With this set up can I run 400hp reliably on a fwd?

[hahnsuper16g]

Hello I have a 1995 talon tsi fwd and I was wondering with these mods that I am getting can I safely put down 400whp as a dailydriver. I'm getting a jdm 6bolt swap, ngk plug and wire set , forged pistons and ring kit with a 8:5:1 ratio, I'm staying with the stock 6 bolt rods and bearings, EVO3 16G turbo ported, ported 02 housing, block bored 20 over, greddy fmic, greddy upper ic kit, hks 272/264 combo cams, act 2600clutch, act lightened flywheel, and for tires I chose falkens, also I am upgrading fuel to 4 650cc injectors, a walbro 255hp pump and safc2. I currently have a custom 3inch turbo back exhaust with no cat and I am using the greddy e-01 boost controller. I would like input and if I am missing anything. My goal is 400whp and a street/ track car for a daily driver.

 

[SiNiST3R]

Awwwwe...how cute...the "Whatever Eyes"

Well coming from someone who defnitely has has 400hp and...wait...wait, no I guess coming from someone with : "K&N Filter. Apexi TT. I also have these but havent installed yet: Dejon MBC, Cobalt Boost Gauge, 190 Walbro FP, Catless RnR turboback." You should probably just keep your mouth closed...

Word

 

[ericbev]

Lets try and stay on topic here. You guys should be mature enough to ingore the guy above. If you are not posting technical information to help this guy out, dont bother posting.

I wasnt trying to discourage you from the 16G. It produces really street friendly power and satisfies most of the people who buy it. It is also very versatile. It can put down numbers on the strip as well as kick ass in auto-x because of its spool characteristics. For the price, its hard to argue its cost effectiveness. I was simply trying to explain the pros and cons to educate you enough to make the decision that is right for you.

I am going to eventually upgrade the turbo but i want to learn to drive on the 16g before upping it.

With the number of 16Gs out there and the amount of people that have tuned with it, its a great turbo to get started in the tuning world with. Also, if you buy quite a few supporting mods for it and use it to its potential, you will really be ready for a bigger turbo down the road with no restrictions in the way. By this time, you should also have a good handle on how to tune, which will carry you a long way.

The LSD insert VS Quaife/or variant can be argued both ways. It depends on two main factors. How much are you willing to spend, and what are you going to use your car for.

Some of the inserts have seen very high numbers without failure and do as they are advertised. I am not too sure about the long term longevity of these units. Miles and abuse can take its toll on anything. Some might call them a bandaid, but they do work. They cut down the torque steer and really help the 60ft times. They are also alot less expensive then their counterparts.

A whole diff such as the quaife, is alot more expensive and has these same attributes, but also does much better on road courses and auto-x. People that spend the extra money on them and stand by them 100%. Both types of LSDs will react similarly in the straight line and through the turns off power. Its the under power turns that are different.

I hope that helps.

Are you still lost on what to do engine wise?

 

[Thomas91169]

Hello I have a 1995 talon tsi fwd and I was wondering with these mods that I am getting can I safely put down 400whp as a dailydriver. I'm getting a jdm 6bolt swap, ngk plug and wire set , forged pistons and ring kit with a 8:5:1 ratio, I'm staying with the stock 6 bolt rods and bearings, EVO3 16G turbo ported, ported 02 housing, block bored 20 over, greddy fmic, greddy upper ic kit, hks 272/264 combo cams, act 2600clutch, act lightened flywheel, and for tires I chose falkens, also I am upgrading fuel to 4 650cc injectors, a walbro 255hp pump and safc2. I currently have a custom 3inch turbo back exhaust with no cat and I am using the greddy e-01 boost controller. I would like input and if I am missing anything. My goal is 400whp and a street/ track car for a daily driver.

k im gonna tackle this.

while a 6bolt swap is a good endavour, i would only do it once the 7bolt walks(if it does). if it aint broke, dont fix it. a waste of money and headache IMO. i made good power with the 7bolt and never any issues. same with other 7bolters around me, all on equal setups with no issues.

the evo16g ported is a great turbo. i used that in conjunction with a SBR cast manifold and even with a large fmic, spooled 20psi by 3400rpm.

cams sound good, while youre there if anything, id take the head off, stick in some ARP studs and a cometic, hks, or mitsu multi layer head gasket. then you could safely run up to 25-28psi without worrying about lifting the head(given you can tune at those numbers)

as for your fuel system and tuning ditch the safc/logger combo, and go straight to DSMlink. itll be the best thing you ever did for the car in terms of accurate tuning. i too used the safc/logger combo, and went to dsmlink on the same setup, and saw awesome gains. the 650's are nice, but with dsmlink, you can run larger injectors like theyre stock, so why limit your headroom to the 650's, id do at least 850's or bigger, since dialing them in requires a simple equation and some fiddling with dead times, all of which takes 5 minutes. with the 255lph pump, you WILL need a fuel pressure regulator, best/most used is the Aeromotive unit.

