Why does my GSX keep getting slower with each upgrade?

[volkerding95GSX]

Hey guys! I usually try and figure this stuff out by myself, but I have no idea what to do next and I am in way over my head. Any help would be GREATLY appriciated. So thanks in advance.

I am stuck in a rut with my DSM build and was hoping you could give me some advice and/or motivation to finish it. It's been disheartening because it seems like every "upgrade" I do to it makes it slower and run worse than before. This car is the first I've ever modified and I have next to no mechanical experience besides the few bolt-ons I've put on.

The eclipse felt the fastest when I first bought it. It pulled hard and never missed out. The only mods it had when I bought it was a small 16g, 1g BOV, K&N fpik air filter, HKS cat-back, Apexi electronic boot controller and a bigger fuel pump (unknown size). At this time everything was great and I had no CEL.

Fast forward after all the bolt ons I've added: (4" Forced Performance intake recirculated, Punishment racing SMIC hard pipes, Stainless steel tubular exhaust manifold, stainless steel 02 housing dumped to the atmosphere, Megan 3" downpipe and 3" Megan cat back with cat-delete.) Now it idles just a little rough, I have a CEL, and the car feel WAY slower than it used to. It doesn't pull hard under boost. The boost gauge reads 10 psi, however I feel nothing but a slow car.

I've done a boost leak test and there was a huge leak in the coupler right after the turbo amoung a few others, so I fixed all the leaks, but it only helped minimally. Still the same symptoms. The oil, spark plugs, and wires are brand new.

Where did I go wrong? Why is my car slower after I upgraded the bolt on parts? Is it a matter of installing too many breathing upgrades and no fuel upgrades? Or should my car still run strong with the upgrades I have?

I still have plans to buy bigger injectors, a wideband, and ECMLink, but that wont be for a long while, so I was wondering if there's anything I can do with my current set-up to make it run strong again. If not, I would love if you guys could give me a rule out check list or a list of parts I would need to get my car running right again. Let me know if you need any follow-up questions from me and I will do my best to answer. Thank you!

 

[volkerding95GSX]

Okay, I got the CEL read today and there was only one code that the scanner found: P0141

They said it was the oxygen sensor. The 02 sensor that is located in the 02 housing is in tact, but the second one that is in the exhaust pipe has been removed. I still have it, but it's stuck on my old exhaust and I can't get it out for anything!! haha, I've tried all the PB blast in the world, but I can't get it out. Should I try to get that 02 sensor back in, or will it even make a difference?

 

[jtmcinder]

That's a hilarious ending to this thread. Several pages of arguing and it turns out the OP yanked this second O2 sensor.

Yes, you need to put it back or get ECMLink (which may have been mentioned before) or some other way to mask off the cat-check CEL. The second O2 sensor is there to verify that you have a cat and it's working.

 

[volkerding95GSX]

That's a hilarious ending to this thread. Several pages of arguing and it turns out the OP yanked this second O2 sensor.

Yes, you need to put it back or get ECMLink (which may have been mentioned before) or some other way to mask off the cat-check CEL. The second O2 sensor is there to verify that you have a cat and it's working.

Glad I could humor you, haha... Since I don't have a cat, I'm guessing the check light will remain. Am I right? I'm guessing this check code isn't what's making my car run poorly. Is there anything else I could/should try before I buy ECMLink? Thanks!

 

[jtmcinder]

You amused me; you are not ready to humor me.

As to clearing the CEL, check post #4 in this thread. That's all I ever had to say. I guess I could now add that you could get one of those cat-CEL defeats, but I think I'll stick with my original advice because I'm a firm believer in not buying stuff you will later throw away.

In case that's opaque: ECMLink includes a cat-CEL defeat.

 

[volkerding95GSX]

Ok, I gotcha. One last question: Would installing the 2nd 02 housing now give me any benefit at all?

 

[dalesmitsu]

1g throttle body and 3inch maft sensor mod will open her up some.

 

[casuprock]

Have you checked the compression? If it's been running lean on an inappropriate tune/injector size... better find out.

