Why does my GSX keep getting slower with each upgrade?

[volkerding95GSX]

Hey guys! I usually try and figure this stuff out by myself, but I have no idea what to do next and I am in way over my head. Any help would be GREATLY appriciated. So thanks in advance.

I am stuck in a rut with my DSM build and was hoping you could give me some advice and/or motivation to finish it. It's been disheartening because it seems like every "upgrade" I do to it makes it slower and run worse than before. This car is the first I've ever modified and I have next to no mechanical experience besides the few bolt-ons I've put on.

The eclipse felt the fastest when I first bought it. It pulled hard and never missed out. The only mods it had when I bought it was a small 16g, 1g BOV, K&N fpik air filter, HKS cat-back, Apexi electronic boot controller and a bigger fuel pump (unknown size). At this time everything was great and I had no CEL.

Fast forward after all the bolt ons I've added: (4" Forced Performance intake recirculated, Punishment racing SMIC hard pipes, Stainless steel tubular exhaust manifold, stainless steel 02 housing dumped to the atmosphere, Megan 3" downpipe and 3" Megan cat back with cat-delete.) Now it idles just a little rough, I have a CEL, and the car feel WAY slower than it used to. It doesn't pull hard under boost. The boost gauge reads 10 psi, however I feel nothing but a slow car.

I've done a boost leak test and there was a huge leak in the coupler right after the turbo amoung a few others, so I fixed all the leaks, but it only helped minimally. Still the same symptoms. The oil, spark plugs, and wires are brand new.

Where did I go wrong? Why is my car slower after I upgraded the bolt on parts? Is it a matter of installing too many breathing upgrades and no fuel upgrades? Or should my car still run strong with the upgrades I have?

I still have plans to buy bigger injectors, a wideband, and ECMLink, but that wont be for a long while, so I was wondering if there's anything I can do with my current set-up to make it run strong again. If not, I would love if you guys could give me a rule out check list or a list of parts I would need to get my car running right again. Let me know if you need any follow-up questions from me and I will do my best to answer. Thank you!

 

[brian9397gsx]

I am willing to go out on a limb and guess one of your codes is p0420 since you've deleted your cat.

 

[Kalub]

Yea, if you've lost the CAT you will more than likely have a O2 related code.

I know the local Autozone will pull my DTCs for free. I would start there.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Please humor me here and explain your reasoning for coming to this conclusion. (It's been a long day...maybe I'm a bit slow right now).

The OP is pulling in x amount of air into his motor which is being metered by a stock MAF that doesn't seem to be out of it's range (no fuel cut and only 10psi on a s16g), and a stock ECU is calculating fuel from that airflow, and delivering it through stock injectors (And we'll assume a stock working FPR at factory base pressure since it hasn't been mentioned). So please explain to me again where all this extra airflow is sneaking past the factory MAF without showing up on a BLT, and causing the car to run lean enough to light up an exhaust manifold at 2k rpms (see below), but also running lean during boost instead of rich.



You may want to back off a bit on the being so sure of what is causing problems, especially with a DSM. I've seen plenty of cases (myself included, more times than I can count) where "it HAS to be that" and it turns out to be something way out in left field.



So you are saying that the OP can open his hood while the car is sitting still and idling at 2k RPM, and his EM is going to be glowing red hot from being so lean?

Granted, I shouldn't say anything is absolute... Just so all of the aspects of a normal conversation that are lost in text aren't misinterpreted, I am not taking any shots here... But I am pretty sure I know what I'm talking about in regards to someone running a free breathing 16g on a stock fuel system. He has an airflow system that will bury those injectors before he hits 1/2 throttle. I started throwing 450's into constant open conditions with a 14b. I can get 550s pretty close too with a bit more pressure... A 16g can flow about 100cfm (ottomh, can't remember the exact amount atm) more than what I run. I think I can pretty safely say he is running lean, without it being a stretch in assumption. The symptoms also match the diagnosis. So yes, if he sat there with his foot on the pedal, reving it past 2k or so, with that system, I do think you would see that manifold start to light up. It's a tubular manifold too, so I don't think it'd take long to comfirm that, though that isn't something we are going to ask confirmation of. I am aware of what my ecu did when faced with smaller changes than what has been done to this car, and it leaned out.... Sooooo.... Will the stock system run it? Yes, for a while. Does that mean it isn't running lean? No. I would happily put my money where my mouth is if this were a face to face discussion and we had the car on hand... I may be fairly new to these cars, but this isn't my first time around the track.