youre gonna need a fmic as well. pick yourself up a 24x12x3(or bigger) core off ebay, and make your own piping(perfect if you/a neighbor can weld). thisll save you hundreds and do the same thing as 1000$+ kits.


ill put it to you this way. check out my profile. when i got dsmlink, i started out around the 32-34lbs/min range. the given is you take lbs/min and multiply by 10, and you get a crank hp estimate, give or take 20hp. after a week of tuning, i saw 42-44lbs/min. with cams you could see even more. of course, that was at 20psi. theres a guy i believe making almost 48lbs/min running 26psi with methanol injection(supresses knock, allows more timing advance and leaner fuel curves, more power)

 

[hahnsuper16g]

I am getting the headstuds and a cometic gasket. For now Im going to stick with the afc 2 setup and th 650cc injectors. my budget won't allow for a dsm link with all the other mods so i will get that last.

 

[BGGSTin]

As stated previously the only thing that it looks like you'd really need to obtain your goal is a FPR to go along with that 255 pump of yours.

DSM link would make it a dream to tune but you can definitely get by with the SAFC until you'd want to upgrade for whatever reason...more options and/or you still want more power.

As for the torque steer, I don't have an LSD and the 'steer isn't too bad. It's only at certain times that I can notice it, while anyother time I never notice it. For the fact of straight line performance though, I will be picking up a Quaife sometime shortly.

The Evo 3 is a good choice and you'll definitely be able to pull out 400 with it tuned correctly being bored over. I must say though after having this turbo for a few months, I think I want something bigger. Both to test the fwd lag compensation and I also just want it to rip me in the seat a little bit more. You're 650's will be enough compensation though, to where if you'd want to do this same thing in a few months you can purchase the turbo only as you have most of the other supporting mods. I would suggest that if you didn't choose the Evo 3 or you upgrade later that you get DSMlink before you'd go bigger.

 

[kevstyle]

My boy has a 1g laser fwd.. 50trim setup with all supporting mods.. pushing like 480fwhp pretty sick too bad he blew the head gasket

 

[97gstnick]

i have 396fwhp and 401fwt and its a blast. tourqe steer like crazy but get teh sbr lsd insert and problem solved. thats all i did. have fun and hopefully you hit 400 whp on the e316g i have the same turbo but the "gt" and i had the turbo you have. the difference between the two imo is nite and day. the gt takes mad abuse from me and my low boost is 18psi and my high boost is 24psi. i also have built 6 bolt block so enjoy i know that i am.

hmmm, why dont i believe you? your mod list sure is fishy

 

[hotboykemarm]

you'll need a real good tune to make 400hp and your turbo is gonna be maxed out.

 

[BGGSTin]

you'll need a real good tune to make 400hp and your turbo is gonna be maxed out.

Exactly, a good tune is definitely whats going to make the difference. Make sure you factor about $250 or so for dyno tuning if you want to get the best possible numbers out of it.

 

[hahnsuper16g]

Well if i can get close to 400 im cool 350whp sure sounds like more than enough fun for me. Especially with it being a fwd car and all. Does anyone know a great site to go to and download videos of dsms tuned etc? I have tons of car vids but not a whole lot of dsms except the ones with the pro stocks like sean glazer etc. I want to get some nice vids of dsms on the street if i could

 

[97gstnick]

Well if i can get close to 400 im cool 350whp sure sounds like more than enough fun for me. Especially with it being a fwd car and all. Does anyone know a great site to go to and download videos of dsms tuned etc? I have tons of car vids but not a whole lot of dsms except the ones with the pro stocks like sean glazer etc. I want to get some nice vids of dsms on the street if i could

have you tried www.tremek.com ???

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm sorry but these comments below are not true. So to clear that up for future readers...

i dont know if i would run those big cams on a stock head...you might also want to change the turbo like someone stated and also built a few other things before you slap race stuff in it...

272s are great for an unported, unshrouded head with stock size valves and stock springs. They do better than 264s over all. They just move your power band. They'ld be an asset to your evo3 16g or bigger turbo. And when/if you upgrade your valves and unshroud them(maybe), port using a flowbench, upgrade your springs for a higher revlimit, you'll gain more than with a less "aggresive" cam combo.

btw...those 272 cams will kill any gasmileage you will have

You'll get better gas milage if you DO NOT change your driving habits (it will be hard not to with the agresive cams). I got 33 mpg with my FP2Xs; more "aggresive" than the 272s.

