Yeah, i just bought this car, drove it home, and read what happened.. i need help ###

[sepulchral]

Bought a 1995 Eclipse GS-T
- Evolution III Motor w/ T25 Turbo @ 14 PSI
- FMIC, Exhaust, Manual Boost Controller

the for sale link: http://www.dragva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120564&highlight=1995+evo


I got it from a guy in Dulles, VA drove it back to my hometown in ripley, West virginia. The car had a sputtering problem at first, so i checked the plugs, put them back in and the car burns white smoke like crazy.

I check the oil and there are little bits of non-magnetic metal (brass?) in the oil, and the oil is chocolate milky.

I proceeded to remove the oil pan and beforehand, drained the oil, and the oil looks like a golden chocolate milk color, with microscopic specs of brass floating around.

The guy i bought it from said the engine was just rebuilt, but i signed a paper saying as-is condition, and its been two weeks since i purchased the car.

SO what i need to know is what the brass shavings could have come from, and is the antifreeze in the oil im guessing from a blown headgasket or a cracked sleeve?

I'm NOT experienced with dsm's at all, so please help me with as much info as possible, because frankly, im in the dark.


I'm guessing the shavings are from rod bearings, but what could have caused that?


Here is a list of things i'm thinking i have to replace:

Headgasket
Oil pump
Water Pump
Rod Bearings

Get crank balanced


Where do i get parts for the evo III motor at an affordable price and are there any FAQS out there for replacing this kind of stuff, also i need torque specs for just about everyting, especially for headgasket. Please specify whether specs are in ft-lbs torque or lbs per square inch.

Thank you..

Michael

 

[sepulchral]

ALso, i'd like to add, wheni took out the spark plug from the cylinder closest to the timing belt smoke poured outta the cylinder, the same color and smell as the smoke from the exhaust.

Are all evo parts the same? And for this motor do i need to get head replacement studs?

 

[Strm Trpr]

That really sucks you bought a car from some clown that burned you.

You definitely have a blown head gasket.
#1 cylinder is where the breach is.
As for the brass, you've got bearing issues.
If that motor still has it's balance shafts in it, then hopefully the brass is from those bearings, but chances are, they are either rod or main bearings.

BTW, torque is always lbs*ft, or metric Newton*Meters, never in psi....

 

[laserspeeddemon]

No, not all Evo engines are the same. You would have to use a DSM motor. You could use a DSM, GVR4, or EVO I - EVO III motor.

Sounds like you spun a bearing from the discription, white smoking means you have water in the cyclinders, possible a new HG would resolve that, but it could be from other things, like an over tightened oil filter. I would start with that.

On another note, if he sold this car knowing that it had serious mechanical failure, then that paper would not hold up in court (depending on the judge). Since you signed the paper based on a blatant lie, There are other varibles that can turn favor, like if he knew it was having problems, if you knew, etc. PM me if you would like to discuss it further.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

BTW, torque is always lbs*ft, or metric Newton*Meters, never in psi....

lbs-ft is foot-pounds.
lbs-in is inch-pounds.

 

[Vallary99]

I agree with Strm Trpr.

Your oil pump is mechanical so you shouldn't need to change that unless the pump has run dry. You have to pull the whole motor out to change it practically.

 

[Strm Trpr]

not true, torque can be in lbs which is what he was refering.

lbs-ft is pronounced pounds per square foot, or foot-pounds.
lbs-in is pronounced pounds per square inch, or inch-pounds.

I hate to say it, but you are wrong....

T=Force * Distance....

Force is load in Lbs.... or newtons, or whatever...

Distance is feet, inches, mm, meters and so on....

How can lbs be squared if there is no lbs * lbs in the T = F * D?

 

[Strm Trpr]

lbs-ft is pronounced pounds per square foot, or foot-pounds.

So, based off of this statement your answer for torque would be:

lbs-ft is pronounced pounds per square foot, or foot-pounds....

lbs/ft^2, that's not torque, that's a load distributed over a ft^2 area...

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I hate to say it, but you are wrong....

T=Force * Distance....

Force is load in Lbs.... or newtons, or whatever...

Distance is feet, inches, mm, meters and so on....

How can lbs be squared if there is no lbs * lbs in the T = F * D?

