10 second turbo opinions

[TSIfreek]

I will really be stepping up my car next season on the quest for my 10.80 goal I have set. My mods are in my profile but the car is fully supported.
I have a good friend in the DSM community that has sugested a turbo that would suite what Im looking for. We he came up with a full garret with a PTE mitsu houisng. The turbo is a 6176R with t4 wheels, ported S cover, BB center, PTE turbine housing with a .63 A/R. External gate threw the 02 housing
I would like to keep the shift point at 8- 8200 RPM to keep the motor happy.
This will also see some street driving but its time for an all out race car.
Im looking for good street manners meaning I dont want to have to rev the thing to 6 k to get any power out of it. Mid to top end is what im looking for but still fun to drive on the street.
Give me your oppinions im all ears.

 

[2gGSX]

If you're winding the car up to 8000 RPM then that turbo will meet your 10 second goals and spool under 6k. Other options to consider would be a standard 60-1 like the FP Red, or go all out and get the GT3582R which is essentially the turbo you listed above with the usual GT series improvements.

 

[JayRolla]

To make your goal easier I would go wtih a t3 or t4 flange manifold and a t67 or gt35r. The 35r will get you where you want and spools up fast for a large turbo. I think the t67 is a little slower on spooling but is rated at 700+whp.

 

[TSIfreek]

Thanks guys, Yea I know the deal on using a T3 manifold would be best but thats another 500 for a nice one and im not that ready to go that insane yet as I want to run a tial 38mm gate reserculated back on the 02 housing to a full 3" TB
The GT35R turbo is bigger than this turbo no? Im looking for something not quite at the 35R power due to it being a little more lagy?

 

[TimG]

You don't need a nice manifold. Get something reliable and useable (turbonetics, tredstone). I ran the tredstone all summer and other then having to port the runner, collector and gate ports, I'm happy. It cost me $300 shipped to my door and took me about 2 hours to port. Add a GT35R to this and you have your 10 second goal. When your goals are 10s, the Mitsu housings start getting restrictive and causing surge and exhaust escaping issues.

But if you are dead set on the mitsu exhaust housing, I'd suggest the FP3575. Yet this defeats the purpose of the bolton turbo as you have to buy their v-band O2 housing regardless. Most people are making serious power with that turbo and if you are dead stuck on the Mitsu housing, I'd say thats the one you want.

Oh and another thing, if you want 10s without nitrous, you will have turbo lag. If you don't like it, you won't go 10s.

 

[2gGSX]

The SC61 and GT3582R have the same compressor wheel. The "76" you are talking about (T4 P-trim) is bigger than the GT3582R's turbine wheel though, which may give you a little more lag.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

SC61 can get you there, GT35R can get you there. I would recommend a GT37R with a stroker! (PT67R)

Amazing response for its size and simply stupid amounts of power.

 

[TSIfreek]

You don't need a nice manifold. Get something reliable and useable (turbonetics, tredstone). I ran the tredstone all summer and other then having to port the runner, collector and gate ports, I'm happy. It cost me $300 shipped to my door and took me about 2 hours to port. Add a GT35R to this and you have your 10 second goal. When your goals are 10s, the Mitsu housings start getting restrictive and causing surge and exhaust escaping issues.

But if you are dead set on the mitsu exhaust housing, I'd suggest the FP3575. Yet this defeats the purpose of the bolton turbo as you have to buy their v-band O2 housing regardless. Most people are making serious power with that turbo and if you are dead stuck on the Mitsu housing, I'd say thats the one you want.

Oh and another thing, if you want 10s without nitrous, you will have turbo lag. If you don't like it, you won't go 10s.

The FP turbos are way over priced IMO. They are pretty though. Yea I am dead set on the mitsu housing as I will be able to keep my evo 3 manifold and I can buy a resuculated 02 houuisng for the Wg as with the t3 set up I am forced to run and open dump.
If I have to put a little spray on the car so be it 50 shot should be enough.

 

[TSIfreek]

Thanks for all the responses keep the good info coming

 

[compression]

if you had nlts and an antilag 2 step , to where you can just hold the throttle from the time the lights fall until you cross the finish lag should be no issue for you.

 

[TSIfreek]

if you had nlts and an antilag 2 step , to where you can just hold the throttle from the time the lights fall until you cross the finish lag should be no issue for you.

Yea I run link and a stage 3 shep trany so its all good.

 

[biglady112]

Well gentlemen, after discussing it with Kris for nearly thirty minutes the other day, I do think the 6176 or 6376 will suit him the best. We both agreed that the FP turbos, as they are nice, one could have the same performance for cheaper and just as reliable. I HIGHLY recommended that Kris go with a T3 turbine of some sort.

But, seeing as how he knocked down an 11.8 with the Evo III 16g on his third pass EVER in his life and has run consistent 11.8's since then, a bolt on would get the job done for a full one second off the ET.

Niether of us really liked/talked about the GT35 much. They are nice, but again, there are comparable turbos out there that can get hte job done. I think with one of the SC turbos with a 4" compressor cover will get the goals he wants. Going with the wastegate on the o2 housing is a good compromise giving Kris' current setup.

I gave him a direct comparison of going from the Evo III to a bigger turbo. Awder at the same boost level with the Evo III vs. Borg Warner S256 gained nearly a full second from 70-90mph with no changes but the turbo. Both turbos were tuned at the same boost level. 32psi. This was at over 6000ft above sea level, so those gains were tremendous. Given that Kris is near sea level in Illinois, I see no issues with him gaining a full second.

