Resolved 2G MAF on a 1g n/t?

[bradyc]

can i run a 2g maf if i use bigger injectors? or is doing a gm maf swap better. whats the part number for the gm maf? im looking for extra power wherever i can get it on the non turbo. what will i even be able to run the 2g maf with the non turbos electronics?

 

[ChiTownHussla]

gm maf is good way to go. I would reccomend injectors then too though.

 

[bradyc]

gm maf is good way to go. I would reccomend injectors then too though.

what size injectors do you think would be good?
and will i need to use one of those expensive mass airflow translator?

 

[kennygw]

what size injectors do you think would be good?
and will i need to use one of those expensive mass airflow translator?

Yes you have to use the translator unless you have link v3. stock 1g injectors are 240cc, you could get some stock turbo injectors. They are 450cc and you can get them pretty cheap.

 

[bradyc]

Yes you have to use the translator unless you have link v3. stock 1g injectors are 240cc, you could get some stock turbo injectors. They are 450cc and you can get them pretty cheap.

so if i got some 390cc or 450cc i will need a something to adjust my air/fuel ratio correct? and is there somewhere online showing how i would wire it?

 

[steve]

Changing the MAF isn't going to give you more power. You'll have to retune the car (with a SAFC or MAFT) to account for the MAF counts being different and when your done it's very likely the car will run the same or worse than with the original MAF.

 

[Trav83]

Changing the MAF isn't going to give you more power. You'll have to retune the car (with a SFAC or MAFT) to account for the MAF counts being different and when your done it's very likely the car will run the same or worse than with the original MAF.

I'm glad you stepped in and said something, I rolled my eyes when I saw where this thread was headed

 

[steve]

While technically the 2G MAF or GM MAF would be less restrictive than the stock MAF, the odds of tuning out the different in it's output with injectors or using via translator leave a higher chance of it running worse than before.

Since he already lists the 2G MAF as a mod I have to wonder if the rest of the mods listed that would make a difference are actually done.

 

[Trav83]

Yes the 1g MAF is more restrictive but at what point? I thought the the 1g MAF works fine on turbo models with lights mods, once you starting getting into the higher HP numbers then you should get a less restrictive 2G or GM MAF. Having said that how could it ever be justified using it on a NT? Would you ever see any gain?

 

[bradyc]

Yes the 1g MAF is more restrictive but at what point? I thought the the 1g MAF works fine on turbo models with lights mods, once you starting getting into the higher HP numbers then you should get a less restrictive 2G or GM MAF. Having said that how could it ever be justified using it on a NT? Would you ever see any gain?

I just thought the upgraded maf would let more air in, and bigger injectors would add more fuel, and common sense says more fuel and air = more power?

 

[ChiTownHussla]

^^ I thought this as well...

 

[Trav83]

Well I can't say I haven't been curious like you at one point. Here ya go http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/339225-gm-maf-nt.html

 

[bradyc]

Well I can't say I haven't been curious like you at one point. Here ya go http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/339225-gm-maf-nt.html

I just read through it all, i cant see how a turbo guy can knock the idea down considering they most likely never done the mod on a n/t. Just going of a good guess to if you can have less resistance in the air intake system, your engine will pull more air in easier, and with bigger injectors you can add more fuel. Im not taking massive amounts of air like a turbo would. But id assume it would be more then stock. Even just a little is better! Maybe with the right tuning you can get decent power gains? after i get my non-turbo running i think ill give this a shot.

Not much to loose, Ive seen everything i need at a junkyard recently, and it was all pretty cheap.

 

[Trav83]

Here's another thread for your entertainment, but this one refers to the 2g MAF swap http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/402663-2g-maf-1g-nt-pics-inside.html The argument was never really settled, which is disappointing because it would be great to know for sure if you can actually benefit from upgrading your air control sensor on a NT (was hoping a wiseman would have chimed in).

Unfortunately these types of threads lose interest pretty quickly as they are in reference to the much less popular Non Turbo, and often are never really resolved or given useful/insightful knowledge.

 

[Dhan]

Unfortunately these types of threads lose interest pretty quickly as they are in reference to the much less popular Non Turbo, and often are never really resolved or given useful/insightful knowledge.

It's too bad there's so little interest. I like my n/t 2.0 just as much as I like my turbo 1g.

 

[bradyc]

Ill try and talk to iberto and bg300 about there installs, i think that a gain is possible here, i think if you wire it right and add slightly bigger injectors it will work fine. I will give a local speed shop a call and see what they have to say about it if anything. Hell maybe ill just buy a nos sniper kit and give the eclipse a 35-50 shot for that extra power anyone run nitrous?

 

[Dhan]

I think the gains would be marginal if any with a 2g maf. At the level of power our engines make, a quality air filter, a hard pipe, and removal of the silencer is enough to get plenty of air in. Without a turbocharger, our engines don't need a huge amount of air.
If you add bigger injectors, you will need something to tune it with. The ecu in its stock configuration is unable to adjust appropriately.

Another option would be to increase the displacement. There's another member on here who runs a n/t 1g dirt race car that uses a 4G64 block but with a 4G63 head. So his engine is a 2.4L. It's hard to say exactly how much more power his car is making, because he's never dyno'd it, but it's an interesting hybrid.

Apart from opening the air flow (which will use a bit more fuel) and installing a less restrictive exhaust (2.5" DP into a 2.5" cat-back), there isn't much more that can be done to the n/t for cheap.
The next step would be a planned rebuild and then replacing a number of different internal parts.

Nitrous is a viable option, but you don't just slap it in and go. It needs to be dialed in, and is often best left to a shop if you don't know what you're doing. This can get expensive. And if you're racing, why do nitrous on a n/t if you could just buy a factory turbo'd car and probably go faster more reliably?

Just some things to think about before you start spending your hard earned coins

 

[cliffkemp]

According to Gary Howell, you are only going to be able to do so much with a N/T. With lots of head work and a stand alone system coupled with better cams, you may get around 175-190 hp or so but will cost a fortune compared to what you can get a turboed version at. It may be fun to entertain but, probably why most do not worry about it. Stock block is good for about 330 crank hp max. Try it and see but, most neon folks of the same era will be able to better tell you what can and cannot be done. With enough cash, you could clear 200hp and be all motor as it has been done. With the same cash, you can get a decent tsi or gst or laser rs and be faster by a wide margin. to each, their own.