Why is these happening to me - 3 turbos

[danieltovar]

Well I have 6 bolt built with shaft elimination kit. Ported stage 3 and 2mm size valves. When I put it in my car after 1 month in half my car started smoking little sometimes smoke then when everything started I was connecting my knock sensor back cause was not making connection bad wires. Then I turn the car back it started to smoke and from there it smoke bad. The turbo had zero play and took it of and order new one from Austin, when I put it right away smoke crazy. Then I took it off send it for inspection and put another one buy from dsm local and change my fed line to the head and when I started the car it smoke right a way alot. Well what the f I have the stock oil drain no kinks and fed from the head why. tire of these car, what's next I have an new build motor and turbos leaking from the oil seals. Another thing I did was put the bov to little hard. Help please before I throw the towel on dsm cars

 

[lauj2gdsm]

check for bearing failure or shaved metal in your filter and and oil pan it could of contaminated your whole oiling system getting into your turbo and failing them right away. just and opinion.

 

[awdtalon4451]

Bro you are over complicating this. Listen to H@xtgsx and just buy the line from RRE like he said and see it if stops or helps with the smoke. If it persist after the restrictor is installed procede with the oil pressure gauge. IMO I think its a little redundant to have one on the turbo and not the motor. And for gods sake please please speak english and use grammer, it makes things so much easier when you need advise!!

 

[93TSiguy]

^dang dude is that your talon in your avatar picture? also yeah man you really should just buy that RRE oil line and give it a shot. wayyy to overcomplicated... i know it can be a lot of things but you HAVE to keep it simple and stay calm. one at a time. its obviously not 3 bad turbos in a row unless you bought them all at a yard sale.

My buddy lives in SF bay area... he's a huge 2g dsm guy has been for years and if he's not flying (pilot) he might be able to actually look at the car with you. His names Juan Ramirez (214) 566-0328 but please don't flood him with Q's just let him see the thread. He's on dsmtuners too. txt him.

 

[jmartinez1228]

Have you done this? IF not this is probably the root of your problem. Everyone has been telling you that you have high oil pressure due to the balance shaft being deleted but nobody seems to think that you should know what can probably fix this.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/319342-oil-pressure-relief-valve-porting.html

And without properly verifying oil pressure going into the turbo you will not know if the restrictor will work or make things worse.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

You said it smokes right at startup, so you immediately throw another new turbo on it? It doesn't sound like you gave it the time to work the residual oil out of the intake system.

 

[danieltovar]

Up date fp black filter with .030 restrictor, fed oil from the head, port ofh, but new turbo again, took the return line and clean clear, disconnect the down pipe. The oil presure at cold start is 80 when no port ofh and know ported same.

Any ideas or somebody when throw these.

Quick question theses is another sprin on the bottom on the 90 oil housing, so one is call relief valve, and what the other one function.

 

[JusMX141]

If you're using a journal bearing turbo, you'd better get that ball bearing filter off there before you ever start the car or whatever turbo you're using is going to be junk in 15 minutes.

 

[danieltovar]

If you're using a journal bearing turbo, you'd better get that ball bearing filter off there before you ever start the car or whatever turbo you're using is going to be junk in 15 minutes.

Ok I just tried it because I want to see if an restrictor would stop the smoke, but it does like it did before it smoke right away, so it will smoke if I but an bigger restrictor.

 

[JusMX141]

Well it's obviously going to take a while for all of the oil inside the exhaust to burn off...don't expect results to be immediate. Hell if you spill a drop of oil on your exhaust manifold while putting oil in the car it smokes for a good 5 or 10 minutes- imagine what having the entire inside of the exhaust coated must take.

 

[danieltovar]

Well it's obviously going to take a while for all of the oil inside the exhaust to burn off...don't expect results to be immediate. Hell if you spill a drop of oil on your exhaust manifold while putting oil in the car it smokes for a good 5 or 10 minutes- imagine what having the entire inside of the exhaust coated must take.

I know that, that's why I put another turbo complete and no down pipe so everything was clean of oil, so it sound like another thing.

My next step is to cut the valve relief sprin, but there is another bolt with an spring in the 90 ofh that the 2g don't have, I would like to know it functions.

 

[miguelmcv]

I was with him helping out,

It's kind of strange that we port the filter housing and the pressure didn't changed at all, it was at 80 psi before and after, we changed the relief valve spring and piston and didn't make any difference at all, the pressure was tested at the filter housing because the head allen plug was stripped and we couldn't get it out to install the gauge, we then swap the turbo with a good known evo 3 that I used to run, it is a legit turbo bought from road race, because we couldn't bring down the oil pressure, we install the .030 restrictor in line for the turbo, we starter up for no more then 2 minutes because it start smoking.

The car runs good and smooth, but after a couple of seconds from the start, it starts smoking, this test was done with the down pipe removed, so we can monitor directly from the O2 housing and avoid confusion from the oil burning at the down pipe.

The day end up and darkness fall down on our face, we will give another shot later on and we will remove the restrictor and cut the relief valve spring to see if the pressure gets down.

Hopefully this will resolve the problem, other wise we will jump to the head and inspect it to see if there is something wrong with it.

 

[danieltovar]

We did a leak down test and it came with 5% all across, we were surpeised how good the risults came, so then we go head and did a compression test and came as fallow.

1----- 178
2----- 155
3----- 153
4----- 160

At this point, we don't know what to think, obviously the compression is not that even, we are thinking to replace the valve seals and see what happens, we just wouldn't like to tear the block apart with out giving a try to see if the valve seals can fix the issue.

However we would like to hear form you guys what would you suggest, all suggestions are welcom.

