1000cc overkill?

[Cesarlcase]

I haven't updated my mods list as the work isn't done. I'm shooting for 400-450 horses. My new setup,will consist of: 2.3 litre motor with fully built internals,garrett t3/t4 .63 ar,272 272 cams,255 walbro HP, and full 3 inch exhaust. My problem is choosing the right Fpr and injectors. This car is going to be my dd and as crazy as it sounds, gas mileage still matters. Now one question is, will 1000cc injector be to big for my setup? I plan on getting the ecu reflashed by a dsm subie tuner guy, can the stock ecu handle that size injectors? Second question, as I know nothing of the fuel system, for the fpr, aeromotive is selling one with a -8 an and 10 an does it matter which one I get? Ultimately, will the injector size effect gas mileage? I know this is a counter productive question as increase in power will lower gas mileage, but just at.cruise. please give as much advice without any negative criticism,thanks.

 

[TRBOBLU]

Are you just planning on running gas or will you be running E85?

 

[phunny]

I'd go larger if you ever plan on upgrading

 

[92AWDHX40]

Link will adjust any injector go big room to grow.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I would only use that large or larger with an engine management system like ecmlink. There is no such thing as "too much injector" when using ecmlink. You will be able to get them dialed in and they won't effect your gas mileage. What effects your gas mileage is you right leg.

Here is an e-mail response I got from Tom Dorris, the owner of ECMTuning when I asked him a similar question in regards to a 14b:

FWIW, I've run FIC 2150s on my own 16G car for several months. They were the best idling and most well behaved injectors I've ever owned, but they were *clearly* over kill for my turbo. I only removed them because a good friend of mine need them. They will be going back on shortly.

The point being, that the streetability of the injector is a property of the injector itself. You don't need to worry about an injector being "too big" for your turbo.

Thomas Dorris
ECMTuning, Inc.

As far as your AFPR, just get the size which matches your current fuel lines. UNless you are upgrading your lines, which would be overkill for a 400-450hp goal, I would get a -6 AN AFPR. I would stick with a well known one like a Fuel Lab or Aeromotive (those are both -6 AN). Keep in mind that you will need fittings, lines, and a gauge to install it correctly so it's a good idea to get one with an install kit like the ones I linked from MAPerformance. Also, and this is my personal opinion, stainless braided lines suck! I will never use them again.

Hope this helps!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Ah good to know, fic shopping soon.

 

[turboglenn]

Yea, 1000's would be perfect for your setup. I was making 438WHP with 1000's on e85 at about 85% IDC. NOW that i'm pushing over that though i'm in need of something else like 1600/2150's. The 1000'a were great for DD use, i was getting up to 18mpg on the highway but on e85 in the city i was only seeing about 14mpg but i have a heavy foot. ON pump gas i was getting 22-24mpg highway (when not laying into the gas much)

I'm not sure what the stock ECU is capable of but i'm sure with all the programs for flashing them these days 1000's shouldn't be an issue at all.

They are rated on e85 to produce about 440hp at 80% IDC and up to about 540 at 100IDC (and much higher on gasoline fuels pump/race gasses)

I'm a believer in using only as much injector to get the job done to match your HP goals as to not waste much gas, and have better idle and tip in response. The 1000's i've been using are also FIC, and i can't say enough good things about them, great units. I just had them ultra sonic cleaned and pressure flushed through and they amazingly after 3 years of use still flowed within a few cc's of each other when i flow tested them.

I've heard tons of good things about the larger FIC's as well and wouldn't5 hesitate on buying anything they put out.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Also, and this is my personal opinion, stainless braided lines suck! I will never use them again.

Hope this helps!

Quoted for truth.

I will be removing all of mine and going to the nylon braided that STM sells.

 

[turboglenn]

What do you guys have against' the SS braieded stuff? The only real issue i've ever haed was learning how to cut it properly to install the fittings/ends. But there's a video on the earls site or one of the makers (maybe aeroquip) that shows the easiest way. Wrap the end you want to work on TIGHT in good masking tape (duct is too thick) Then get a masony chisel that's nice and sharp, lay the line on a piece of aluminum plate/block or whatever chuck of scrap soft metal you have. And then strike the chisel really hard with a small 3 lb sledgtehammer (hand held type, not the long axe style handle)

The cut is beautifully clean and fast, and leaves no particles in the line to contaminate the oil/fuel or whatever. Froim there just start your end going on, and as soon as the tips of all the edges of the braided wire are inside the tip of the fitting you canstart peeling your tape, then i usually hold the line and smack it with a piece of 2x4 to set it all the way in.