 

[98eclipseRS]

Ericbev seriously great posts and I would give you more reps but it says I need to spread them around before I give you more .

Anyway onto the topic at hand. There is seriously so much bs and misinformation going around this thread that I need a shovel to get through it all. Where to start where to start. Hahnsuper16g I have tons of info so bare with me through it all, you should also listen to what ericbev has to say as he really knows his shit.

For starters seriously scrap the whole JDM thing, I know you like JDM this and that and all that jazz but its the same block as the usdm one. The only thing the cyclone motor(jdm motor) has that the usdm one doesn't is the dual runner intake manifold which you won't want to use and is almost impossible to work correctly. Hell just get a usdm one and tell people its a JDM one because its the same thing and no one will ever know the difference. Second I think you are going about your whole mod path completely wrong. You don't ahve to take my advice for gospel but I have been around the block so I have a good idea what a good path to go with is.

Scrap all this super speed stuff first. In a fwd the two most important mods are suspension and an LSD. They are expensive mods but a deffinate must for a fwd car. For suspension you can go with your basic koni/tokico adjustables and some ground control springs. People have had great results with this setup and it works great for daily/drag racing whatever else you want to do. If you do plan on making huge power how you want to you will need a REAL LSD none of this cheap insert bullshit. Trust me mod right mod once, mod wrong mod twice. An insert will be a great temporary fix but they are know to put enormous amounts of stress on teh stock diff and will eventually bust your tranny so honestly stay away.

With that out of the way let's get one to power mods. YOu really really really need to realize how hard it is and how much time and money it takes to get a car to make 400hp. Look at my mod list and I just made 402whp on pump gas on my car. Its a really really really long road to get there and it takes time and effort. I think you need to focus on making 250whp before you try and make 400whp or even 300whp.

As for mods if you are going to go with a 6bolt swap there are seveeral very important things to factor in. First thing is that with a 6botl swap you will get a random missfire code with the stock ecu, as you could imagine this is a very bad thing and if you don't knwo what it is do some research now rather than later. DSMlink can fix this problem easily and I recomend you go this route rather than just an safc. The problem with the safc is that when you take out some of the air that the ecu sees you advance timmming like crazy and that usually leads to large amounts of knock with high boost on a fwd.

Next is if you are going to tear your motor apart and put in forged pistons just throw up the couple hundred extra and buy a nice set of rods the motor will last a lot longer and you won't have to worry about getting a back batch of gas and getting rediculous knock which could lead to castostrophic engine damage. Next 272's straight across won't make tunning harder and will be great for fwd and top end runs. You don't need a ported head( I don't and am doing just fine) or a ported intake mani or tb or any of that.

For supporting mods you will NEED larger than 650cc injectors to make 350 or 400whp this is not debatable if you want to do it on pump gas. If you are going to buy a 255lph pump you MUST HAVE an afpr. Don't install the fuel pump before you install the afpr. YOu will run rich, you won't be able to tune your car properly, and your car will run like shit. Skip the greddy FMIC and just buy one of the Vendor fmic kits with short route piping they cost teh same amount of money and works tons better.

Now as for the turbo you will want something bigger than a 16g. I know you can make 350whp or 400whp whatever on a e316g but that not likely for the average tuner. Also if you are already thinking of going with a bigger turbo down the road why not just save yourself the money and buy it now instead?? I have gone through four different turbos now on my super 50 trim and I am going to go larger still, I really should have just went with a gt30r from teh begining and been done with it.


Although I know you won't listen to a word I just posted I thought I would try and help you out so have fun tunning and remember you can always come back here and ask questions.

-zach-

 

[girlieracr4g63]

Jeeeeez....
I have to agree there is alot of info here to make anyone crazy and confused. So really all I want to say is decide on what you want performance, and reliabilty wise and research, research, research. Fwd and awd owners will always argue whats better. Just as the the big turbo owners will argue with the smaller turbo owners. Sounds like to me you know what you are looking for. So dont get your head all full of this person said this, and that person said that. Read what people are saying, and again research. I own both awd and fwd and I have to say my fwd has been the biggest challenge. However my fav. of the two and the MOST fun. Having an impressive Fwd basicly comes down to suspension, tuning, tires and DRIVING. In others words. Everyone is going to have their opinions. So read the opinions and make your choice's. However finding the basics of making the best of a fwd is key. Hope I didnt confuse you anymore than everyone else did heh. Good luck and spend wisely.


