ECMlink 1G Should I increase fuel pressure or do I need bigger injectors?

[AWD-Tony]

I saw this thread about voltage drop during WOT but it's for 2g's. Is Saturn alternators the fix for 1g's?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/voltage-drop-during-wot.378374/

The cost of used injectors and paying to get them cleaned/ flowed usually negates any cost savings. Might as well buy them new unless you just run then as is. As for fueling, our stock lines/rail is more than adequate for 550+hp. The fuel filter banjo is the only real restriction.

I did notice the hole in the banjo was small when I replace the fuel filter. I clocked it so it lined up with the hole in the line. My next cheap upgrade will be to replace that banjo and line to the rail since I have an extra braided line.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Here is another thing many people are missing: fluid penetration. There's a reason that boosted cars have 1:1 fuel pressure increase. If you up that base pressure with only 17 psi and stay away from the zone that your walbro starts to tank on volume output, your fuel pump wouldn't cause any problems. However, if the fluid penetration increases too much from the increased fuel pressure, you can run into wall-wetting, worse atomization, lower mpg, fuel/ring wash, etc.

Now, if you only gonna bump em a little, you might be okay, but if you're sitting on a stock engine setup (stock compression and cams) you should just leave the fuel pressure alone and buy some larger injectors. I hope this explanation of some fuel injection theory (engineering etc) makes sense.

So keep bfp and injduty at a minimal. Correct?

 

[AWD-Tony]

I have a set of precision 1000's that are ready to drop in, no nonsense. 150 shipped.

I sent you a PM


Edit: Just realized that my add is linked above and that you already saw it.

Bleaky- These days, paypal is what makes online trading possible. The buyer has about 6 months to decide if they are happy or not. To rip someone off, you would have to be an absolute fool, but it doesnt mean people dont try. So anyway, I think to call anyone's offering "Taboo" just like that is a bit thin. At the same time, maybe you are jaded after having dealt with someone ethically underhanded?? An important part of online trading, to save yourself wasted time really, is to feel out the person you are possibly dealing with. Look for their posts from the past and access their overall presentation, check out their recent activity. Establish communication, see if they can maintain smooth communication that makes sense. After spending a minute or two doing that, you can reasonably decide weather the offering is "Taboo" or not...... OK, Im done now. Sorry for the rant. Had to do it.

Thanks, Jason! I will think about it and let you know if I want them.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Don't quote me on this but I think anything over 100% duty cycle is just a representation of how much fuel your engine is demanding. The duty cycle is derived from a calculation. A 105% dt doesn't mean your injectors are giving 105% effort. Here is a quote from injector-rehab.com:

"I have seen it more than once that people report they ran a duty higher than 100%... it is not possible. Your injector has completely maxed out and only ran 100%, you just ran it past its operating range and the calculation shows that. It is impossible to physically run an injector HIGHER than 100%."

From the small amount of research I've done, I believe you're 100% correct. There's no possible way for injector duty to be over 100% since it's calculating the percentage it stays open during one cycle.

 

[Bleakley]

edited out some bad info....

The cost of used injectors and paying to get them cleaned/ flowed usually negates any cost savings. Might as well buy them new unless you just run then as is. As for fueling, our stock lines/rail is more than adequate for 550+hp. The fuel filter banjo is the only real restriction.

Correct, especially on the banjo fitting!
I disagree about not getting used injectors tested though. I'd rather not gamble. You need to know your injectors are good.
Anyone who tunes for themselves especially knows this. If you tune on top of poop (potentially), then all you are gonna get is poop.
I'd much rather have the piece of mind and not have to worry.

 

[Vegas Smith]

False. Codyace on zilvia put down over 400whp with an sr20det on 555cc injectors with a GT2871R and only ran out of turbo, not injectors. I'll put in a link if you want one. My numbers are accurate.

The rest of what you said is on point. If you're over 80/85% IDC - Look into upgrading injectors...




Correct, especially on the banjo fitting!
I disagree about getting used injectors tested though. I'd rather not gamble. You need to know your injectors are good.
Anyone who tunes for themselves especially knows this. If you tune on top of poop (potentially), then all you are gonna get is poop.
I'd much rather have the piece of mind and not have to worry.

