1G 1g maf/2g maf question

[93AWDDSM]

It seems all but impossible to find a 1g used MAS. I have 560 injectors (not installed) and a 2g maf laying around just needs a pigtail and wired up. Would the 2g MAS/560cc injectors cancel each other out? Or would it make the car rich to the point it's not driveable?
Thanks!

(No logger at the moment so I couldn't see what my fuel trims would be) this is a daily and I'm running out of options for the MAS.

 

[lasershark]

It seems all but impossible to find a 1g used MAS. I have 560 injectors (not installed) and a 2g maf laying around just needs a pigtail and wired up. Would the 2g MAS/560cc injectors cancel each other out? Or would it make the car rich to the point it's not driveable?
Thanks!

(No logger at the moment so I couldn't see what my fuel trims would be) this is a daily and I'm running out of options for the MAS.

That used to be an old school ("good to go") set up, is it perfect? No, but you are correct it basically cancels each other out. If you search the combo, many have ran that combo for years without problems. (I'm sure some still do)

It "SHOULD" run fine but that is for you to decide. I just wouldn't beat on it without being able to monitor fuel and knock.

 

[Dstarperformance01]

Yep, it works. Get a wideband if you don't have one and monitor afr's at WOT to keep an eye on things. If memory serves me, I believe it will run slightly rich. Which is better than the alternative.

 

[PlanZero]

^ out of curiosity, isn't the old school setup based on 550 injectors? Wont the evo 560 (or really what are they, 580cc?) injectors be too much for the 2g MAF?
Op please post an afr update after install. I assume you already have a wideband (if not wait til you do) I want to know how rich you are

 

[Dstarperformance01]

^ out of curiosity, isn't the old school setup based on 550 injectors? Wont the evo 560 (or really what are they, 580cc?) injectors be too much for the 2g MAF?
Op please post an afr update after install. I assume you already have a wideband (if not wait til you do) I want to know how rich you are

Yes! 560's aren't that much bigger than 550's so it will be slightly rich until ecu is tuned or "fooled" w/ an SAFC. Safc can be used up to 650's. After that it's hell to get them dialed in.

 

[PlanZero]

Yeah that's what I thought. I know the old school 1g guys would run a 2g MAF with RC or FIC 550s all day without tuning. I was curious since when I was researching injectors the evo 560s actually flow a bit more than 560ccs, more like 580, pulse faster, etc and I wouldn't feel comfortable without at least an SAFC, as there's very little info on guys using the 2gMAF+evo 560 without. I assume the OP was referring to the former method, not planning on using anything. I'm only using 550s and a SAFC on my 2g because of paranoia over pushing 650s (timing curve) though as I write this I just realized I have a 1g CAS

 

[93AWDDSM]

damn , to bring this back! Car is running ehhh so I have a 2G MAS laying around. I'm going to wire it up today and run it AS IS, stock with 450cc injectors this is a replacement and I understand it will lean me out but I will not be going WOT all the time . I see no problem with being able to run this MAS with stock 450cc injectors (as long as WOT isn't the normal driving) besides that the 2G fuel maps run a little rich compared to 1G.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

If you have an AFPR, turn the pressure up some. I ran 50 lbs on stock 390's to richen it up a tad when I turned up the boost a couple of lbs. It's like a bigger injector then and would "cover up" the leanness somewhat. If you have a WB, you can surely tell by watching it.
It would just keep you in a safer AF zone, or it was my reasoning for doing it. I didn't have a WB in the car yet so I don't know how much it richened it up, but it did some.

 

[93AWDDSM]

As of right now I’m stock-ish.
Just a 16g that we won’t name and a FMIC with only 11lbs of Boost.

I do not have the following:
AFPR, engine management, tuning products.

So right now, I’m going on hopes everything’s ok. Few more days and can order logging tools.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

IF you can find one, you can put an automatic regulator on it and it will bump the pressure up from 37.5 to 43.5. Just an idea if needed.

 

[93AWDDSM]

My engine isn’t going to melt by just normal driving is it? Lol. It couldn’t possibly get that lean from normal cruising.

 

[GPLaserRS]

@93AWDDSM , as 1990TSIAWDTALON suggested getting a FPR from an automatic so you can bump your Fuel Pressure or get an AFPR, and a Wideband to monitor your AFR's until you have some other injectors or some means of tuning. You might be okay at cruise but you're running a 16g which is bigger than a 14b or a t25, so anytime you go open loop and make any boost your loading the engine more than the ecu can accommodate with the injectors you're running. Keep that in mind and be mindful until you get things back in check.

