13g auto project

[stutz43078]

Ok boys, I just picked up a 91 eclipse gs turbo from a friend. It's an automatic so as many knows its running the 13g turbo instead of the 14b with supposedly 10 less hp than the manuals. Most would say sell it and find a manual but I am intending to set it up more like an autocross car more than the more usual street scene drag car. This is basically why I am sticking with the automatic. Here's what I plan to do to it before I get her back on the street.

-dejon intake
-dejon smic
-dejon upper and lower intercooler pipes
-hacked 1g maf
-stock 1g bov
-14b tubular turbo manifold
-13g port matched to manifold
-tubular o2 housing with dump pipe
-3 inch downpipe
-3 inch exhaust
-power steering removal
-a/c removal
-egr removal
-balance shaft removal
-minor weight reductions
-stock fpr and injectors
-190lph fuel pump
-msd wires
-ngk plugs
-mechanical boost gauge
-boost controller set to 15psi

I CHANGE MY MIND ALOT, SO THIS LIST CAN CHANGE ALOT. HAHA.

As of right now I have the car stripped for body work and about to start the removal processes under the hood. Besides that my friend already added the open air element, turbo header, o2 housing with dump pipe, and the underdrive pulley. He just never put on the new belt and got her running again. I also didn't list the suspension upgrades I plan to due because they are irrelevant. Ok, to my point, does anyone have a clue where I would be roughly on horsepower and 1/4 times? Has anyone else done this before? I am guessing the 4 removal processes I planning on doing will make up the difference for it being an auto, so I was guessing 300-320 horsepower while running 12.9-13.2 on a quarter mile. Any input would be very well appreciated on the subject. Thanks.

 

[juanpac0]

At 15psi on a 13g you'd be lucky to have 200 horsepower at the wheels.

 

[blakktalon]

I like that you are trying to utilize the 13g, but 300-320 hp out of it? I dont know if thats possible, i have a 13g lying in my garage and it is considerably smaller than the 14b/16g, both the inlet and the exhaust housing are smaller, i would look for a compressor map before setting a hp level. Good luck though and keep us posted ive always wanted to see the 13g pushed to its limits.

 

[stutz43078]

I like that you are trying to utilize the 13g, but 300-320 hp out of it? I dont know if thats possible, i have a 13g lying in my garage and it is considerably smaller than the 14b/16g, both the inlet and the exhaust housing are smaller, i would look for a compressor map before setting a hp level. Good luck though and keep us posted ive always wanted to see the 13g pushed to its limits.

Well I have heard of the boys with the 2nd gen t25 eclipses have been able to hit low 300's at the crank. With that information I assumed since the 13g is slightly bigger than the t25 it could also hit the same numbers. Is there something I am missing in my equation to my assumption? Thanks for the input.

At 15psi on a 13g you'd be luck to have 200 horsepower at the wheels.

I know I won't be hitting 300 at the wheels, but I was refering to crank power. And are you saying I should run higher boost? I think the most I have heard of anyone running through a 13g is 18psi but they said that they were sure that was too much but they upgraded before they blew the turbo. I do plan on upgrading the turbo to either a 14b with 550cc injectors or a 16g with 660cc injectors, but thats later down the road. I think I will be satisfied for the 13g until my funds can afford the upgrades. Got to start somewhere you kno?

 

[chanley talon]

I would run 110 octane and just unhook the boost controller to get everything it had out of it. You should at least go to 450cc injectors cause there cheap. You need a shift kit from ipt and a manumatic box it will greatly improve your transmission shift times also put a cooler on it. I dont see low 13s possible with out some sort of weight reduction. Im guess it could run 14.2 -13.8 if you have it just right and maxxed out.


By the way i love automatics.

 

[habitatguy187]

With autoX you're going to want to keep PS and get a fmic. Forget the lightweight pulley's, you might get 2hp out of them. The 13g really makes a dsm zippy, I would love to have a 1g awd auto for a daily, but like stated if you do get it to hit even 260hp the turbo probably won't hold out for long.

 

[Dsmj89]

Wrong. The t25 is actually a hair bigger than the 13g and has a slight bit more potential.

 

[JusMX141]

-lightweight underdrive pulley

If your internal rotating assembly isn't balanced, you'll break your crankshaft by using an all-aluminum crank pulley. This is not just hearsay- there are lots of threads out there where it has happened to otherwise perfectly-running stock engines in as little as 2k miles after installing the aluminum pulley.

Plenty of other things would yeild more of a power gain per dollar spent (like a bigger turbo).

Wrong. The t25 is actually a hair bigger than the 13g and has a slight bit more potential.

Interestingly enough, no.

The T25 has a bigger turbine housing inlet, but the wheel size of both the compressor and turbine is slightly smaller on the T25. I'd be more than happy to post pics if you don't believe me.