When I had my SCM6176RE it made full boost(39psi) by 4100rpm on a stock 90psi compression junk yard 6 bolt. It really really wanted to breath, but my horrible setup only allowed me to take her to 8000rpm. The only reason I even took it that high was to try and supress the wheel spin of a 2100lb 500whp car. That turbo is now on a extremely well set up 2G. The owner can't even keep from bouncing off the rev limiter now in first and second gear in his AWD. As I told Kris, what ever his turbo he ends up with, what ever the goal, don't sell his self short on the compressor housing and turbine wheel. That SCM6176 with the 3" E cover surges so bad from a roll it is rediculous. It has been on 5 different engines in three different cars with 4 different setups. The only thing that keeps the surge to a minimum is turning the boost up past 30psi. With the P trim turbine he leaves as much potential on the table as he can with minimal loss in spool chracteristics.

This turbo with the ball bearing center section is just nasty in the meat of the power curve. When we had it with just a journal bearing, it still spooled very close to the ball bearing, maybe 200-300rpm difference. But, the transition inbetween shifts was nasty. It has so much torque it is rediculous. It makes power so efficiently, it is hard to tell the difference between the torque and horsepower. That is how hard the thing pulls.

Can't wait till you can hit that ten Kris. Good luck and I am here for anything you need along the way man.

Steven

 

[TSIfreek]

Thanks for the reply Steve. Holy WTF 39 psi of boost dam thats just about got to pull you out of the seat!!
I agree with everyone there are other turbos that will get me to my goal. Main thing I talked to steve about is I didnt want to do this twice and I think there will be alot of room to grow with the 6176R.
I drove the piss out of the B16g this last year it was fun but as we all know its never fast enough.

 

[2gGSX]

Do you have any logs with MAP sensor data to support those spoolup claims? They seem far lower than I would expect, especially given that full boost for you was 39 psi.

 

[biglady112]

AEM 5 bar. Awder on the board here can vouch for the car. Just because you don't know anyone who hasn't done it, doesn't mean it hasn't been done multiple times now. Heck look at Mike Rizzoti. He made 585WHP on a stock 6 bolt short block. And was knocking down mid 10's like that. Does a 14.3@136 sound like less than 39psi to you?

Steven

Steven

 

[biglady112]

Also, I am sure wheelspin was helping that little bugger get moving faster. However, that turbo is currently on a AWD 2G. And he is seeing a full 24psi by 4500-4600rpm. So not a drastic difference. And he is on a healthy, decently setup engine. Both cars were tuned by me, and both cars were very similar in the tune. As in spool up tune and shape of timing curves.

Steven

 

[2gGSX]

AEM 5 bar. Awder on the board here can vouch for the car. Just because you don't know anyone who hasn't done it, doesn't mean it hasn't been done multiple times now. Heck look at Mike Rizzoti. He made 585WHP on a stock 6 bolt short block. And was knocking down mid 10's like that. Does a 14.3@136 sound like less than 39psi to you?

Steven

Steven

I wasn't insinuating that you were making things up, I just wanted to see for myself on a log. Would you mind PMing it to me or posting it up? If you have a link to a log already on the DSMLink forums, you could post that too.

I DEFINITELY wasn't saying that you never made 39 psi?

People ask about spool characteristics on the 61mm turbos all the time and I just wanted some definitive answers for once since no one with one ever seems to post logs containing MAP sensor data.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Look into the Borg Warners. The S362 should do what you're looking for. I'm running the S258, just made 457whp on pump with a stock intake manifold/head/bottom end and FP2s.

 

[biglady112]

I did mention those to him Steve. I think the 256 will leave him wanting more. The 362 sounds good for his goals. Can you tell us what the options are for a mitsubishi footprint?

Also, I do not have any logs. My computer is to retarded to be able to upload to another computer or the internet. So there are no logs out there or on the dsmlink forums. Actually, I have never posted a log period from any car. I kinda don't know how. Every car is different and so is every tune. We just have great luck here in colorado and are able to get the job done most of the time. I am going to start to see if I can get a video of the dyno runs up. Gives a better idea. That car should still be in my profile. Mirage not GST. Just use GST for the dyno rankings on the site here as it won't allow non dsm cars.

Steven

 

[missouri_dsm]

Another option if you are set on the mitsubishi manifold.http://www.amsperformance.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21_39&products_id=1190

 

[vaboys2ndgen]

t3 turbonetics manifold i know someone from the dsmlink forums that has them for $250 i picked one up myself for my t3 gt35r .82 a/r turbo

PM and i'll dig up his email for you

 

[TSIfreek]

Hmmmm.. What are you guys using for an 02 housing with the t3 turbine housing??
The turbonetics manifolds have the WG of the #1 runner and that is not the best source for the WG. It should have its own pipe coming off the center of the manifold at the collector or at the 02 housing WG port.
I dont mind running the adapter plate but I would like to keep the WG routed back into the exhaust some how and looks like it will have to be custom made.
I have a BR 3'' DP I dont plan on hacking up also.
Its all about how crazy I want to get with it I guess.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Look into the Borg Warners. The S362 should do what you're looking for. I'm running the S258, just made 457whp on pump with a stock intake manifold/head/bottom end and FP2s.

Yea, but didn't you make that on the t3 housing?

 

[2gGSX]

Yea, but didn't you make that on the t3 housing?

The 3XX series turbos are only available in T3, T4, or T6 housings.

TSIfreek--you're right in that getting the dump tube rerouted will be a custom job, but your local shop or even an exhaust shop should be able to do it. When you do, make sure you try to get it rerouted in such that it won't interfere with the normal exhaust flow.

 

[TurboAnything]

I second the Borg-warner turbos i have a S256 and love it i see full boost 26psi by 3400rpm. My turbo would be a tad small for 10.80s but the S258 would be perfect. You dont need 600whp to runs 10s people 450-500hp will do it just fine. Plus you would have better street manners since you can build boost without having to use high RPMs.