, but I wouldn't recommend it whatsoever. Its tough when you're eager to finish your turbo set-up and you're on a budget: I know, believe me. This is one of those times, though, when you'll find its best just to wait a little longer and do things the right way. You can find a SMIC from the stock turbocharged Eclipses for very little on eBay or the DSMTuners Classifieds.

If you need any specific questions answered about finishing your turbo kit feel free to PM me. I just finished doing the same thing you're doing now.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

I can't quite see what's going on with that wastegate flapper, but it doesn't look like its welded shut or anything.

Are you kidding? It looks pretty welded shut to me. I'm not sure what is inside the hole exactly(I'm thinking JB weld), but it looks as if in 3 different spots, there are welds from the turbine housing, to whatever is in the hole thus keeping it closed/welded shut. You said it should open with little force. If that were the case, then it would be pointless to be there, since once pressure is built up from the turbo, it would push it out.

The rest of your post I agree with though

The IC statement, you can boost without an intercooler, but no it isn't recommended, but it's known to be safe for about 3-4 PSI un-intercooled.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

You said it should open with little force. If that were the case, then it would be pointless to be there, since once pressure is built up from the turbo, it would push it out.

Ok ok, ALOT of force. I don't have an internal wastegate, but when my Deltagate is off, I can push hard enough on the valve to open it.

Are you kidding? It looks pretty welded shut to me. I'm not sure what is inside the hole exactly(I'm thinking JB weld...

JB Weld isn't a real weld . Don't get me wrong, it's one of the best things since duct tape, but it can still be reversible. All I meant was a bona fide MIG/TIG weld. You're right though, it definitely looks secured shut with something.

If those are real welds, I suggest getting the whole circumference of the flapper welded shut. That way you can remove the un-needed actuator and have peace of mind that absolutely no exhaust can escape.

If its anything else (JB Weld, etc.) try to break it free. A dremel would come in handy for that.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

Ok ok, ALOT of force. I don't have an internal wastegate, but when my Deltagate is off, I can push hard enough on the valve to open it.

That's alittle bit different though it's much easier to push a valve down directly, than to push a rod down to open a valve..Manually. To test that out he should put a hose on the Wastegate nipple and shoot compressed air into it to see how much pressure it can withstand, or if it will leak or come loose.

JB Weld isn't a real weld ..

No way! Just kidding I know but it hardens or adheres just as good as weld. Companies are starting to use JB weld or similar adhesives to paneling, instead of real welding. I personally have never used JB weld, but I don't see how a dremel could get through that much of it very well.

 

[l6u9k6e9]

The part in that i circled in red(in the first pictures) i tried pushing up on it to see if it would come out and no fking way . But the little flapper that is on the inside opens and closes freely. That is when i took the accuator arm off, that spring in there is tough. What does this mean? Also what turbo is tihs i was told its the Hahn 16g but the exhaust part is different than from pictures,,,, Also when i stick my finger inthe exhast port i can feel the flapper opening and closing when i move that little arm thing.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

If the flapper's opening and closing freely than you shouldn't have any problems. The actuator, like DSMcrazy3 said, isn't supposed to move around easily, but the flapper is. So it sounds like thats all in working order.

As for the turbo... looks like Hahn's 16G to me.

 

[l6u9k6e9]

That is awesome news!! thanks , but why is that part of the exhaust side plugged? what does it do? would it be better if it was not?

 

[selmerguy]

That is awesome news!! thanks , but why is that part of the exhaust side plugged? what does it do? would it be better if it was not?

it's plugged to run a external wastegate. lots of people to it.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I think your terminology may be wrong. Look here at this picture; where you put the red circle - this is a plug over the flapper. Even if the flapper opens and closes freely after you disconnect the actuator, there's no place for the exhaust gasses to go because it's plugged.

If the plug is welded shut, like it looks like it is, then you need to do the external wastegate setup, like selmerguy said.

 

[l6u9k6e9]

i thought the flapper was what was underneath that, that hole is plugged but the little thingy "flapper" underneath opens and closes when you move the accuator arm. And i know this cuz i can stick my finger in through the exhaust port and feel it. From what i was told i dont need an external wastegate.... am i wrong?

 

[l6u9k6e9]

also that accuator is a 10lb one, im thinking of running a 12:1 fmu, with 310cc inj, and a walbro 255,,, sounds good? one thing do i still need a fpr if i have the fmu?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

the little thingy "flapper" underneath opens and closes when you move the accuator arm. And i know this cuz i can stick my finger in through the exhaust port and feel it.

Great description .

Think about what a wastegate does. It bypasses the exhaust gases around the turbo so it won't spool. If the that hole is plugged, how are exhaust gases going to go through? You'll need an external wastegate.

Refer to my previous post for the details. Its not a big deal, you'll just need a few things to be welded. I got my Turbonetics Deltagate for only $80 on eBay; there, or the DSMtuners classifieds is a good place to start.

im thinking of running a 12:1 fmu, with 310cc inj, and a walbro 255,,, sounds good?

Sounds good to me... that's what I'm running. Although, you won't need the injectors just yet. You'll mainly need those when you get into higher boost (let's say... more than 8 psi?). By that point, it'd probably be better to do a standalone or some sort of set up like Hahn's portfueler.

Check this out for a relatively cheap DIY 8 injector rig:
http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/8inj.html

one thing do i still need a fpr if i have the fmu?

Yes and no. The FMU is an FPR, but you can still keep your stock one on. You can also take it off if you choose.

If you do keep it on, just remember the order of things:
Fuel Pump --> Feed Line --> Fuel Rail --> Return Line --> FMU --> More Return Line --> Stock FPR --> Fuel Tank

(took me a while to figure that one out when I was a noob, although my set up's different because I have the old style fuel system.)

Good luck, PM me if you need help with anything specific.

 

[l6u9k6e9]

but wait, that hole is plugged but there is a way for the gasses to get to the dp. I can stick my finger in teh exhaust port and feel the flapper. Its got 2 holes 1 is plugged, but the one that is open still would allow the exhaust from the little flapper to flow.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Look... the hole that's plugged is the only place for bypassed gases to escape. If the exhaust gases go through the other one, they'll spin the turbine - creating boost. This is what a wastegate is supposed to inhibit; boost.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

At least they didn't weld the flapper shut altogether. If the plug's just held in there with JB Weld, use a dremel and try to pry it out. If not, take it to a machine shop or something; it doesn't look like its secured very well. You may be able to just take the plug out and run the internal WG. Its worth a try if nothing else - but an external WG will give you more control, which is something 420A's with little supporting mods need.