 

[Calan]

OP - Here is another thought...depending on what the CEL is, it may be possible that your ECU is in limp mode, causing it to pull timing and run very conservatively.

He has an airflow system that will bury those injectors before he hits 1/2 throttle.

To the best of my knowledge, about the most airflow anyone has seen on a very well-tuned s16g is 39-40 lbs/min or so. With that said:

The 2G MAS should be good up to around 50 lbs/min; so no problem there.

At 43psi base fuel pressure and an AFR of 11:1, stock 450cc injectors should be good for up to about 26 lbs/min at 80% IDC, or something like 32 lbs/min at 100% IDC on gasoline. Since it usually takes 25 psi of boost or more to max out the s16g at just 38-39 lbs/min, I highly doubt that only 10psi of boost is anywhere near the 32 lb/min absolute max of the injectors. At the very worst, I don't see him running lean enough for long enough to melt engine parts at 10 psi of boost. If anything, he's most likely knocking due to lean spikes and the ECU is pulling timing as others have eluded to, causing the loss in power.

Of course, that assumes there isn't some other weirdness going on...which is usually the case it seems.

I would happily put my money where my mouth is if this were a face to face discussion and we had the car on hand...

If we had the car on hand, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And you could put your money towards the beer that goes where my mouth is.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Ha! Well, I would have no qualms with supplying that beer. At least I know we're on the same level. I think we are basically saying.the same thing, except I have to type all this crap out on a phone touch screen and won't bother to put an in depth novel to explain every detail because this thing sucks and my thumbs are too damn fat at the ends.

I agree with what you are saying to an extent, and I do think its knock spikes yanking the timing down low. Those numbers you stated are idealized figures though, and we both know that there are exceptions to those rules, mainly due to variance in tolerances and ecu logic. If the ecu had been driven constantly under those conditions, I would expect it to run a little better, but not much. And a 16g at 10 psi is still moving a lot of air, especially when you are talking about a system that adapts progressively. Plus, are we sure 10 psi is all we are talking about? When you started messing with these things, did you always test everything with the wastegate open first? I didn't... And I have been at this a while and should know better. Even at that low though, and untuned, I bet those injectors are wide open when he starts that .car, and I doubt they back off much until its running closed and has been for a while, at which point it'd flop the other way. Like I said, I did less to the exact same system and came up lean, so personally I'd toss the ecu handling 50lbs figure in the round file under anything other than it being brand spanking new in perfect conditions. If it reacted anything like my car did, it hasn't compensated worth a crap yet.... I recognize that you obviously know more than I do as to specifics here (and I appreciate the info) and will say that if we we're both standing over this engine, I would take your advice over my own first..... But I still would betcha a pack of good brew he'd light that manifold up if he even stood on it halfway... Even at 10 psi, which I am willing to bet it would creep past, if the ecu didn't cut it off and dump fuel in on open1... Based on my own experience.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I bet those injectors are wide open when he starts that .car.

I hope this is a joke, and you don't seriously think that his 450 injectors would be at 100% IDC's while he is at idle, regardless of what turbo he is using.

I don't know what kind of experience you had with your car (that you keep referring to) that is making you think that he is running so lean and hot at idle, (or 1/2 throttle or 2,000 RPM's, etc). Guys have run 11's and 12's on the stock 450 injectors; his engine isn't going to melt with a s16g at 10 psi. We won't know for sure without a logger, but I'd bet he is flowing less air with 10 psi on his s16g then a 14b would at 16 psi and I've done that with no problems.