Forgot to mention that we did found oil in all 4 plugs for the first time, so that's why we would like to replace the valve seals to see IF that stops the issue.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Yea, that's strangely lop sided. Not by a lot, but enough to wonder. When you bought the car, was there any mention of how old the timing belt was? Any broken belts "with no damage....lucky me"? A valve that took a slight piston tap can still hold pressure, it just doesn't do it as well, as it may only be slightly deformed. Someone who doesn't watch their car like a lot of us do wouldn't even notice the difference, most of the time, unless it was a full blown belt snap with the mangled valves that won't shut. I bought a car that had snapped the belt at an idle. It immediately shut down, according to the owner, and as far as he knew nothing hit. He didn't hear anything. I bought it anyhow. I compression tested it, and it came out sort of like yours... 3 lows, one high. So I took it apart, and low and behold, the head looked perfect. The valves all seated. No marks that I could really see on the piston heads.... Yay!.... Then I took the valves out and had them put in a lathe with a micrometer to measure eccentricity on it. They had been hit, but just barely enough to slightly bend them.

I'd cut open a dirty oil filter and run a strong magnet over the guts of it. See if you get steel powder all over it. If you can get a hold of a mechanic's endoscope, I'd pull the plugs and look at the cylinder walls for any scoring also. Also, as you probably know, the valve guides and seals in the head can be leaky pieces of crap too, so look at them.

 

[pj91gsx]

I would keep in mind that the stock oil feedline location would restrict the pressure due to the restrictor in the cylinder head. Your trying to lower the oil pressure, when the problem maybe that the oil pressure is too low. Also, a friend of mine bought a stage 3 ported head and had the dual valve springs, the valve seals had to be certain ones, but they weren't so it caused the springs to wear prematurely. After he fixed that, the head was good for 70k miles until the coolant or oil ports burst in the head. When porting a head, some companies port beyond the limits of what they should, and it gives it a possibility of failure. This head was a bushur racing head.

 

[BogusSVO]

Bad valve stem seals will have no bearing on a compression test.

Think about it for a moment, all the valves are closed on the compression and power stroke.

No way for compression to even reach the valve stems.

But with 5% leak down, and the odd compression test results, I would have to think that the static CR is off.
A common way for this to happen is the head was im properly milled, the head could have a tapper milled into it, making the combustion chamber sizes off.

For example, #1 46cc #2 43cc #3 42cc #4 40 cc

There are 2 ways to test this theroy, CC the combustion chambers, this being the most accurate.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341621-how-cc-combustion-chamber.html

The other will to measure the head at the 4 corners.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...how-measure-4g63-cylinder-head-thickness.html

 

[miguelmcv]

I was just thinking to replace the vallve seals before removing the head andd see if it changes something.

So in a few words, there is no way to see but removing the head.

 

[BogusSVO]

If the valve stem seals are bad, they could allow excess oil past, and into the combustion chamber.

 

[brian9397gsx]

Have you removed your manifold and checked to see if any oil is present on the valves?

 

[danieltovar]

Have you removed your manifold and checked to see if any oil is present on the valves?

The many times that I remove the manifold the runners an the exhaust mani fold where dry, but on friday I will remove the turbo and check the all that again.

On Saturday me and miguelmcv will try more test, and the one that whe will do is put new valve seals, but first to find out to try test on how to find if valve seals are leaking.

Whe don't want to remove the head until whe dicided on simply things.

 

[BogusSVO]

Hard to check, but the guides could have excessive wear, and side load the seals allowing oil to pass when the engine is running.

When the spring is off, try pushing the valve down about a quarter inch, push the valve towards the outside of the head and look at the seal and see if it gaping.

Just do not drop the valve down in thecombustion chamber.

TRY this at your own risk!

 

[danieltovar]

Well whe tested the valve seals and they where good,
Then whe took the turbo out to see if the head runners where wet, they where clean. The valves also look real clean. The exhaust manifold was also dry. When whe look inside the top of the turbo turbine housing where the exhaust manifold meet was realy dry, but the o2 housing was realy wet.
So whe took the compresor side of to see if there was oil and yes alot of oil. The turbine housing had alot of oil just, but like I said the upper part where it meets the manifold is dry.
The pcv was tested and it hold real good.
Everything else like oil fed is from the head, the restrictor was taken off, the return line is 2g and check so many times.
The last thing is the piston rings wow so someone has an idea why the oil is always present on the turbine wheels cold and hot.

Whe will try to look for an non turbo headers to see if there is smoke with out the turbo, cause whe try to turn the car with just the exhaust manifold and it won't

If somebody has opinions or ideas feel free to let us know, if they sound dumb is ok

 

[pj91gsx]

You should post a video so we can see what you see. It would help if you had an oil pressure gauge too. Maybe its an oil pump failure. Its really hard to tell with little information.

 

[miguelmcv]

Well, we took the Head Off and this is how everything looks.

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In one cylinder (#1) I can feel a line using my finger nail, but on all the rest cylinders can't feel anything, It's just visual.

The head looks good and could't see anything wrong with it, It's just a little off on the measurements.

On one side was 132.02 and 132.02 (timing gear side).
On the other side was 131.98 and 132.10 ( thermostat housing side).

I double measure the head and it was not right, however, it was resurfaced with a polish finish look.

What do you guys suggest.

 

[JusMX141]

Any time you can physically feel scratching in the cylinder surface it's bad news.

 

[danieltovar]

Guys from the info and pics could these cause the turbos to leak oil?
Can those pics saying that the there is an way that pressure to past the combastion chamber to make the oil past the turbo seals?
Also in all these what do you guys recomend to do or if these has happend to someone.
I am lost need help my firts dsm car and running into weird problems