Second thing would be to check the knock sensor, the car could be pulling a ton of timing on you making it feel like a slug even though the turbo builds boost just fine. actually retarded timing will make the turbo build boost great (i.e. antilag). Since you can't log the knock sensor without some kind of engine management, just unplug it (but don't go crazy if you like the engine). Retarded timing will seriously impact your power.

I agree with other people, you need some kind of engine management.

Good luck.

If you want to save money on engine management before upgrading to ECMlink or otherwise, use Ceddymods on an eprom ecu. If you never want to deal with CEL or emissions again go here:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/394945-force-obd-inspection-pass-2g.html

 

[Calan]

Have you checked the compression? If it's been running lean on an inappropriate tune/injector size... better find out.

Why would the compression drop if he's been running lean?

Since you can't log the knock sensor without some kind of engine management, just unplug it (but don't go crazy if you like the engine).

Horrible advice. The knock sensor pulls timing to prevent damage to the engine; pulling it is just asking for more trouble.

 

[ricktb]

Turn your boost controller down to stock PSI until you have the fuel support and tuning means to increase it. You still have the advantages of a faster spool and a cooler intake charge. Seriously 10 PSI on a 16G pulls harder than 15 psi on the stock t25. PSI isn't everything! Dial it back a couple notches. Also I did my exhaust full 3" turboback with a FP manifold.. the thing has like no backpressure and the turbo spools out of control. My boost gauge can easily go over 20 psi if I let it and I get no increase in HP, in fact I think it bogs down over 12 psi, and risks damage to the engine since I also have no engine management. Leaner is hotter and your probably couter-acting the intake upgrades you did. Pull the plugs, if they look white your in trouble.

A guy showed me a 4g63 head that was tuned improperly, it literally MELTED the aluminum, and wrote off the engine.

Also, p0141 is the CEL that happens when you eliminate your CAT.. I don't think its a problem since I've been driving my car for over 5 years with this code and it still runs great.

IF you want to take full advantage of your upgrades you need a fuel pump, fuel regulator, 850cc or larger injectors, ecmlink, and a good tune. A better BOV if you want to go over 18 psi... these upgrades should get you to around 22 PSI safely.

But, don't take my word for it......research

 

[Calan]

Turn your boost controller down to stock PSI until you have the fuel support and tuning means to increase it. You still have the advantages of a faster spool and a cooler intake charge. Seriously 10 PSI on a 16G pulls harder than 15 psi on the stock t25. PSI isn't everything! Dial it back a couple notches. Also I did my exhaust full 3" turboback with a FP manifold.. the thing has like no backpressure and the turbo spools out of control. My boost gauge can easily go over 20 psi if I let it and I get no increase in HP, in fact I think it bogs down over 12 psi, and risks damage to the engine since I also have no engine management. Leaner is hotter and your probably couter-acting the intake upgrades you did. Pull the plugs, if they look white your in trouble.

A guy showed me a 4g63 head that was tuned improperly, it literally MELTED the aluminum, and wrote off the engine.

Also, p0141 is the CEL that happens when you eliminate your CAT.. I don't think its a problem since I've been driving my car for over 5 years with this code and it still runs great.

IF you want to take full advantage of your upgrades you need a fuel pump, fuel regulator, 850cc or larger injectors, ecmlink, and a good tune. A better BOV if you want to go over 18 psi... these upgrades should get you to around 22 PSI safely.

But, don't take my word for it......research

Did you read ANY of this thread before posting?

 

[jgore1989]

all i have to say is this is a very intersting thread hahaha

 

[dalesocks]

all i have to say is this is a very intersting thread hahaha

 

[volkerding95GSX]

Another update. My dad bought an air compressor!! I'll be able to do a real boost leak test. haha!

Also, I just sold my MX-3, so ECMLink will be coming soon. Thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread, I learned a lot from listening to you guys. I'll keep ya updated.

 

[jimbob_843]

Whooo, finally a proper blt. Do not use seafoam as previosly stated. Atleast not around the exhaust. Soapy water in a spray bottle.

