2G 2G DSM Awd 5 speed w drivetrain or transmission problem - Help

[1greyawdtsi]

Good afternoon. Long post & not as well written as I hoped - I’m sorry. I have been researching on this transmission or drivetrain issue I had occur yesterday - to no avail!

I’m looking for thoughts/experiences to point me in a general direction before I actually get to look/work on the Talon this weekend.

So yesterday leaving from a stop at a stop light I accelerated hard in 1st gear to make the light before it changed. As I was crossing the intersection in 1st gear it felt like a simultaneously loud bang, a slip (not really clutch) & it may have popped out of 1st gear or felt like that. So immediately I shift into 2nd gear (thinking did I just lose the transmission) & it shifted in to 2nd and it drove fine.

I almost immediately pulled over - turn off the car & look for any fluid or damage - but I see nothing. After a about 5 mins of looking around I leave the parking lot in 1st gear & under a medium load it made a similar bang noise/slip & it seemed to either jump out of 1st gear or slip (hard to tell exactly). Next I decide to drive it slowly in each gear & it drives fine under a light load/acceleration. Next I turn on to a 55 mph road. I am accelerating w/ a medium load in 2nd gear & get this similar bang/slip scenario again. Again hard to say if it’s a slip in the trans/drivetrain - b/c my natural reaction is to hit the clutch as fast as possible. So I shift into 3rd, 4th and 5th & gently drive it 2 miles home. Again all gears working with no noise or grinds unless I’m accelerating under a medium to high load or acceleration.

Based on the 3 times this event occurred yesterday & my research so far it seems like it may be something with a bad output shaft & transfer case splines. However any thoughts or experiences are appreciated, thank you!

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Check your axle splines for damage and remove the transfer case and look for damage on the transmission output shaft. If that doesn’t show anything, remove the trans and open it up.

 

[pauleyman]

How old is the trans? Mileage?

 

[1greyawdtsi]

How old is the trans? Mileage?

Transmission if it matches car odometer could be 200,000 miles. Transmission does look like it may have been apart at some point in its life.
Funny after several 1Gs & 2Gs & 20+ years of ownership this is a new issue for me. Should be a solid learning experience. I will inspect the splines, etc and see what I learn and will post back once I get to look at it.

 

[pauleyman]

That kind of noise and it popped out of gear I would suspect internal. Every high mileage dsm I've ever opened had play on the shafts. Get on them hard with involute gears, shafts move and forks dont....well gears popout.

 

[1greyawdtsi]

That kind of noise and it popped out of gear I would suspect internal. Every high mileage dsm I've ever opened had play on the shafts. Get on them hard with involute gears, shafts move and forks dont....well gears popout.

Thank you, I appreciate that input. My gut is telling me transmission but of course I’m hoping it is something easier (lulz).
I’ve installed engines and transmissions but never rebuilt one. Since it’s 2023 I doubt I’d find a good used 5 speed AWD transmission. So I suspect rebuilding the trans is the shortest, most practical/reliable way to proceed - if that’s the problem. Good times…

 

[pauleyman]

I assume you've seen parts are hard to come by now.

 

[jdxnc]

First thing I would do is remove the transfer case and inspect the splines, both in the tcase and on the output shaft coming out of the transmission. I've seen a few times where people will forget the retainer ball that holds the output shaft into the transmission and it will work fine, however it allows the shaft to move back and forth slightly, which ends up filing down the splines.

Secondly I would drain the oil from the transmission into a clean white pan and look for any chunks. Some silver coloring in the trans is somewhat normal but any clear particles would be a clear sign something is wrong. Any larger chunks on the drain plug would be self explanatory.

 

[1greyawdtsi]

I’ve just heard rumblings & rumors of parts also being hard to find - but it makes sense. It took me a over year to find a decent donor used 2G car/motor when mine died almost 2 years ago. So yeah, should be wicked fun trying to figure this one out

First thing I would do is remove the transfer case and inspect the splines, both in the tcase and on the output shaft coming out of the transmission. I've seen a few times where people will forget the retainer ball that holds the output shaft into the transmission and it will work fine, however it allows the shaft to move back and forth slightly, which ends up filing down the splines.