Wendy

 

[hahnsuper16g]

Well zach i didn't disregard your info. Here is a link to the shop that's doing it www.adrenalinexxx.com. As you can see they deal only in jdm blocks and i would prefer the jdm longblock anyway ( i'm a big jdm fan). As far as suspension i decided to go with teins basic coilover set up and front a rear strut tower bars. The whole basic setup will cost me about $750.00 brand new. My 7 bolt is history so i have to do a new engine and i figured that since the engine is out i am going to get as much done to it as possible so that's why i went with the power upgrades first. My total bill comes to about 8k so i hope that that's enough to get me close to 400whp. I keep saying it but i guess no one hears me so i will say it again. I don't have to hit 400whp on the nose but i would like to be as close to it as i can get. My dyno with the following mods on a basic 7bolt was like 196 whp and 204lbs of tourque. The mods that i had done to the car were this. A custom 3inch turbo back exaust with no cat, greddy type rs bov, injen short ram cold air intake, safc 2 and the greddy e-01 boost controller. The same shop tuned my car and i must give them props and mention that the co owner is a hot chick and owns a fully tuned skyline r34. I am still learning but I am not understanding why it would be hard for me to make around 350-360 whp with the mods I am getting. I am not looking for a 11 sec drag strip terror. I want the car mainly for highway runs and if i can run 12s at the drag strip i am super happy. I guess what i am saying is everyone is yelling 20g this to me and all this stuff is starting to confuse me.

 

[girlieracr4g63]

For 8 grand you could do ALOT. Sounds like to me you are being taken by a cute girl ,and a shop thats specialty is Hondas, and Nissans. Not knocking their work just their sales tatics. There are plenty of worthy Co's out there that you could get the parts you want at a much cheaper price. 12s are possible with the ideas you have however its how you apply the funds that you have. Also there is nothing wrong with a small turbo. Hell I got 12.1's in my fwd (slicks of course and 11.8s in my awd on DRs using a Big16. Again goodluck, and if you would like to hit me up on AIM or AOL I can show you a few vids of the ol' fwd.


Wendy

 

[hahnsuper16g]

For 8 grand you could do ALOT. Sounds like to me you are being taken by a cute girl ,and a shop thats specialty is Hondas, and Nissans. Not knocking their work just their sales tatics. There are plenty of worthy Co's out there that you could get the parts you want at a much cheaper price. 12s are possible with the ideas you have however its how you apply the funds that you have. Also there is nothing wrong with a small turbo. Hell I got 12.1's in my fwd (slicks of course and 11.8s in my awd on DRs using a Big16. Again goodluck, and if you would like to hit me up on AIM or AOL I can show you a few vids of the ol' fwd.


Wendy

Well it's one of the few shops here the other one is not a good shop at all. They do more than hondas they do it all. I am not a great mechanic yet so i have to pay the cost to be the boss for now . After I graduate UTI that will be a different story. I want it done right the first time and they matched the prices of slowboy and extremepsi.com. So i got the parts for the same price i am paying for labor which i would rather do than try the old do it yourself routine and then pay double to fix it when it breaks because it was not installed and tuned properly. I would like to see your fwd in action. I don't have AIM OR AOL but i do use yahoo. My yahoo name is israelishome2002 or you can email me videos there at [email protected]

 

[ericbev]

Ericbev seriously great posts and I would give you more reps but it says I need to spread them around before I give you more .

I have been on a forum rampage as of latley and I am glad someone is recognizing my hard efforts. I try to spread my knowledge as much as possible.

For 8 thousand dollars you could do alot more than what you realize. That is alot of money to be handing over to a random shop. Pick up a 6-bolt eagle/wiseco shortblock combo, slap back on your 2G head (if it checks out) and break it in with your stock turbo. While you get your car back on the road again, get on here and read read read. Alot of the questions you have asked would be totally unnescescary if you had spent as much time on here (and other sites) reading like I do. I hope you will ditch this JDM thing and listen to what me and zach had to say.

Glad I could be of help.

