1990 TSi Transmission Question

[zelack]

I have a 1990 TSi and the syncro in second gear is weak. It grinds and is very annoying not being able to use second gear as im sure some of you know. Anyways, I am trying to resolve the issue by replacing the transmission with a rebuilt one. I am having some trouble tracking one down though but I found a 1991 transmission with the correct spline count (22) to match the OEM transfer case.

My question is would the 1991 trans work with the 1990 transfer case as long as the new trans is from an AWD and Turbo Talon?

Any other suggestions for the cheapest route to go would be helpful.

Thanks

 

[1990dsmkid]

you can make it work if you get the cables and shifter base from a 91+. Otherwise it wont work correctly

 

[iaintmaci]

The smart thing to do would be to send the trans out to shep to be rebuilt. Putting a used trans in may just be asking for more trouble. You could run right back into the same problems, and have to spend more time and money changing it again. Have it rebuilt, and you know what is going on. No guessing on whether or not your tranny is going to hold up.

I know it may cost more up front, but in the long run, its probably going to be cheaper.

 

[fstfbdy]

x2 on iaintmaci said. Have youre rebuilt
Im in the same boat as you. 2nd gear is starting to grind going in gear. Soon as I get slow at work Im pulling it out and having a local shop go thru and rebuild it.

 

[pauleyman]

91s did not come with a 22 spline output so if it is indeed 22 somebody changed it. Not necessarily a big deal but it begs the question why. Unless you know the history it's just another used transmission.

 

[zelack]

Seems like just having it rebuilt is going to be the best option. I have been calling local shops and they are saying up to $2,500 with parts and labor. He said that was just his guess based on not taking it apart yet but that working on a trans for a turbo vehicle is more difficult. I dont know how to pull a trans personally nor do I have the equipment to do so. Does that sound like he is charging too much?

 

[hotrodssnova]

Just because it has a turbo doesn't mean it more difficult. Go somewhere else and get a different est. There are only 4 extra bolts to remove an awd tranny from a fwd tranny. 6 if you count the carrier bearing for the driver's side axle. I just went thru my box, found broken intermediate shaft, and my tranny would grind and pop out of second gear.
I had a spare unit and put it in.....grinds, and blocks gears at times.
Maybe a dsmer lives near you and would be willing to help out.

 

[cloead]

Seems like just having it rebuilt is going to be the best option. I have been calling local shops and they are saying up to $2,500 with parts and labor. He said that was just his guess based on not taking it apart yet but that working on a trans for a turbo vehicle is more difficult. I dont know how to pull a trans personally nor do I have the equipment to do so. Does that sound like he is charging too much?

you could buy another DSM for $2500...

either find a reasonable shop or buy a socket set and do it yourself

 

[4g63t]

First off, you need to find out why your synchro is bad. They do not magically go bad. The number one cause for failures is the wrong kind of gear fluid and your clutch dragging. You need to fix the other issues, otherwise getting a transmission fixed is a complete waste of time and money.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

buy a socket set and do it yourself

Cloead,

Please do not make false statements like this. This is very misleading to say the least. It takes a whole lot more than just a socket set.

To the OP:

You have some choices depending on your comfort levels with doing the work and your ability to come up/purchase the tools. Look at entries 7,8, and 9 (colored in yellow in the first post) to get an idea of the things you need and how you would do it yourself if you so choose.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/427853-1990-eagle-talon-sleeper.html

I will say that it was some task. One thing that is not mentioned in my How To is pressing the gear sets. At the time I did not have a press and that one part was hired out. Replacing a synchro is not really that bad in my opinion. I rebuilt the entire tranny making it a little more difficult. If you have any questions, just ask and hopefully we can get you fixed up.

The other option is to source it out like you have been looking at doing. Your best option is to ship it to a reputable shop that is accustomed to dealing with these trannies. They have prices listed and a stock rebuild is well under 2 grand.

Just for your information, every time you grind that gear, you are slowly eating away at the gear itself since the synchro can not properly align them again. This will cause you to eventually replace that gear as well.

Robert

 

[jstens2g]

I third the just getting it rebuilt unless you have the knowledge to do it your self

 

[pauleyman]

[quote you need to find out why your synchro is bad. They do not magically go bad][/quote]
All of a sudden no but they damn sure do get worn over time and thats all there is to it. It's like a brake pad under normal use.