Secondly I would drain the oil from the transmission into a clean white pan and look for any chunks. Some silver coloring in the trans is somewhat normal but any clear particles would be a clear sign something is wrong. Any larger chunks on the drain plug would be self explanatory.

Thanks! I will start here, it definitely makes sense.
Leading up to yesterday I would fairly regularly get a Clunk (like excessive drivetrain lash) when quickly letting off the gas in 1st gear. It sounded/felt like it was coming from the mid to rear of the car. Almost like if I was missing a bolt or two from the transfer case (I’m not) or rear subframe bushings were bad (they were replaced). Not sure if it’s related to the current issue but will be curious to see.

 

[luv2rallye]

Gear popout is usually due to internal tranny shaft (input and/or intermediate shafts) "end to end" play - due to worn shaft end bearings, loose 36mm shaft nut(s), bearing preload/endplay is way off, or tranny moves due to worn engine/tranny mounts (which can move the cable inside the shifter casing).

It can also be the gear is not fully engaging due to worn shift fork (very likely, especially if the skateboard bearing mod was done - I have much personnal experience with this), worn slider groove (not so likely), slider engagement teeth severely worn so slip back off (not so likely), shift cable casing moving around because it's not bolted down (very likely - the casing moving around makes the cable inside go longer/shorter so gear doesn't fully engage), gear shifter not moving far enough, shifter select lever shoe excessively worn (although this usually affects shifting from 1/2 to/from 3/4 or to/from 5th).

Before pulling tranny check the shift cable casing moving (do with engine off), gear shifter movement, tranny movement due to worn engine/tranny mounts. You can check the latter by same way you check syncros - with engine running, watch how far the engine/tranny rocks forward/back while someone shifts into any gear and then just lets the clutch out to where it's barely engaging (and no more) - repeat in, back out, in, back out, etc (never let clutch out any further - just to where it starts to engage and engine rpm starts to drop).

Here's how to rebuild your tranny: https://web.archive.org/web/20100627174759/http://www.twingles.com/ideck/rebuild3/dretranny.htm

 

[1greyawdtsi]

Gear popout is usually due to internal tranny shaft (input and/or intermediate shafts) end to end play, due to worn shaft end bearings, shaft nut(s) is loose, bearing preload/endplay is way off, tranny moves due to worn engine/tranny mounts (which can move the cable inside the shifter casing).

It can also be the gear is not fully engaging due to worn shift fork (very likely, especially if the skateboard bearing mod was done - I have much personnal experience with this), worn slider groove (not so likely), slider engagement teeth severely worn so slip back off (not so likely), shift cable casing moving around because it's not bolted down (very likely - the casing moving around makes the cable inside go longer/shorter so gear doesn't fully engage), gear shifter not moving far enough, shifter select lever shoe excessively worn (although this usually affects shifting from 1/2 to/from 3/4 or to/from 5th).

Before pulling tranny check the shift cable casing moving, gear shifter movement, tranny movement due to worn engine/tranny mounts. You can check the latter by same way you check syncros - with engine running, watch how far the engine/tranny rocks forward/back while someone shifts into any gear and then just lets the clutch out to where it's barely engaging (and no more) - repeat in, back out, in, back out, etc (never let clutch out any further - just to where it starts to engage and engine rpm starts to drop).

Here's how to rebuild your tranny: https://web.archive.org/web/20100627174759/http://www.twingles.com/ideck/rebuild3/dretranny.htm

Thank you. Read it and will re-read in the morning. I do appreciate the insights!

 

[1greyawdtsi]

Check your axle splines for damage and remove the transfer case and look for damage on the transmission output shaft. If that doesn’t show anything, remove the trans and open it up.

Update: Tonight after sitting for 5 months I decided get the Talon up on jack stands for an initial visual inspection. Again as described above - I was getting a slipping /1st and 2nd gear pop out under moderate / hard acceleration.

During the visual inspection today the only thing out of the ordinary was a decent amount of grease around the frame right around the inner front passenger side axle boot (see pics red circled area).There are no rips in the inner boot and it felt solid and properly attached. I could understand this if boot was loose or ripped. I could understand if it was wet if the axle seal was leaking transmission fluid.

If the boot is intact any thoughts where this grease would emanate from? Not sure this has anything thing to do with my pop out situation. Just curious if anyone has any insight, thanks!

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