 

[toofast82]

The 13g flows around 25lb/min, so it should be capable of ~250whp or a little over 300 crank horsepower.
Combine that with a Cyclone intake in a light car and it should be great for autox.
Don't put the underdrive crank pulley on there, it is harmful.
A front mount wouldn't hurt if you are serious about racing it.
It would be interesting to see what someone could get out of a 13g setup with the right parts and e85?

 

[bluegs03]

-open air element
-intake pipe
-intercooler piping upgrade
-turbo header its not a header its actually called a manifold
-o2 housing with dump pipe
-3" downpipe
-3" test pipe
-3' magnaflow custom exhaust
-power steering removal
-a/c removal
-egr removal
-balance shaft delete
-lightweight altenator pulley not really worth it imo
-lightweigh underdrive pulley dont do this it will cause more problems that solve
-mechanical boost gauge
-mechanical boost controller (going to run 15 psi)
-minor weight reduction

As of right now I have the car stripped for body work and about to start the removal processes under the hood. Besides that my friend already added the open air element, turbo header, o2 housing with dump pipe, and the underdrive pulley. He just never put on the new belt and got her running again. I also didn't list the suspension upgrades I plan to due because they are irrelevant. Ok, to my point, does anyone have a clue where I would be roughly on horsepower and 1/4 times? every single car is different and it is impossible to tell what yours will be, also this is called bench racing and its against the rules, wanted to let you know so that you can correct it before a mod gets mad.

Has anyone else done this before? yes
I am guessing the 4 removal processes I planning on doing will make up the difference for it being an auto, what is a "4 removal processes?
so I was guessing 300-320 horsepower while running 12.9-13.2 on a quarter mile. yea um im not saying thats not possible but it will be mighty difficult, maybe with some nitrous oxide, wait no with a ton of nitrous you can hit any goal.

Any input would be very well appreciated on the subject. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

 

[stutz43078]

I would run 110 octane and just unhook the boost controller to get everything it had out of it. You should at least go to 450cc injectors cause there cheap. You need a shift kit from ipt and a manumatic box it will greatly improve your transmission shift times also put a cooler on it. I dont see low 13s possible with out some sort of weight reduction. Im guess it could run 14.2 -13.8 if you have it just right and maxxed out.


By the way i love automatics.

I actually thought about upgrading to a 14b and 450 injectors right off the back, but I heard I couldn't do that withought buying a SAFC. Weight reduction was listed up top, so no worries there. And about just cutting the controller and letting the turbo run loose, that sounds like it wouldn't last too long but I will also keep it in mind. Thanks.

If your internal rotating assembly isn't balanced, you'll break your crankshaft by using an all-aluminum crank pulley. This is not just hearsay- there are lots of threads out there where it has happened to otherwise perfectly-running stock engines in as little as 2k miles after installing the aluminum pulley.

Plenty of other things would yeild more of a power gain per dollar spent (like a bigger turbo).


Interestingly enough, no.

The T25 has a bigger turbine housing inlet, but the wheel size of both the compressor and turbine is slightly smaller on the T25. I'd be more than happy to post pics if you don't believe me.

Ok then, no lightweight pulleys then. Your not the first one I have heard this from so I will take your guys' word on it. Also thanks for the specs on the 13g and t25. I have read in forums that it went either way, but read more that said the 13g was bigger so I ran with it. Thanks for clearing that up.

The 13g flows around 25lb/min, so it should be capable of ~250whp or a little over 300 crank horsepower.
Combine that with a Cyclone intake in a light car and it should be great for autox.
Don't put the underdrive crank pulley on there, it is harmful.
A front mount wouldn't hurt if you are serious about racing it.
It would be interesting to see what someone could get out of a 13g setup with the right parts and e85?

There we go, those are the specs I was looking for. Thanks alot! Already dropping the pulley ideas. I have thought about a front mount but don't know if my budget will allow it. Yea, I haven't seen any good forums on the 13g so I thought I would be the guinea pig haha. And I'm not following on the e85? Could you give me a heads up on it? Thanks.

 

[donniekak]

Running 2 maxxed out 13g's on an awd stealth, on e-85 i could barely trap in the low 11x"s. This is fully maxxed out. Boost on a 3 liter with two 13g's spiked at 26 psi, and dropped to about 17. Most stealth/3000gt cars running 13g's struggle to break 400 whp with 2 of them.

 

[stutz43078]

-open air element
-intake pipe
-intercooler piping upgrade
-turbo header its not a header its actually called a manifold
-o2 housing with dump pipe
-3" downpipe
-3" test pipe
-3' magnaflow custom exhaust
-power steering removal
-a/c removal
-egr removal
-balance shaft delete
-lightweight altenator pulley not really worth it imo
-lightweigh underdrive pulley dont do this it will cause more problems that solve
-mechanical boost gauge
-mechanical boost controller (going to run 15 psi)
-minor weight reduction

As of right now I have the car stripped for body work and about to start the removal processes under the hood. Besides that my friend already added the open air element, turbo header, o2 housing with dump pipe, and the underdrive pulley. He just never put on the new belt and got her running again. I also didn't list the suspension upgrades I plan to due because they are irrelevant. Ok, to my point, does anyone have a clue where I would be roughly on horsepower and 1/4 times? every single car is different and it is impossible to tell what yours will be, also this is called bench racing and its against the rules, wanted to let you know so that you can correct it before a mod gets mad.