 

[Calan]

If the ecu had been driven constantly under those conditions, I would expect it to run a little better, but not much. And a 16g at 10 psi is still moving a lot of air, especially when you are talking about a system that adapts progressively. ... When you started messing with these things, did you always test everything with the wastegate open first? I didn't... And I have been at this a while and should know better. Even at that low though, and untuned, I bet those injectors are wide open when he starts that .car, and I doubt they back off much until its running closed and has been for a while, at which point it'd flop the other way.

You completely lost me with just about that entire discussion.

Plus, are we sure 10 psi is all we are talking about?

Well... yeah. Unless the OP can't read his own mechanical boost gauge; in which case the entire thread is pretty much a moot point.



EDIT: Damn it... I've got to start remembering to refresh before posting.

 

[hazmat6135]

I have a dumb question and i'm only speaking from experience of doing this myself. when you put in your new pipes and mods did u make sure to plug ## maf back in? all the things like no power and CEL will happen if you didn't. it's super easy to overlook. so i'd say go back and check that then double check all your sensor connections. after that get a wideband and find ## AFR's and get link/safc to help get it tuned right. gl!

 

[H@xtGSX]

Alright, I'm not pushing the issue. How many 95's have you dealt with from scratch? (not an attack, I am seriously asking) I stated everything I said from observations I saw with my own 95 recently. That is how it responded to the increase in airflow, and yes, it is a progressively adaptive ecu. Drive one with your foot on the floor for a month and then drive it normal... It will not respond the same way it did before that month. Both of you also need to get it straight that I am not saying the engine is going to melt at an idle, but as he stated, it is already not responding correctly even at idle. Also, no, I don't think they are 100% open at idle... Figure of speech. (This is why I hate arguing by text, as conversational cues are lost in translation). If he drives that car though, at higher rpm, and especially at higher pressure, it will go lean. End of story. As for the 450's being adequate for anything past an idle or very light driving on this car.... Look at his list of modifications again. I don't see anything that is going to allow him to walk that knife edge safely. He is obviously at the bottom of a steep learning curve already, and you would have him run on an almost non existant margin of error just to prove a point?

He needs more fuel, plain and simple. I don't think anyone can argue that. If you want to run a 16g with 450's, go for it, but I sure as hell wouldn't tell someone else to do it. I'm not arguing this anymore.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Both of you also need to get it straight that I am not saying the engine is going to melt at an idle, but as he stated, it is already not responding correctly even at idle. Also, no, I don't think they are 100% open at idle... Figure of speech. (This is why I hate arguing by text, as conversational cues are lost in translation). If he drives that car though, at higher rpm, and especially at higher pressure, it will go lean. End of story. As for the 450's being adequate for anything past an idle or very light driving on this car.... Look at his list of modifications again. I don't see anything that is going to allow him to walk that knife edge safely.

You aren't saying that he is going to melt his engine at idle or at 2,000 RPM's (pre-boost)? I'm glad you cleared that up. I agree that you can lose some translation over text but you have been preaching the destruction of his engine this whole thread.

Really lean, to the point of burning stuff lean. If you want verification, go get a ir themometer from a shop and check the temp of your exhaust manifold while it is running. I bet it is near red hot at just 2k rpm.

Don't fart around with anything else until you can get more fuel into the motor or you will burn it and be rebuilding very soon.

If you don't have anything to increase your fuel ratio, you are seriously headed towards a burnt up motor... You MUST get the fuel to match ASAP or you WILL be paying for a rebuild at best or a new motor if it blows up...

Personally, I wouldn't even drive it in that state. I can guarantee that CEL is from the fuel trim out of range code. It won't take a heck of a lot when it is that far out of whack to burn up a piston, blow out the head gasket, etc... It's already right on the very edge of any of those things happening.

He has an airflow system that will bury those injectors before he hits 1/2 throttle... So yes, if he sat there with his foot on the pedal, reving it past 2k or so, with that system, I do think you would see that manifold start to light up.