OP you have some choices based on your mechanical ability. To anybody willing to try this, buy a good press. Mine has paid for itself so many times I can't count. bearings, bushings, tons of stuff. I rent it for a case of beer on occasion.

 

[DSM1G90]

Syncros are made of brass which is a much softer metal than steel to protect the main gears and how they get worn is mainly due to the user from abuse, not checking/changing fluids and using correct fluids, not GL-5 gear oil which eats the brass due to the high sulphur content of GL-5 fluids..et.al.

Mine is the original F5M33 and no syncro problems-shifts smooth with MT-90 .. with 189K miles on it.

To the OP: let a shop do your tranny work and use your socket set for some other work that you know how to do-don't even attempt to try if you don't know what you're doing for it could cost you more in the long run and you'll regret doing so.

Be smart by not listening to know-it-alls and use common sense.

Good luck - DSM

 

[BoostedBeaver]

To the OP: let a shop do your tranny work and use your socket set for some other work that you know how to do-don't even attempt to try if you don't know what you're doing for it could cost you more in the long run and you'll regret doing so.

Be smart by not listening to know-it-alls and use common sense.

Good luck - DSM

1st, Everyone has to start somewhere. Luckily, there is a how to with detailed pictures and all the "Know how" you could possibly need!!! It has been linked here for the OP to review. Its just like any other task and it takes time, patience, determination, and motivation among the correct tools and some reading.

2nd, Who are you to determine the mechanical level of this individual or their will to learn?? Always hiring out certain jobs is great IF that is what YOU the owner feels is best. If you want to learn and be able to know what is going on inside a tranny this is a great opportunity.

3rd, No one has claimed to know everything anywhere along the line in this thread. In fact, my post gives choices, links to posted content, and first hand experience with this subject. None of which includes knowing it all but more or less sharing the information for the OP.

Lastly, Common sense told me that my first tranny problem would not be my last so a great and valuable learning experience was at hand. You, on the other hand, see it as a hurdle not worth jumping and would hire the entire job out every time something goes wrong. You should start looking at situations as opportunities more often.

I do not want this to come off as an attack of any sort but I strongly disagree with waiting on others if you have the will and can accomplish a task yourself.

To the OP,

I am not saying that this is a task to be taken lightly. Like stated in my previous post, you can check the entries to see if you are up to the task. If you don't have the time, space, money for tools, etc it is perfectly fine to hire it out and my recommendation for that is also in the post above. To say that you can not do it is just undermining your potential ability to learn if you so desire.

Robert

 

[zelack]

Thanks for all the replys. I think first I am going to have the fluid changed out because that was never done since I first purchased this vehicle. I currently do not have the garage space to deal with taking out a trans and performing the work on it. I would like to delay doing the trans until I have the space and money for the tools but dont know if that will be the case. There are other things that need to be done on the vehicle as you can imagine (breaks, tires, exhaust, ect.) The trans works well except 2nd gear and I usually just avoid that gear for right now oh well at least it runs. I will start reading your guide Robert as from a glance it looks like you were in a similar situation that I am in now.

 

[DJ23GSX]

91s did not come with a 22 spline output so if it is indeed 22 somebody changed it. Not necessarily a big deal but it begs the question why. Unless you know the history it's just another used transmission.

I'm fairly certain from my transmission research back when I needed one is that early 91 models still had 22 spline output shafts and they changed to 23 splines in the middle of the 91 model year.

I would also agree with everyone else who suggested you just get your transmission rebuilt or beefed up. Who knows how long another used one will last you or how well it will shift once you get it in there.

According to Jacks Transmission the #1 reason for synchro failure is a clutch issue. Either its not adjusted properly causing the clutch to drag or a even a warped disc or flywheel. Jack has some great tutorial videos all about dsm clutch adjustments.

Clutch Drag Kills Synchros! – Jacks Transmissions LLC

 

[pauleyman]

If it were any 91s it would be very very few models. There is a split at the beginning of june for 90-91. You look at the 90 specific parts and all of them split and this date. The 22 spline shaft does stay for just a litlte bit longer. The NPZS 90 transmission still splits at the same date. That being said there may indeed be a 91 tranny with a 22 spline output but it wouldn't be marked npzs. It should be marked NPXV. From the looks of the parts lookup there was only about a 2 week window this might have happened so it would be stupid rare.

