13g auto project

[stutz43078]

Ok boys, I just picked up a 91 eclipse gs turbo from a friend. It's an automatic so as many knows its running the 13g turbo instead of the 14b with supposedly 10 less hp than the manuals. Most would say sell it and find a manual but I am intending to set it up more like an autocross car more than the more usual street scene drag car. This is basically why I am sticking with the automatic. Here's what I plan to do to it before I get her back on the street.

-dejon intake
-dejon smic
-dejon upper and lower intercooler pipes
-hacked 1g maf
-stock 1g bov
-14b tubular turbo manifold
-13g port matched to manifold
-tubular o2 housing with dump pipe
-3 inch downpipe
-3 inch exhaust
-power steering removal
-a/c removal
-egr removal
-balance shaft removal
-minor weight reductions
-stock fpr and injectors
-190lph fuel pump
-msd wires
-ngk plugs
-mechanical boost gauge
-boost controller set to 15psi

I CHANGE MY MIND ALOT, SO THIS LIST CAN CHANGE ALOT. HAHA.

As of right now I have the car stripped for body work and about to start the removal processes under the hood. Besides that my friend already added the open air element, turbo header, o2 housing with dump pipe, and the underdrive pulley. He just never put on the new belt and got her running again. I also didn't list the suspension upgrades I plan to due because they are irrelevant. Ok, to my point, does anyone have a clue where I would be roughly on horsepower and 1/4 times? Has anyone else done this before? I am guessing the 4 removal processes I planning on doing will make up the difference for it being an auto, so I was guessing 300-320 horsepower while running 12.9-13.2 on a quarter mile. Any input would be very well appreciated on the subject. Thanks.

 

[stutz43078]

Keep in mind the 1G's 13G has a 5cm turbine housing standard, which has an inlet about the size of a 50-cent piece. ANY turbo with a 6cm turbine housing (T25 included) will feel as though it pulls harder on top despite wheel size simply because there is less backpressure in the manifold.

Is it possible to port out the housing from a 5cm to a 6cm?

 

[jimmythesaint]

See I do want to upgrade it to a 14b later down the road, but mountaineerjeff gets my point, low on money and I have to start somewhere, might as well start with what I have. Most will say that upgrade won't cost me that much, but most of my money is going into suspension work. As far as everyone asking about weight reduction, heres what I plan on doing: remove everything from the back of the front seats to the rear of the car, remove both washer fluid resevoirs, remove the balance shafts, remove the powersteering, remove the air conditioning, lighter wheels, and a lighter battery. Is there any I am missing? I know that I didn't throw fuel cell in here, but it isn't being built for drag so that doesn't matter. Thanks for all the input.

Low on money?! A 14b can be had for $75, which would make it the cheapest upgrade on your list (and likely the highest performing next to weight loss). And an automatic would be crap on autoX racing. Thats when you would want a manual. Our automatic transmissions are infinatly too slow at shifting/downshifting (even when you manualy shift the damn thing) to be of any use on an autocross course. And lets not forget the heat buildup of constant shifting would scorch an automatic transmission in no time.
Add this to your upgrade list:
The transmission cooler of Jesus. (and his equally impressive oil cooler)

But I suppose if you threw 2 or 3 grand into an automatic transmission it would perform well enough then to hold its own.

Really if you are so low on money that a 14b is ruled out, then maybe this isnt for you. Kudos for keeping the 13g though, Id like to see how this progresses. Make sure you update this thread.

 

[velocitysport31]

Hey I give you props for building an automatic, there is nothing wrong with that, just go to itp or level 10 and get the valve bodies upgraded you shift just as fast as a manual. They also sell a electronic shifter box you can use to set up paddle shifters.

 

[stutz43078]

Low on money?! A 14b can be had for $75, which would make it the cheapest upgrade on your list (and likely the highest performing next to weight loss). And an automatic would be crap on autoX racing. Thats when you would want a manual. Our automatic transmissions are infinatly too slow at shifting/downshifting (even when you manualy shift the damn thing) to be of any use on an autocross course. And lets not forget the heat buildup of constant shifting would scorch an automatic transmission in no time.
Add this to your upgrade list:
The transmission cooler of Jesus. (and his equally impressive oil cooler)

But I suppose if you threw 2 or 3 grand into an automatic transmission it would perform well enough then to hold its own.

Really if you are so low on money that a 14b is ruled out, then maybe this isnt for you. Kudos for keeping the 13g though, Id like to see how this progresses. Make sure you update this thread.

Do take in mind this upgrade will cost me more than just the 14b turbo. I have to take into account ill need oil lines, fuel injectors, and I heard that you had to get some type of fuel controller because the ecu cant make up for the difference in fuel and air flow. By the way I do plan on throwing that money into the transmission, and also about the same amount into the suspension, I'd rather spend money there then on the power adders themselves. Thanks alot for the input though.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Probably but like i said, it felt better up top, im not talking about down low power.