 

[Calan]

Just saw this:

I am Ultra sorry about the arguement here. I feel like a complete jackass, and look like it too... After reading some material about the 16gs, I found out I was off the mark. I seriously thought it was the Evo turbo we were refering to. That's the only 16g I've dealt with. I respectfully retract my assessment.

Props for that ^ post. It's a refreshing change to see someone man up and admit they made a mistake.

If I ever make one, I'll try to follow your lead and do the same.

(No comments from the peanut gallery keeping score please).

 

[91stocker]

I think its crankwalk. Now...

Crank Walk - YouTube

 

[jtmcinder]

Would installing the 2nd 02 housing now give me any benefit at all?

Do you mean the second O2 sensor? If so, I'd not bother if you're getting ECMLink soon.

 

[gsxeclipse97]

I think its crankwalk. Now...

Crank Walk - YouTube

This made my morning!! Thanks

 

[Screamin4g63]

If i were you i would get bigger injectors then a tune

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Thank you for checking the CEL. Now, forget about it like jtmcinder said, and do a real boost leak test.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Now that the CEL is out of the way, do the BLT, check for pre-turbo exhaust leaks, and check your Meagan 3" downpipe for restrictions (the flex section has been known to close up).

After you find and fix anything that comes of those checks, take that Mx5 money and get link and a wideband. When you order link, go ahead and order the buffer circuit as well so you can log the wideband data accurately.

 

[volkerding95GSX]

\When you order link, go ahead and order the buffer circuit as well so you can log the wideband data accurately.

I don't know what that is and didn't see on the website where you can order that. Could you explain this more to me?

So here's the plan: I'm done with upgrading bolt ons. I would have liked to put a FMIC, but they are expensive and I just want my car running right above all.

Goal: Get the car running right by fixing any boost leaks and getting a good Air/Fuel ratio via ECMLink, all while leaving room to grow with a FMIC/bigger turbo, ect, down the road.

FOR SURE: I will be buying Link, and also a boost leak tester now that I have an air compressor.
If you have any advice for me about ECMLink, please go here:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/421281-getting-ready-buy-ecmlink-any-advice.html

Here's the next part that I'm not sure about. A small list I made includes: Wideband 02 sensor (Do you guys like the Innovate LC-1?), 1000cc Fuel injectors, Fuel pump (no idea what size yet), fuel filter, AFPR (no idea what kind yet), and a manual boost controller to replace my electronic boost controller.

Could you please give me your opinion on which of these parts are a necessity and which parts I don't need now per my goal? Any specifics on brands/sizes would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[danielsl1999gsx]

Well for the Wideband a lot of people including myself run/ran a AEM wideband. They are great and look nice too, and with the classifieds im sure you can pick one up there for a good price. If you plan on sticking with your stock FPR your gona wana stay within a walbro 190, because a 255 would overrun your stock FRP. But if your upgrading that as well get a 255, or again in the classifieds a evo 8 pump ( flows like a 190) or an evo 9 pump( flows close to the 255).

 

[H@xtGSX]

I have a walbro 255lph hp and unless the whine is something you don't mind or like because it sounds like you're powering up the flux capacitor in the trunk, get something like the Evo pumps mentioned or even a Bosch. Mine sounds like the Deathstar powering up to blow up a planet... (I just showed how nerdy I am... Oops.)
I have had good luck with Precision injectors, but I haven't used any of them in the 1000cc range. I have their 550's in my DD and they have been problem free, quiet, and easy to tune to.
Wideband was AEM, until something cooked the gauge part. They are pretty standard issue and work well.
AFPR wise, the Aeromotive units are most popular and have bolt in parts for easy installs, but I had an SX AFPR with 1:1 boost reference and it worked well also and cost less initially. I don't know about long term durability though, as I only had it for a bit over a year. I am borrowing a Magnaflow right now that also seems to be a nice, solid unit.
I have a Greddy EBC that came with the car right now and I am not that impressed. It works up to about 20psi and then gets real shaky. An MBC is simple to understand and adjust, and unlikely to fail without warning.
Fuel filters... Eh, I just use the Autozone Fram filter and install it with the banjo bolt hole inline with the hose inlet. Never had any issues with it.

 

[91stocker]

This made my morning!! Thanks

haha np