I stand corrected then. You can dyno 450whp with 550cc injectors on a dsm.

 

[Mello]

I think you gauys are missing an important piece of information. All of the claims & values are dependent on the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) of the engine in question. Most of us do not have the ablility to measure this making it necessary to assume estimated values. Engines making more power with smaller injectors have a better BSFC.

 

[Bleakley]

I have a set of precision 1000's that are ready to drop in, no nonsense. 150 shipped.

I sent you a PM


Edit: Just realized that my add is linked above and that you already saw it.

Bleaky- These days, paypal is what makes online trading possible. The buyer has about 6 months to decide if they are happy or not. To rip someone off, you would have to be an absolute fool, but it doesnt mean people dont try. So anyway, I think to call anyone's offering "Taboo" just like that is a bit thin. At the same time, maybe you are jaded after having dealt with someone ethically underhanded?? An important part of online trading, to save yourself wasted time really, is to feel out the person you are possibly dealing with. Look for their posts from the past and access their overall presentation, check out their recent activity. Establish communication, see if they can maintain smooth communication that makes sense. After spending a minute or two doing that, you can reasonably decide weather the offering is "Taboo" or not...... OK, Im done now. Sorry for the rant. Had to do it.

You're good dude / we're good.
You're right rhough - Yes, I have been burned before. I agree with most of your post.
But, people rip people off EVERY day EVL...
And the last time I read PayPal's "disputing" agreement i think it's more like three months, not six.
Most people don't rip others off, but it still happens. Once you've been burned, it likely won't happen again. Never will I put used injectors on any of my cars w/o getting them tested. Simply too much at risk over another $100 + shipping... It's foolish.

 

[EVLGSX]

We are all at different ability/experience levels in this hobby. Some things that work for one guy, may not be the best route for others. To some of us, injectors are very easy to clean, test, and monitor while performing, so for that reason, the risk is tremendously reduced. I guess its about where a seller/buyer is coming from......... I remember what it was like to be 17 and to want my car to be fast. Back then, I couldn't drop over 500 bucks on injectors like I will now. So when Ive got a set laying around that I know are good, and can help some kid make it happen, I hate to see that kid end up discouraged when it was the answer to the problem the whole time.

Sorry you had a bad experience though.

 

[Bleakley]

Just looked over my math in the notebook I have at home.
The number for 550 injectors is 400whp @ 95% IDC
The number for 608cc injectors (what the SR 555's actually were) is 450whp @ 95-100% IDC.

VERY sorry for that misinformation, but that's definitely something that needed clarified.

 

[Vegas Smith]

don't quote me.

Just did

 

[Bleakley]

Sorry you had a bad experience though.

Thanks. Yeah, that one really sucked. Chased that problem for a couple weeks until I sent them out for testing. That was back before I knew how to diagnose better. :/
Hope it didn't seem like I was slamming your post specifically either, because that was def not my intent.

 

[Bleakley]

Just did

As soon as I thought about the 555/608cc thing I started digging into my folder at home marked "240sx" in permanent marker.
I knew I had that information somewhere. As soon as I saw what I had written down I went to deatchwerks? (Hope i spelled that right) calculator and plugged in the numbers and was like, "SON OF A B****, now I feel like an idiot."
But I own it. That one was my bad.

Updated table(s) for reference:
80-85-90 DC (pump gas)
225-240-255 - 370/390cc injectors
275-290-305 - 450cc injectors
335-360-380 - 550/555cc injectors
365-390-415 - 600/608cc injectors
455-475-500 - 725/740cc injectors
515-550-580 - 850cc injectors
605-645-685 - 1000cc injectors
640-680-715 - 1050cc injectors
790-840-890 - 1300cc injectors
1005-1065-1130 - 1650cc injectors
1035-1100-1165 - 1700cc injectors
1215-1295-1370 - 2000cc injectors
1310-1390-1470 - 2150cc injectors

 

[Vegas Smith]

As soon as I thought about the 555/608cc thing I started digging into my folder at home marked "240sx" in permanent marker.
I knew I had that information somewhere. As soon as I saw what I had written down I went to deatchwerks? (Hope i spelled that right) calculator and plugged in the numbers and was like, "SON OF A B****, now I feel like an idiot."
But I own it. That one was my bad.