Yes, you are correct, I was confused. I will edit my statement to reflect as such.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Cool deal...
I hope I didn't come off sounding like a penis.
I just wanted to get that straight for the other people....

 

[clipse0001]

I doubt this motor is off an EVO. How did he prove it. It bothers me that he has a T-25 on an EVO motor he "just swapped" .... "6500" miles ago. Sounds like bull to me.
I live near dulles when im home from school. I say we have a DSMTuners meet where he lives.

-Anton-

 

[sepulchral]

torque = force * distance * sine of theangle between
or force cross distance using determinants




i have more questions, please answer!

What kind of bearings would i need?
do i have to take the transmission off to take out the crank shaft?
Do i even have to take the crankshaft off to remove the rod bearings?
would the piston rings be fine (cant i just examine visibly when head is off the motor?)

Do i have to mill the head to a flat surface and do i need new arp headbolts?


OH yes the guy who sold me the car gave me this story:

The shop who installed the motor put on a new timing belt which slipped causing the head to mess up and bend valves, so they had to rebuild it.

Could my HG failure be due to the fact that i have a GS-T Head on a Evo Motor?

i found cometic HG's http://www.tunerschoice.com/xq/aspx/paging.yes/dept_id.193/display_id.95/qx/Product.htm

which one of the heavy duty ones do i need? i mean what millimeter

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Cool deal...
I hope I didn't come off sounding like a penis.
I just wanted to get that straight for the other people....

Nah, one of my biggest DSMTuners pet peeves is the spread of misinformation. The difference between when I do it and Joe-schamoe does it. I take responisbility, suck up my pride, and admit I was wrong.

torque = force * distance * sine of theangle between
or force cross distance using determinants




i have more questions, please answer!

What kind of bearings would i need?
do i have to take the transmission off to take out the crank shaft?
Do i even have to take the crankshaft off to remove the rod bearings?
would the piston rings be fine (cant i just examine visibly when head is off the motor?)

Do i have to mill the head to a flat surface and do i need new arp headbolts?


OH yes the guy who sold me the car gave me this story:

The shop who installed the motor put on a new timing belt which slipped causing the head to mess up and bend valves, so they had to rebuild it.

Could my HG failure be due to the fact that i have a GS-T Head on a Evo Motor?

i found cometic HG's http://www.tunerschoice.com/xq/aspx/...qx/Product.htm

which one of the heavy duty ones do i need? i mean what millimeter

it depends on which bearings they are. You see. I SERIOUSLY doubt he got an EVO motor. Becuase the EVO motor would not be able to bolt on the T25 the same as it would a 2g motor because the oil supply lines are VERY different from a T-25 on a 2g compared to EVO III 16g on a EVO III motor. It would actually take quite a bit of work.

The odds are, he has a 2g motor, the shavings are from the Main Bearings, which are starting to eat up, eventually the motor will crankwalk and you will need to buy a new motor. I would take the car to a reputable DSM shop and have them make a written assement of the damage/work. And then take him to court.

This guy probably relized he was crank-walking and sold the car so he could get another car and dump the problems onto someone else.

Then with the left over money you can buy the AWD Talon that I am selling for my friend. It's $4000 and has LOTS of mods.

 

[92awddsm]

The brass shavings you see is from the turbo bearings. The t-25 has shit its pants and needs replacement. Most or all of the smoke you see is probably from the turbo blowing oil. Was the oil or water low before you drained it? Did you check the turbo for shaft play?

If it is the turbo, all the brass you see in the oil has circulated through the engine and surely done some damage to the bearings and possibly the crank also.

Yes, the tranny and flywheel have to come off before you can get the crank out.

If you are going this far, you might as well pull the block out, hone it, deck it, install arp studs(roughly same price as the replacement torque to yeild bolts needed), and new rings. Also have the rods checked and reconditioned if needed.

If both the block and head have been machined and arp headstuds installed, there will never be any worries of cometic failer.

You need to at least check the head for flatness. If it is the least bit warped, you need to have it machined also.