Has anyone else done this before? yes
I am guessing the 4 removal processes I planning on doing will make up the difference for it being an auto, what is a "4 removal processes?
so I was guessing 300-320 horsepower while running 12.9-13.2 on a quarter mile. yea um im not saying thats not possible but it will be mighty difficult, maybe with some nitrous oxide, wait no with a ton of nitrous you can hit any goal.

Any input would be very well appreciated on the subject. Thanks.

[/QUOTE]

Header, manifold, tomato, tamato, haha. I'll correct it though. I dropped the pulleys off the list, thanks for the heads up. Could you define the bench racing? I have an idea of what it is from my comment, but for future reference I would like to clearly know what it is so it doesn't happen again. The 4 removal processes are the ones in the list: power steering, a/c, egr valve, balance shafts. haha, and we all think about that shot of nitrous everytime we think we are too slow, then we go drink a v8. Thanks alot for the input.

Wrong. The t25 is actually a hair bigger than the 13g and has a slight bit more potential.

Just curious, but what do you mean more potential? Do you mean it has more internal upgrades out there? or it is just better all around? Thanks.

 

[Dsmj89]

I had a 91 tsi awd auto and obviously, it had the 13g, and compared to the t25 when i got my 2nd dsm, i felt the t25 had more push up top than the 13g.
Then again, that was just my seat of the pants experience. This is ignoring the fact of turbo response of both, just top speed performance.

 

[lnvisiblejon]

get some pics up of all your progress!

 

[habitatguy187]

I had a 91 tsi awd auto and obviously, it had the 13g, and compared to the t25 when i got my 2nd dsm, i felt the t25 had more push up top than the 13g.

Probably due to 2G's having a higher compression ratio compared to 1G's.

 

[Dsmj89]

Probably due to 2G's having a higher compression ratio compared to 1G's.

Probably but like i said, it felt better up top, im not talking about down low power.

 

[habitatguy187]

Probably but like i said, it felt better up top, im not talking about down low power.

Higher compression will help all over the place, not just down low.

 

[JusMX141]

Probably but like i said, it felt better up top, im not talking about down low power.

Keep in mind the 1G's 13G has a 5cm turbine housing standard, which has an inlet about the size of a 50-cent piece. ANY turbo with a 6cm turbine housing (T25 included) will feel as though it pulls harder on top despite wheel size simply because there is less backpressure in the manifold.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

yes there is alot more to the equation than just seat of your pants feel. either way your still looking at 200 or so at the wheels, which really isnt that bad, your auto will be able to handle it, plus you dont have the huge traction issues and such. I do recomend extensive weight loss though, it helps so much, and is free, or if you sell the parts it can actually earn you money. I know its your dd, but its not really the creature comfort oriented anyway, so just leave the seats and pull the rest. I got a dd like that, and its more htan managable

 

[dsmmikej]

I would think he might get more if he put a 14b 6cm housing on it (if possible). It would still look exactly the same on the outside and still behave like a 13b with a little more top end, especially if trying to keep it stock for autox'ing, to get that extra ump without adding aftermarket parts.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

yes, he knows that obviously a bigger turbo will show bigger gains, but he is trying to use what he has. the economy is hurting everyone right now.

 

[popwarbunny111]

You should get a 14b with a 2g maf and 550cc injectors to push back fuel cut.
You'll get more power at higher RPM's with a 14b anyways. little boy turbos are mainly for that low
RRM jazz. But good lack BABY!

 

[stutz43078]

See I do want to upgrade it to a 14b later down the road, but mountaineerjeff gets my point, low on money and I have to start somewhere, might as well start with what I have. Most will say that upgrade won't cost me that much, but most of my money is going into suspension work. As far as everyone asking about weight reduction, heres what I plan on doing: remove everything from the back of the front seats to the rear of the car, remove both washer fluid resevoirs, remove the balance shafts, remove the powersteering, remove the air conditioning, lighter wheels, and a lighter battery. Is there any I am missing? I know that I didn't throw fuel cell in here, but it isn't being built for drag so that doesn't matter. Thanks for all the input.

 

[JusMX141]

I would think he might get more if he put a 14b 6cm housing on it (if possible). It would still look exactly the same on the outside and still behave like a 13b with a little more top end, especially if trying to keep it stock for autox'ing, to get that extra ump without adding aftermarket parts.

That would be great if it were possible, but it's not. We're talking about two completely different turbos with different size turbine wheels and center housings.