Updated table(s) for reference:
80%-95% IDC (pump gas)
225-275 - 370/390cc injectors
275-325 - 450cc injectors
325-400 - 550/555cc injectors
350-425 - 600/608cc injectors
450-525 - 725/740cc injectors
525-625 - 850cc injectors
625-725 - 1000cc injectors
625-750 - 1050cc injectors
775-925 - 1300cc injectors
1025-1225 - 1700cc injectors

Haha, it's one of those things where it's highly unlikely but some guy somewhere did it once so it is possible.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Just did a pull. It's getting up to 93%. Injectors will prob be next. Still have to fine tune MAF slider past 300hz. How does it look otherwise?

 

[Mello]

What are your AFR's? If you're running on the rich side, lean it out a little will lower your IDC's too. IDC's should be highest @ peak torque. Ideally you would choose injectors large enough to have an 80% IDC with your target AFR in the peak torque zones. If you have consistant quality fuel you can go with higher IDC's but I would limt 90% as the highest.

 

[Bleakley]

If your flowing 375whp, then you ARE at the upper limit of 550cc injectors.
On paper you should be over 90%.
In reality you're over 90%.

There's no changing the facts. Time for an injector upgrade. (Just looked on ID's website. They no longer sell the 725's and 850's. That's a shame.)

 

[motomattx]

You don't buy is specifically for raising BFP but what happens when you're out of duty cycle and I'm already maxing 2150s? Next logical thing in increasing BFP. I am trying to avoid dual rails at all costs.

Its a tricks to increase injector flow when you are option limited. If you or your friends don't know about it and think it's incorrect then that's your problem.

Lol listen kid, having an 8 second car, I'm pretty sure theres no "tricks" that you and your "buddies" know about tricking fuel injectors by being a cheap a$$ and not buying the proper parts that I didnt know about years ago, and its not a problem that I do things right, this garbage is the reason these cars have turned into junk and have went from being taken seriously to being looked at as a broken joke.

 

[motomattx]

Just did a pull. It's getting up to 93%. Injectors will prob be next. Still have to fine tune MAF slider past 300hz. How does it look otherwise?

Correct! again you need bigger injectors period before you damage something, we could have saved 3 pages of nonsense

 

[AWD-Tony]

Correct! again you need bigger injectors period before you damage something, we could have saved 3 pages of nonsense

Would you say that it's safe with the way it's running now? Or, do I need injectors overnighted?

 

[Vegas Smith]

Lol listen kid, having an 8 second car, I'm pretty sure theres no "tricks" that you and your "buddies" know about tricking fuel injectors by being a cheap a$$ and not buying the proper parts that I didnt know about years ago, and its not a problem that I do things right, this garbage is the reason these cars have turned into junk and have went from being taken seriously to being looked at as a broken joke.

Increasing base fuel pressure to get some more injector flow is a problem and the reason these cars are junk? What a joke. Of course ole Matt is doing it the "right" way. It's all these dumb millennials screwing these old cars up, eh? Wow. You're probably the same guy who did all the "free mods" on these cars 15 years ago when that was the acceptable thing to do. Now, all the free mods like turning up your fuel pressure are "ruining" these cars.

 

[lasthope05]

Lol listen kid, having an 8 second car, I'm pretty sure theres no "tricks" that you and your "buddies" know about tricking fuel injectors by being a cheap a$$ and not buying the proper parts that I didnt know about years ago, and its not a problem that I do things right, this garbage is the reason these cars have turned into junk and have went from being taken seriously to being looked at as a broken joke.

Please dont make me laugh. You're probably only .1 or .2 tenths faster than me if anything. Get off your high high horse and stop thinking you're a somebody "KID". Grow up.

 

[Brembo]

Play nice boys.

 

[steve]

I think the OP's questions have been answered.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Pretty sure I'm right at the boarder. I can see both sides of the argument. Think I'm content with how it's running right now. Still in the process of fine tuning but it's up to 88%.