 

[hahnsuper16g]

Why don't you hear me when i say there is a shortage of shops here and i can't do it cause i am a not a licensed mechanic. I mean you say that i can get this and that done for what i am paying etc. Here is my question will you do it for me? It's not that i don't listen where i am there is not many shops and the shop that i have doing it backs their work as well. I mean I don't mean to sound like im griping or nothing but I spend most of my day at work here on the forums reading and researching. I am not an expert like most of you guys so i have to take what i can get. My car is already at the shop and the parts are already going in. For what i got I think its decent. I mean if i had machine shop tools and i knew how to take apart an engine etc then i would save more money but right now i need the car done. That shop is one of 2 here in St louis and the other one i don't deal with because of their work and what you are paying for. The shop that's doing it has been featured in many magazines and whatever i find on the net they match the price. So i am only paying for labor. I mean you are saying that i should drop the whole jdm thing but i don't understand why if that is what i like. Also the shop only deals in jdm blocks and the one i am getting has very low miles on it as well. I am learning but i really feel like i am being bashed when i am only getting what i can for what i have where i live.

 

[ericbev]

I was talking down to you at all. I was just trying to make sure you dont regret your decision down the road. I know people that drive very very far to get their car done at the shop of their choice. If things are in motion, Ill just say good luck, and I hope it turns out well for you. Be sure to post some progress, pics, etc later for all of us to see.

I didnt mean to come off like I may have. My bad.

 

[98eclipseRS]

Your not getting bashed its just that this subject has been covered numerous times now. Any person who just bought a dsm comes in and asks what it takes to make 400whp or like you say even 350whp or slightly more. Well it takes alot more than most people realize, honestly. Its not just throw on these parts and viola you have 350+whp. It just doesn't work like that unfortunately. Hell, have you ever driven a 400whp car on the street?? In a car relatively light like a dsm its ####ing scary driving that fast of a car on the street.

Most of the mods you are talking about doing can be done by you(even the most basic mechanic its really all in your confidence) in your garage and taht would save you tons of money. Second you say you are commign in here reading and what not but you need to do a little more. Not trying to be an ass or anything its just the truth. As for the jdm thing, jsut like I said its worthless. YOu are going to drop the intake mani anyway so what's the point of spending the extra money just to have "jdm" the godamn blocks are the same. Listen to that, we are listening to you now listen to us. There is nothign different than a usdm block and the so called "jdm" block. If you want jdm buy a honda or nissan. Dsm were not taken well by the japanese and never will be so jdm does not exist in our world.

 

[dsm-onster]

I share your enthusiasm for fast cars and in particulare the DSM platform.

Why don't you hear me when i say there is a shortage of shops here and i can't do it cause i am a not a licensed mechanic.

You don't need a license or an education from UTI to exceed your goals two fold!!! Give yourself more credit than that. Just a good shop manual and asking those on this forum what to do when you're in a pickle... Never underestimate the reliable & affordable power this forum can put in your car. 8000 bones is worth a 10-15 hour trip to a shop that knows what to do with your $8000 and will give you what $8000 can really do.

If things are done then they are done and enjoy the fact that you picked a shop that 'backs their work'. Reliable power is a thing of awe and beauty to me for sure.

 

[hahnsuper16g]

I share your enthusiasm for fast cars and in particulare the DSM platform.



You don't need a license or an education from UTI to exceed your goals two fold!!! Give yourself more credit than that. Just a good shop manual and asking those on this forum what to do when you're in a pickle... Never underestimate the reliable & affordable power this forum can put in your car. 8000 bones is worth a 10-15 hour trip to a shop that knows what to do with your $8000 and will give you what $8000 can really do.

If things are done then they are done and enjoy the fact that you picked a shop that 'backs their work'. Reliable power is a thing of awe and beauty to me for sure.

Thanks for your understanding and feeling me on the shop thing. I just want it done correctly and tuned properly the first time. From the post above yours i feel very unwelcomed.

 

[dsm-onster]

Thanks for your understanding and feeling me on the shop thing. I just want it done correctly and tuned properly the first time. From the post above yours i feel very unwelcomed.

Don't feel unwelcomed. It's just a post in a thread . Start more threads. Ask more dumb questions. I guarantee if you had asked in this particular forum the basic questions that would have helped/encouraged you to tackle some things we've mentioned yourself and possibly drop the JDM thing, then you may be going down an entirely different path that you would have chosen based on informative, experienced advice.

...take all this information in. you may want to build another DSM engine in the near future... This shop may not be what the reports say it is. Uninformed consumers have made low quailty shops millions.

 

[98eclipseRS]

Thanks for your understanding and feeling me on the shop thing. I just want it done correctly and tuned properly the first time. From the post above yours i feel very unwelcomed.

Just trying to help you save some money and realize the potential YOU have when it comes to working on your car. I don't understand the whole mechanic thing. I am not a mechanic, yet I do nearly all the work on my car short of ripping apart the tranny. Really its not that hard to do, but like I said in my first post you are not going to listen to a thing I say so have fun do it your way and realize later that you should have just listened to some of the people in this thread and saved yourself heartache and money.