113 counts of knock with evoscan!!!

[TSiTalonawd96]

So before I get a million wtf did you do's, I just bought the car recently. Im running 16psi with a hybrid 16g, stock fuel, FMIC blah blah. This graph is only 1st and 2nd gear but in 3rd I had 113 counts of knock around 6500rpm and more down lower than are on this graph. Isnt the timing supposed to be like 20 degrees? not 30? Also, as the timing decreases the knock increases (around 4500rpmish): isnt that backwards? Any ideas?

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[skatershawn]

haha its true.. it has the madza 323 motor in it and some jdm motors came turbo charged with stock 210hp... and there is PLENTY of parts to mod it with!
and look at the escort cosworth... beast!

ANYWAYS back the the OP...

Get an automotive stethoscope and see if you can hear and loud ticking and point where it may be coming from! maybe that could help you pin point something out that may be messing with you knock sensor! And YES im sure it pulling back timing for 67 counts at 4600rpms is destroying you performance!!

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Again, how are you logging with evoscan. Do you have a 98-99 ecu? you really need to go through the car thouroghly rather than skipping all over the place.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

Its a 96 talon with a 96ECU. I had to change it from 26 to 3E obviously. I have looked this car over throughly??? I know everything the guy did to it. I have every receipt to everything hes done to it from back when he bought it brand new. Not sure what your gettin at there?

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

I honestly think you need new plugs and wires and to boost leak test the shit out of it. If you are turning the boost up and still are getting rich AFR's and your IDC's ar in the 80's on stock injectors, doesnt that make you think something is wrong. I ran 450s on my evo316g and had nearly 100%idc at 15 psi. You are running more and have less idc. Your car isnt majical, you have something wrong. Boostleak test and then come back with results. Dont post anything anymore until you do so.

Youre getting so much knock becuase you are running so damn rich.

 

[aspekt9]

I had a similar issue a few months ago. I would randomly when driving hit like 130 counts of knock and then it would immediately shoot back to 0. I could actually feel the car hesitating when that happened it was really bizarre. What's even more bizarre is the car would only hesitate and hit a high count like that when I had my logged plugged into the diagnostic port. I know this would be impossible for you to test if your car isn't doing weird stuff when you hit that high knock count but just a suggestion.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

Youre getting so much knock becuase you are running so damn rich.


^^ How is this so if straight of the assembly line they run 9.5 to 1? Then every person with a 4g motor would be rich knocking. I just changed my plugs and wires about a month ago and just installed my front mount recently. I know every connection is perfectly tight and sealed.

 

[sillylepricon37]

Its gotta be. This happend to me last night. Except it wasn't 113 (wow) it was 36. And I had it richened and at 4 degrees of timing. No matter what i did it knocked the same. Soooooo I think i have a boost leak pop out of nowhere.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

I hope you guys are right. Im going to do a pressure test this weekend. I'll keep you posted. Unless im not allowed to post

 

[delta448]

EDIT:
post edited due to wrong information

I found it. And you're right. Sorry for the confusion.

95-97 ECUs use 3E knock address
98+ all use 26

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

^^95-97 ECU requires 3E. 98 and up requires 26

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Every couple months i post the same thing. Change the plugs and wires and do a BLT. What do you know the car runs good.

 

[delta448]

So now that I've had enough free time to read the entire thread and not just skim through it haphazardly, I'll throw my $0.02 in the pot.

I set my CEL to come on at 8 counts of knock to be safe, as (correct me if I'm wrong) 12 is starting to push it.

Any amount of knock is bad, there's no "safe" amount.

Most tuners set the CEL flash to correlate to the nearest whole degree of pulled timing. IIRC, 3 counts equals 1 degree of timing pulled.

I dont think its actual knock or my engine would be gone. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't beat it unmercessly.

Don't be so sure just yet, 4G63s can take a crapload of abuse before they self-destruct. I've seen these engines run for quite a while even with rod knock from spun bearings. I've even seen engines go as far as when crankwalk became so bad that the CPS sensor was eaten/milled by it's trigger, the missing signal being the only reason the engine wouldn't run.

Have you checked the condition of the knock sensor itself? Leaking any goo?

I would do as skatershawn suggested and use a mechanic's stethoscope or a set of det cans to try and locate any true knock, or at least determine if it's real or phantom knock. If you have an extra set of eyes you can correlate what you hear with someone watching knock on the laptop and free-revving in the driver's seat. Or you could fill up with a tank of race gas and see if your knock disappears in the logs.

If you determine it's phantom knock, make sure you check motor mounts, trans mounts, even worn out bushings in the suspension have been the culprit in my experience. If you have original lifters, I'd replace those with new revised ones once everything else has been checked.

 

[killab443]

Have you checked the condition of the knock sensor itself? Leaking any goo?

I mentioned this earlier and it went unseen. This was the culprit of high counts of knock in my own car. i believe if it looses that insulation it makes it more sensitive to outside noise. Mine was 130k old and all the insulation had dripped down the side of my block.

 

[sillylepricon37]

^^95-97 ECU requires 3E. 98 and up requires 26

What does that mean?

 

[delta448]

He was replying to me when he wrote that. I had questioned whether the ECU address he was logging for knock value was actually the correct address for his ECU.

Evoscan was set up for use with an Evo 8-9 ECU as it was developed, and those are the default settings when you install it. The default memory addresses for the different ECU variables is different than the addresses of those same variables in a pre 1998 DSM ECU. There may be some differences with 98-99 DSM and Evo 8-9 ECUs as well since they use different processor chips, but at least the knock address for them is the same.

I removed my post and put the right information in it's place, that's probably why it was confusing.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

So I found a leak when I did my BLT. I have already replaced my plugs and wires when I bought the car. The leak is directly behind/underneath the coil back on the intake manifold. I can hear the leak but I cant see it. Does this sound like a IM gasket?

 

[sillylepricon37]

dont mean to thread jack but i have a puzzling problem if you guys could check my thread also.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

So I found a leak when I did my BLT. I have already replaced my plugs and wires when I bought the car. The leak is directly behind/underneath the coil back on the intake manifold. I can hear the leak but I cant see it. Does this sound like a IM gasket?

That or a cracked IM or head. Def get that off of there. Hmmm, sounds like i was right.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

^^Haha I think so.. and hope so. Its just hard to decipher between the people on here that actually know there stuff and others who think they do. I will be taking it off and inspecting it on Thursday. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks again man.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Oh ok. I thought you were replying to the guy whose post is now gone. . I hope that you fix it. Let me know how it goes.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

I didn't mean you. I meant some other people on here. I was saying that you were actually right its just hard to decipher between people who actually know what they're talkin about.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

Well, I changed the IM gasket out today. The car runs great. Spool, low and high rpm power is much better. I haven't logged yet (gettin ready to) but I can already tell there is much more timing in it so I should have less knock or none.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Thats awesome.

 

[TSiTalonawd96]

Im getting so frustrated with this car. It runs awesome now, but now im getting 127 counts at 3500rpm and 40 at 6000rpm. Knock went up at lower rpms and down at higher rpms and im still only at like 84% injector duty cycle at 15psi. Im going to do another boost leak test but if that comes out good what could possibly be causing this?

Every now and then the car will load up really bad and sometimes the check engine light comes on. It throws a MAP or MAS code, but then its fine. Is it possible that one of these is out of wack and throwing everything off?