A fwd versus an awd is going to feel better up top. Even with those smaller sized turbos. Maybe you forgot about that.

t25 maxes out at like 14-15 psi, after that its all hot air
What does a 13g max out at?

Do take in mind this upgrade will cost me more than just the 14b turbo. I have to take into account ill need oil lines, fuel injectors, and I heard that you had to get some type of fuel controller because the ecu cant make up for the difference in fuel and air flow. By the way I do plan on throwing that money into the transmission, and also about the same amount into the suspension, I'd rather spend money there then on the power adders themselves. Thanks a lot for the input though.

I think your oil lines should be compatible with the 13g all around. They are almost the same as a 14b and 16g. Speaking with j-pipe and oil line routing. A good used 14b can be had for $150. But I totally understand that you are working within your budget. Getting a rebuilt auto tranny will do you wonders over upgrading to a 14b I think. Plus you want to push this turbo you have. Then take the leap to other turbo's later like all tuners do.

Walk it out with that sucker. Auto awd's do great things.

 

[stutz43078]

A fwd versus an awd is going to feel better up top. Even with those smaller sized turbos. Maybe you forgot about that.

t25 maxes out at like 14-15 psi, after that its all hot air
What does a 13g max out at?



I think your oil lines should be compatible with the 13g all around. They are almost the same as a 14b and 16g. Speaking with j-pipe and oil line routing. A good used 14b can be had for $150. But I totally understand that you are working within your budget. Getting a rebuilt auto tranny will do you wonders over upgrading to a 14b I think. Plus you want to push this turbo you have. Then take the leap to other turbo's later like all tuners do.

Walk it out with that sucker. Auto awd's do great things.

Well I guess that make sense. The fact that after 15 psi your just blowing air that is with the t25. I have heard people running the 13g on 18psi daily, but they all said they didn't leave it on for long, so no one knows how reliable it is. But if you think about it, if the 13g has a smaller exhaust housing, and it's larger than the t25, maybe it can build up more boost without blowing out extra air before it shifts? I don't know, it makes sense to me.

 

[91tizzy]

Bottom line___
13g is good to around 18 psi with supporting mods.....automatics hold power much better stock for stock than 5-speeds..the oil/water lines at the turbo are smaller with the 13g compared to 14b/16g turbos....some miss-info that i wanted to clear up..as stated 25lbs per minute is obtainable and with meth or e85 that should put you at around 280 or so at the flywheel.

I pushed my 13g VERY hard and it saw spikes to around 26 psi dropping to 18-19 by redline with not much done to the exhaust....little bastard made a ton of torque and was extremely good at daily duties....dont expect to rev the setup much past 6000....everything is extremely choked because of the tiny exhaust volute.

 

[stutz43078]

Bottom line___
13g is good to around 18 psi with supporting mods.....automatics hold power much better stock for stock than 5-speeds..the oil/water lines at the turbo are smaller with the 13g compared to 14b/16g turbos....some miss-info that i wanted to clear up..as stated 25lbs per minute is obtainable and with meth or e85 that should put you at around 280 or so at the flywheel.

I pushed my 13g VERY hard and it saw spikes to around 26 psi dropping to 18-19 by redline with not much done to the exhaust....little bastard made a ton of torque and was extremely good at daily duties....dont expect to rev the setup much past 6000....everything is extremely choked because of the tiny exhaust volute.

Quick question on this, did you have to upgrade the fuel system at all to support the 18 psi?

 

[350war]

You can remove the carpet and sound deading lots of weigth there(put in some felt from wal-mart). Remove the door braces.Remove the hood braces. Remove any gas struts(i.e. to hold up the hatch). Radio. Remember if you are pulling the balance shafts to change the water pump while your in there also timing belt just a little insurance. Solid motor mounts are nice too. Oh you could also change exhuast lots of weight there.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I have to jump in here on the 13g issue..They spool really fast compared to a 16g.. Now one of you said the 13 could support 26psi spikes..That's pretty crazy..I blew up a 13g learning how to use a boost controller hitting 23 psi..

Auto cross with a 13g...It could be done..A 6cm turbine housing instead of the 5cm..Since the car is auto the 13g insta spool will help..Unless your trying to get to 7 grand,and keep whatever psi...

Also if your looking at shifting yourself, upgrade the cooler at least and pm EagleTalonTim for the shift box..

 

[GST95]

Has anybody ran a 3" turbo back exhaust on a 13g? I know it creates a lot of boost creep on a 14b is why i ask.

