113 counts of knock with evoscan!!!

[TSiTalonawd96]

So before I get a million wtf did you do's, I just bought the car recently. Im running 16psi with a hybrid 16g, stock fuel, FMIC blah blah. This graph is only 1st and 2nd gear but in 3rd I had 113 counts of knock around 6500rpm and more down lower than are on this graph. Isnt the timing supposed to be like 20 degrees? not 30? Also, as the timing decreases the knock increases (around 4500rpmish): isnt that backwards? Any ideas?

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[VETTE_50_TH]

Your car should be dead right now. And timing should decrease as knock increases. Timing is pulled to save your motor. Timing advance is what gives the car more power put simply. But as the motor encounters knock, its pulled to stop detonation. With 113 counts of knock, which i dont know how thats possible, you should have negative timing. Jesus, i thought the most knock you could get was 48 or something.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

Thanks^ Didn't think of it that way. I wonder why in the heck im getting so many counts of knock? And shouldn't I turn the timing down some or at least check base timing? I have no AFC yet so im running between 9.5 to 1 and 10.4 to 1 under WOT

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

I would read and read until you understand how timing advance works and base timing is measured. Go to vfaq and read up. Or just search here. I would first test for boost leaks. Set your base timing. Retard if necessary. And turn your boost down to stock.

Oh, and that could be phantom knock such as a bad bearing or something. How does the motor sould at idle? I would also replace your plugs and wires if you havent lately.

Thats really rich. 10.4 to 1 is rich. WAY to rich. You need to be around a 11. And how are you measuring your AFR?

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

I know how timing works im an A&P mechanic I just freaked out and was looking at the timing instead of the whole picture. I just don't understand why im getting so much knock. I dont want to turn down the boost. If I did that I might as well get a escort.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

If you dont want to turn down your boost then you want to blow up your motor. Simple as that.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

Right but there must be a reason for this. I was just thinking. My wideband is going completely lean under WOT recently after a few seconds. I thought maybe it was the 02 sensor getting dirty or something. Im gonna go log AFR's real quick and let you know what it says. Maybe im getting somewhere

 

[killab443]

what kind of condition is your knock sensor in? Have you ever replaced it?

 

[jrohner]

I would turn the boost way down and see if it helps. If it does, slowly increase boost and see how much boost it can handle without knock. From there you have to figure out why there's knock -- too much boost for your setup/fuel (hot air), too much timing, running out of fuel, etc. 16psi on a 16G with no fueling mods is pushing it. What do you mean by hybrid 16G?

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

Ok so I just took it out and watched the AFR's. At 16psi under WOT I was at 9.55 and with the boost back to stock around 10psi it was at 9.60. So I obviously have no fuel problem and my injector duty cycle is only 83% at 16psi. Could a lifter tick trigger the knock sensor? Is 30 degrees timing way too high? Nobody has answered that yet. Is this some kind of rich phantom nija knock? Im lost

 

[jrohner]

Well is the knock the same at lower boost?

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

Exactly the same except its hitting its peak at 4krpm instead of 4500.

 

[GooeyGus]

30 degrees is fine in the lower revs. I've seen mine as high as 40 while cruising.

At WOT in the higher revs, a good healthy amount of timing is in the high teens or low 20's

I would suspect you are getting phantom knock somewhere, or your knock sensor needs replacing. Do you ever pick up knock while cruising under normal conditions?

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

So my timing is pretty good. Not sure if im getting knock just crusing. Ill have to check tomorrow on my way to work. I have lifter tick. Sometimes bad sometimes you cant even really hear it. Is it possible its reading that? I may try replacing it if all else fails.

 

[slow4g6392tsi]

Ya I would definitely say it's picking something else up. On my friends Evo he could not figure out why he was getting knock between shifts but finally found out every time he shifted the downpipe would hit a piece of sub frame or something. I highly doubt it's real knock.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

^^Thats what im starting to think. The only thing is, is this knock is causing the ECU to retard the timing hurting performance... Im leaning towards lifter tick...

 

[ziggo0]

Try taking off from a stop and watch what it does, not WOT either, just part throttle. Also try cruising for a minute then get on the gas a little (part throttle again). It looks like phantom knock, but at WOT...that doesn't make sense.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

Will do. I'll let ya'll know tomorrow

 

[One Equals Two]

The first thing I thought it was was a "joke" thread about how the computer was messed up or a photoshop gag. Anyway, I am pretty sure 113 counts of knock would destroy anything. I set my CEL to come on at 8 counts of knock to be safe, as (correct me if I'm wrong) 12 is starting to push it.

Loud lifter tick would make sense, but remember, what the knock sensor picks up often we can't hear, so it could be anything else.

 

[DSMopar]

Umm is everyone seeing the same image I am? I'm seeing a whole 9 or 10 counts of knock at 4500 RPM.... woopy...

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

^^If you look at the top right corner it says AVERAGES. If I change that to peak values you will see on this particular run only in 1st and 2nd gear it hit 34 knocks at 4500rpm. On my first run in 3rd gear were 67 knocks at 4600rpm and 113 knocks 6800rpm.

Also I did some logging while driving normal and I start getting knock right at 2K and by 2500rpm im getting 20 counts then it slowly goes down to about 10 until 3500rpm and drops off again.

Then I did a run under about 1/4 throttle all the way to 6K and saw 10 counts of knock around 5K and 20 counts at 6K. Im starting to think its either my knock sensor or its picking up lifter tick. Other than that the engine is quieter than a mouse.

 

[skatershawn]

If I did that I might as well get a escort

Hey.... i had a stock 91 escort gt that smoked many slightly modded civics...!!
91 escort gt has some balls!!

and like said before, i owuld check you sensor, see if that helps! if not im sure its pickking up knock from something else, cause 113 counts is off the charts crazy!
Im not to well known with working on timing and knock, but i do know 113 counts even 67 counts is extremely high, so im backing what they say to help you from blowing you sh*t man!

Good luck!

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

^^Haha. I was waitin for someone to say somethin. I have the boost turned all the way down now and its still knockin like crazy. I dont think its actual knock or my engine would be gone. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't beat it unmercessly. The only thing is, is I need to figure out whats causing it to pickup this knock because im sure its hurting my performance by retarding the timing.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Rev your car up slowly to around 4.5k and see if you here any pinging.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

^^Quiet... I just did some more logs, despite my ridiculous knock that I think must be phantom knock, I turned the boost up to 20psi. (For some strange reason injector duty cycle is only in the mid to high 80's with stock injectors and pump?????) At the time the lifters were not ticking that I could hear and my knock was way down. The highest it got to was 20 at 3k then went down to 10 knocks until about 5K. Then it went up to 109 counts at 5500rpm. (The rpm changes were I have the most knock almost every log)

This car has me so confused... Somehow im turning up the boost to 20psi with no problems as far as fuel goes--with the stock fuel system and im getting over 100 counts of knock no matter if I turn it back to stock boost or not.