And lastly, update your profile. I saw you were from midlo and I was ready to come over and help.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

That car came through our shop a couple of months ago. I'll share what i do know.....

the car was purchased with a busted 7-bolt. The owner was sold a 6-bolt that he was told was a 7-bolt, against my advice i might add. Anyway, the shop that was doing the work had a hard time with the swap because of the changes that have to be made for the 6-bolt in place of the 7-bolt. specially the 95-96. Anyway, they wired the CAS and made the changes that needed to be made.

When the car was first brought to us it was done by the other shop and would no longer start. Turns out a couple of the valves met a piston due to the tensioner not being set properly causing timing to jump like crazy. Once we diagnosed the problem the originial shop took responsibility and replaced the head. I did go down to the other shop and checked the pistons and they looked fine, well they didn't have any serious score marks.

From what i heard after that the car ran great. I know the owner liked it and never told me of any issues that he may have had after that. I will say that the previous owner is a good guy and shouldn't be seen as a scam artist.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune bro.

 

[sepulchral]

So its a 6-bolt motor, not an evo motor? is there any way to findout if it has an evo motor?

Does the crank really need to be taken out?? if so this friggen sucks.. i was hoping all i had to do was replace HG and possibly rod bearings and head studs...


92AWDDSM: how do you suppose there is coolant in the oil, i mean the car has a blown HG i think.. but i doubt the turbo would cause that... is something in the turbo made of brass that could powder up so finely??

prostreetdsmx1: jason is the shit, hes a nice guy and very honest.. i just really want to know what i have to do to get it in good running condition.. its still kinda ####ed up all this happened on the drive home from buying it... you have to admit.... also the car had about 1 quart of antifreeze in it...

would the brass be from the rod bearings or main bearings, and if they are goin shitty would i really have to get the crank freshened up??????

 

[sepulchral]

i really dont want ot pull this damn engine... anyone have a pictorial faq of how to remove the transmission on this car or an awd dsm?

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

the whole "EVO Motor" is the fault of the engine supplier. First they tried saying it was a 7-bolt. I even called them questions about the motor on the owners behalf and when they couldn't answer my questions i knew that the motor was not a 7-bolt. I believed after he brought it up with them they said it was an EVO motor to make him feel better about it. I am not 100% sure of it though.

the motor is a Galant motor. I think, it was a bit ago now i don't remember exactly.

And i agree dude, it sucks ass that this happened. Even more because it was on your way home with it.

 

[sepulchral]

welll.. do you have any answers to any of my problems then ?

 

[92awddsm]

So its a 6-bolt motor, not an evo motor? is there any way to findout if it has an evo motor?

Does the crank really need to be taken out?? if so this friggen sucks.. i was hoping all i had to do was replace HG and possibly rod bearings and head studs...


92AWDDSM: how do you suppose there is coolant in the oil, i mean the car has a blown HG i think.. but i doubt the turbo would cause that... is something in the turbo made of brass that could powder up so finely??



would the brass be from the rod bearings or main bearings, and if they are goin shitty would i really have to get the crank freshened up??????

Yes, the crank should be pulled, miced, polished or replaced if damaged.

I didnt say the hg wasnt blown. Thats why I asked if you checked the oil and coolant levels before you drained them. A blown hg will cause coolant to get into the oil.

The rod bearings are made of babbot, steel, copper, and some are aluminum. The journal type bearings in your turbo are brass. The only onther part in your engine made of brass is the nozzels on the oil squirters.

 

[sepulchral]

hey man whats your number, i have a midlothian area code 804-437-1245 could i talk about it w/ u man?

also i remember seeing your car on midlothian tnpk last summer, it was fast.. i was in my old sr20det 240 trailing behind you

 

[92awddsm]

hey man whats your number, i have a midlothian area code 804-437-1245 could i talk about it w/ u man?

also i remember seeing your car on midlothian tnpk last summer, it was fast.. i was in my old sr20det 240 trailing behind you

PM sent

 

[sepulchral]

what are the chances these shavings could b from a turbo?

 

[ryno]

That sucks man, I'm sorry you got f***ed like that, but no I dont think the shavings are from the turbo.

 

[BOBS90TURBO]

There IS a small chance the Brass shaving could be from the turbo and white smoke, just pull the intake off the turbo and feel the compressor wheel, if it moves from side to side then you know.
Also, you could just buy a used 30-50 thousand mile JDM engine from Japan. Some even come with a B16g etc...