I use to fight for hours with these things until i found that video from a link posted on here, since then i have no fears of tackling any amount or size of fittings i need to put on SS braieded lines. The other thing i can recomend is just go with the push on style fitting snad hte blue rubber hose.

But remember the braided stuff is made for a reason, it's tough as nails, holds higher pressure and looks pimp. But two tyhings it will do you must watch out for is that it can short your battery if your fuel feed from filter to rail hits your positive post, and it will also wear a hole in your radiator if you have your water lines or turbo oil feed line touching it, i learned the second one the hard way

 

[T is for TURBO]

Couple of reasons:
1. No matter how careful I am, I always stab myself with one of the stainless braids
2. I don't like how exessivley stiff they are. Routing it is a PITA
3. It looks pimp.
4. Nylon is more than strong enough. I belive 350psi if I recall correctly.

 

[92AWDHX40]

My buddy showed me how to do my ss lines, hes good, i learned a lot of tricks from him. They look good.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

What do you guys have against' the SS braieded stuff?

It gets dirty over time and the dirt gets down in the braid. It can be painful to work with, and can as you mentioned can cause damage to nearby parts. And the braid can cover up damage and or leaks to the actual hose. I much prefer either black rubber hose or nylon braid, for the look and ease of installation.

• Stainless steel braided hose is generally rated at 1000 psi
• Nylon braided hose is generally rated at 350 psi
• Rubber hose is generally rated at 250 psi

Our fuel pressure with a base of 43 psi and lets say 35 psi of boost to be generous would be a max of 77 psi. So clearly any hose will work, it comes down to ease of installation, appearance, and personal preference.

 

[turboglenn]

yea, you have some valid points, but personally i still love my SS braided lines

 

[Boostinsideways]

I don't like SS Braided either.

1. PITA To route, too damn stiff.
2. Bling Blingy. I would rather have a mostly flat/mute/color matched engine bay with as little shiny metal as possible.
3. I allways poke/stab my self with stray ss wire, and that shit hurts like a mfer. Almost as bad as a paper cut.
4. Pushlock/Nylon Braided hoses much easier to work with.

 

[Cesarlcase]

I would only use that large or larger with an engine management system like ecmlink. There is no such thing as "too much injector" when using ecmlink. You will be able to get them dialed in and they won't effect your gas mileage. What effects your gas mileage is you right leg.

Here is an e-mail response I got from Tom Dorris, the owner of ECMTuning when I asked him a similar question in regards to a 14b:

FWIW, I've run FIC 2150s on my own 16G car for several months. They were the best idling and most well behaved injectors I've ever owned, but they were *clearly* over kill for my turbo. I only removed them because a good friend of mine need them. They will be going back on shortly.

The point being, that the streetability of the injector is a property of the injector itself. You don't need to worry about an injector being "too big" for your turbo.

Thomas Dorris
ECMTuning, Inc.




As far as your AFPR, just get the size which matches your current fuel lines. UNless you are upgrading your lines, which would be overkill for a 400-450hp goal, I would get a -6 AN AFPR. I would stick with a well known one like a Fuel Lab or Aeromotive (those are both -6 AN). Keep in mind that you will need fittings, lines, and a gauge to install it correctly so it's a good idea to get one with an install kit like the ones I linked from MAPerformance. Also, and this is my personal opinion, stainless braided lines suck! I will never use them again.

Hope this helps!

Thanks a million for the advice. parts are on the way hopefully will be posting dyno results soon.

 

[Kingcof22]

After reading this thread, i went with this exact setup with 1050 FICs!!! really excited. Thanks for the helpful info.

 

[Jon91TSi]

Fiberglass reinforced packing tape and a dremel with a reinforced cutoff disc if your friend when working with SS lines. My car took literally 20 minutes to cut and assemble after I had my measurements. I didn't cut or stab myself once.