 

[cloead]

Cloead,

Please do not make false statements like this. This is very misleading to say the least. It takes a whole lot more than just a socket set.

How the heck is that a false statement?

Ok, a socket set, some screw drivers, and a prybar.

Excuse me for being "very misleading"

 

[BoostedBeaver]

How the heck is that a false statement?

Ok, a socket set, some screw drivers, and a prybar.

Excuse me for being "very misleading"

This is hilarious, ignorant, and again very misleading. What about a press, a tool to pull the races, a slide hammer, a race installer set, a set of micrometers to measure the solder, an air compressor, impact tools to remove the input shaft and intermediate shaft nuts, an old clutch disk welded to a socket for tightening the input shaft nut, torque wrenches, snap ring pliers, none metallic hammers, punches, odd size sockets not included in your "socket set", and etc that you will need for accomplishing this task?

We are talking about taking a transmission apart and putting it back together so that it would be useful. The tools you listed above would not even get you past the Viscosis Coupler. It is comments like this that lead members who are willing to learn down a road to regret.

Please do not give advice on a subject if you yourself are not fully capable of comprehending the task. No one here wants you to stop posting or "helping" other DSMer's but wrong and misleading information is worse than not giving any at all.

Robert

 

[DSM1G90]

DSM trannies are not like a tranny from a Ford "Model-T", with simple gearsets. More complicated than that where all the tools mention in Robert's post holds true.


..and apologies for my post as well-should be more careful.

 

[cloead]

This is hilarious, ignorant, and again very misleading. What about a press, a tool to pull the races, a slide hammer, a race installer set, a set of micrometers to measure the solder, an air compressor, impact tools to remove the input shaft and intermediate shaft nuts, an old clutch disk welded to a socket for tightening the input shaft nut, torque wrenches, snap ring pliers, none metallic hammers, punches, odd size sockets not included in your "socket set", and etc that you will need for accomplishing this task?

We are talking about taking a transmission apart and putting it back together so that it would be useful. The tools you listed above would not even get you past the Viscosis Coupler. It is comments like this that lead members who are willing to learn down a road to regret.

Please do not give advice on a subject if you yourself are not fully capable of comprehending the task. No one here wants you to stop posting or "helping" other DSMer's but wrong and misleading information is worse than not giving any at all.

Robert

All that shit by you.

I was referring to him pulling the transmission himself instead of paying a shop thousands to pull the transmission.

If you really thought I was implying that he could rebuild an entire transmission with a set of sockets you need to go bang your head into a wall a few times.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

you could buy another DSM for $2500...

either find a reasonable shop or buy a socket set and do it yourself

So the above saying was refering to just pulling the transmission? It sure does not look like it or sound like it? The shop would have to do more than just pull the transmission to fix a broken synchro.

All that shit by you.

I was referring to him pulling the transmission himself instead of paying a shop thousands to pull the transmission.

Is this really what you though after reading that a synchro was the issue and reading all the following comments by other posters?

Have it rebuilt, and you know what is going on.

Have youre rebuilt

Seems like just having it rebuilt is going to be the best option.

Then, in the same post that you replied to....

Cloead,

Please do not make false statements like this. This is very misleading to say the least. It takes a whole lot more than just a socket set.

To the OP:

You have some choices depending on your comfort levels with doing the work and your ability to come up/purchase the tools.

This post goes on to link a detailed rebuild thread!

Lastly, you stated..

All that shit by you.

I was referring to him pulling the transmission himself instead of paying a shop thousands to pull the transmission.

When the OP's only post refering to thousands of dollars states this....

Seems like just having it rebuilt is going to be the best option. I have been calling local shops and they are saying up to $2,500 with parts and labor.

I will not continue to clutter this thread in regards to your poor ability to read, comprehend and correspond your intended message. Also, cursing at a member only displays frustration and your inability to accept that the information you have given is wrong/misleading.

I hope that you will come to the realization that this is not an attack, only an effort to keep correct/good information as the only sorce of information.

We should try to revert to the topic of fixing/replacing a synchro inside the transmission since that is the actual topic of this thread.

Robert