I think the auto would be good for autox with a couple of upgrades. Like suggested earlier, id at least upgrade the cooler, add a shift kit, run a road surge shift box or if your memory is good 2 toggle switches can do the same thing. I plan to do a little autox with my car after i switch it to auto.

Another thing to consider on your fuel injectors is the fuel pressure on a 1g auto is 43psi so the 390cc injectors flow close to what the 450cc injectors do at the stock manual pressure of 37psi. IIRC, there is only about a 25cc difference in actual flow given the pressure difference.

 

[habitatguy187]

Quick question on this, did you have to upgrade the fuel system at all to support the 18 psi?

All you really need to do if everything is in good working order, is do a fuel pump rewire and turn the boost up until you hit fuel cut. I'm not sure if it will be with a higher psi since it's only a 13g turbo or if the auto ecu will lower the allowed amount of airflow since it has smaller injectors.

Bottom line though, you're asking for trouble/going to be fighting heat issues if you run it higher than 15-16psi.

 

[Drifte]

I have a 13g auto fwd parts car. Turbo appears in excellent condition surprisingly. If you need some parts let me know, all I bought the car for was the head so I could build one on the side. I'd probably look around for a 14b it spools plenty quick for autocross and is all around better. Good luck with the build.

 

[tunethis]

I also have a 13g auto car. I'm running it at 14psi. I figured that was about all it was good for. I don't want to break the little thing. It's funny because at even 12psi, it felt pretty slow but at 14psi, the car really woke up. I also have a Walbro 190lph fuel pump, 450 injectors, manual fpr, and 5 spd ecu. Everything else is stock. If I can find a local AWD dyno, I'll see what kind of number's it gets before I ugrade to a larger turbo.

 

[chanley talon]

I would take the turbo off and port the turbine housing out as far as possible to get all the air in and out it can. I would take the 02 housing and port it to death. I would not be afraid at ALL to run the stock fuel pump and 390 injectors at 17 psi. It can take it i know. It just doesn't puff enough air to hurt. also take the exhaust manifold and port the exhaust whole out as large as you went on the turbine housing side. Thats the only way to get all you can out of it factory. But at the track buy 110 octane race fuel if possible then just turn it all the way up .

 

[stutz43078]

Ok, you said something that intrigued me, a 5 speed ecu? Didn't know you could do that. It would be nice to slap one of those in when I upgrade to the 14b and 450cc injectors instead of purchasing a safc. Well actually it may just be better to go with the safc, I am guessing the ecu probably ran you 400 and I could get a safc for 500-550. So many decisions.

 

[habitatguy187]

I am guessing the ecu probably ran you 400 and I could get a safc for 500-550. So many decisions.

You can get an non-eprom ecu for ~$70 shipped from the classifieds, and an safc for anywhere from $120-200 depending on how patient you are. I'd go with the ecu though, and get an eprom for future use. I remember telling myself I wouldn't need an eprom, so I spent some money to get my non-eprom fixed, and now waddaya know? I bought an eprom .

Also the ecu will be better than the safc in that it won't add timing with 450s like the safc would.

 

[maximumbob]

Most importantly and not discussed is building the car to the specific class you plan on running in autocross. Also how can suspension mods be irrelevant on a car being built "like an autocross car"? I am not trying to discourage you but realize that all these mods will put in street mod and that's a pretty steep pax.

 

[stutz43078]

Most importantly and not discussed is building the car to the specific class you plan on running in autocross. Also how can suspension mods be irrelevant on a car being built "like an autocross car"? I am not trying to discourage you but realize that all these mods will put in street mod and that's a pretty steep pax.

Ok, you took that wrong haha. I do have extensive suspension mods in mind but here I was simply talking about horsepower therefore I felt no reason to list out all my suspension mods. Do you get me?

You can get an non-eprom ecu for ~$70 shipped from the classifieds, and an safc for anywhere from $120-200 depending on how patient you are. I'd go with the ecu though, and get an eprom for future use. I remember telling myself I wouldn't need an eprom, so I spent some money to get my non-eprom fixed, and now waddaya know? I bought an eprom .

Also the ecu will be better than the safc in that it won't add timing with 450s like the safc would.

So how much did the eprom cost ya?

 

[habitatguy187]

So how much did the eprom cost ya?

$200, but it was rebuilt by a shop. I bought it from member on here donniekak, he sells quite a few ecu's I believe.

 

[richardc475]

If you decide to go eprom send me a pm, I have one from a 90.

 

[stutz43078]

Well I decided that I am going to buy everything I would need to do a 14b upgrade, but still stick with the 13g. Figured it would squeeze out every last horse I can out of it. I figured since I was going to try to get it done before winter, but decided just to have it ready by the time the snow melts, I would have a little more time and money to put into it. So I updated the first post, so give it a look over and give me your thoughts. Thanks guys.