 

[93AWDDSM]

Yes, I definitely saw that, thanks. I have zero access to an automatic dsm regulator or funds (right now) to purchase a AFPR or logging equipment. I will be chancing it today when I wire it up and will let you all know what happens. Lmfao

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

If it gives you any problems, slap those bigger injectors in! If it doesn't work out, put the 450's back in. The 2g maf/560's/16g should balance out fairly well, you should try to keep it more on the rich side than on the lean side because, yes, you can melt stuff, so be careful!

 

[93AWDDSM]

I’m just trying to DD and baby it until I can get parts. So what would the best next step to be? I was going to order a usb logging cable and program just to be able to watch some perimeters of the sensors.

I can’t find the 560 now! Damn it. This is all in attempt to get my car back to daily. The 1g maf is having issues and it’s already hacked to hell with no lower honey comb and the idle screw in the lower part of the MAS is turned all the way out (just wonderful!).

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Just take it easy until you can monitor your air fuels. If it doesn't want to run, don't make it.
Those dam 560's....they are hiding from you because they know you want to put them in!!!!!

 

[93AWDDSM]

If for whatever reason I can’t find them ill purchase these if they work and go from there if the car is having real issues with the 450cc/2G MAS.

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I hope you find the injectors you already had. I had some head studs that were hiding from me and as soon as I bought a spare set, I found them.
So this is all because your 1g MAF is hacked and not performing well?
If it wasn't so big, I'd mail you one to use .

 

[93AWDDSM]

Well, it all relates to one thing or another. Like a month ago I was having issues where it would randomly die while driving thought it was originally a MAS issue so I swapped to a normal MAS unhacked and it seemed better until a day later the same issue arose. I swapped TPS, IAC to no avail. I through my buddy’s ecu in (awd m/t vs my fwd m/t) and it seemed to clear it up until last night. My axle nut came loose and caused a hell of a problem, for home fixed it up. Decided to tighten the knock off BOV spring for harder and went for a drive. It felt like the fuel turned off but the turbo was still spooling clearly which was strange and then it was like a flip was switched and boost kicked in hard then I would come to the light while idling go to 10 vacuum and rough idle. When I tried to accelerate it popped and sputtered with the pedal at wot but I was moving very slowly and it didn’t really want to move.

My other thread is about my TB shaft seals I just replaced which are leaking again (not happy) and the issue seems like a massive boost leak because before the TB shaft seals were changed I didn’t experience this once.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yeah I saw that thread. You will HAVE to address the shaft seal issue. It's a major problem with running. I rebuild throttle bodies and carbs and on OUR motors, those seals are very important. Do you, by chance have a non turbo throttle body? I haven't worked on a DSM unit but I did a LT-1 on a Impala SS and it didn't have seals like we use, just normal carb looking shaft plastic bushings because it isn't holding pressure. USUALLY, the seals are HARD to get in flat and true but patience is your friend there. I freeze mine to shrink them slightly and dig em out right at install time with the metal seals. They fit very snug. If not, they are not the correct seals for that throttle body.
Just some hints and tips.

 

[93AWDDSM]

Dang. I just replaced those shaft seals. It’s a 91-94 turbo throttle body. The seals were/are extremepsi black non metal cased seals, the slipped in very easily which surprised me. I will take the TB off and try to rig it with some rtv because this is crazy, I just purchased those for $15. I have driven less than 50 miles on them why are they leaking!!!!!! Lol

These are the seals I purchased and replaced........

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well since you don't have a boost leak tester, you are shooting in the dark you know. It is a perfect time to do a BLT and find ALL leaks and fix them. A boosted car can never run right if the metered air doesn't make it to the engine. The ECU doesn't know it is leaking air so it's not telling the rest of the motor the right things, simple as that. We depend on our ECU's to manage our fuel and timing so they need correct readings to operate the motor effectively. I think you can build a tester for under 15 buks and you will use it time and time again.
If the seals are that loose, you need to fix those and any other leaks and some problems will quit being problems.

 

[93AWDDSM]

I do have a tester! (Just at a buddy’s he was testing, my car “was” running ok ) so I will have it available tomorrow.

I’m going to pull the TB off and take the TPS off to see clearly if those shaft seals are leaking when I test it.

Thanks for your help!


Edit: I just astated the car and was trying to listen for leaks. The TPS doesn’t seem to be leaking by the throttle cable side seal is definitely leaking which is the one that slipped easily into its seat on the TB...

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I'm tryin
Do a blt and get back with results.

 

[Brembo]

You sure that you have 91 and up TB? 90 TB uses 2 different size seals.