Even at that low though, and untuned, I bet those injectors are wide open when he starts that .car, and I doubt they back off much until its running closed and has been for a while, at which point it'd flop the other way... he'd light that manifold up if he even stood on it halfway... Even at 10 psi, which I am willing to bet it would creep past, if the ecu didn't cut it off and dump fuel in on open1... Based on my own experience.

He needs more fuel, plain and simple. I don't think anyone can argue that. If you want to run a 16g with 450's, go for it, but I sure as hell wouldn't tell someone else to do it. I'm not arguing this anymore.

While I agree that he will need more fuel to get the most out of his setup, I do not think that his problem is that he is running super lean at idle, cruising, and low boost. I think this is a plain and simple mechanical issue. Therefore I will not recommend that he spend over $1,200 ($400 for link, $300 for injectors, $100 for a pump, $200 for an AFPR, and $200 wideband) on more performance parts that may or may not fix his problem. You said he needs to do that FIRST. I say he needs to get his CEL light read FIRST, replace the fuel filter, and do a boost leak test properly (not with a bicycle tire). Fix the problems first. Then he can spend a grand on tuning and fuel so that me can turn the boost up and make more power.

I am also not going to sit here and recommend that someone push his car to an unsafe point and destroy his engine. Do you think that I would have been on this site for over 9 years and would have been labeled a wiseman if that was the case? You said that he shouldn't even drive the car. I disagree. I don't think he should be flying around town at WOT or taking it to the track on Fridays, but I think he should be able to drive it back and forth to work and around town without melting anything. In a perfect world, sure, he should spend all that money on performance parts tomorrow. But not everyone has $1,200 burning a hole in their pocket or the ability to park their car and not drive it until they can spend that kind of money on it.

 

[H@xtGSX]

No, I am not trying to discredit you and I agree with your suggested approach, but I am preaching destruction because it is dangerously close for someone who isn't familiar with how to tune for afr in a car that was already modified when he bought it. I have seen more than a few motors blown up by people in nearly them same situation. Given that car, what it should be capable of, and someone new to the machine, I predict kaboom. He does need to do all the stuff you mentioned, and I may be spoiled because I have an obd interface I can check that stuff with in the car with me, so it seems to be a no brainer. If I were a shop and this car was brought to me, the fuel system would be the first thing to get changed. Between the car and the owner, the margin for error is too small. I know your credentials, but I'm not backing down from what I have said. I'm not totally inexperienced either. He doesn't HAVE to spend $1200 to get the fuel system upgraded. I didn't. He doesn't have to have link, but it is the best option for him. An SAFC would work, but as far along as it is, I would be more comfortable knowing the changes made were a bit more self explanatory than percentages on a afc. We don't even know what kind of fuel pump it has right now. Those fuel injectors are 16 years old. I doubt they are the panacea of fuel they used to be anymore. There's too many variables there for me to recommend someone to risk it. Once the little stuff is cleared up, that fuel system is the elephant in the room. I still wouldn't drive it until that was addressed. Take that for what it's worth. I am not a wiseman, just a wiseguy, but I drive the same car and have pretty much rebuilt it from the ground up. I know my car better than the inside of my own house.

You're in El Paso, drive over and I'll give you a tour of my tiny 2nd home... I'm still remodeling the bathroom in the trunk, but the rest is pretty nice... (and if you happen to have an extra wideband gauge you'd part with, bring it along).

I sincerely am trying to help, and I totally give respect to the senior people here. I have had a lot of help given and I hope to return the favor, but this isnt a DD from what I understand, and I would always err on the side of caution if there isn't a pressing need to use the vehicle.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

No, I am not trying to discredit you and I agree with your suggested approach, but I am preaching destruction because it is dangerously close for someone who isn't familiar with how to tune for afr in a car that was already modified when he bought it. I have seen more than a few motors blown up by people in nearly them same situation. Given that car, what it should be capable of, and someone new to the machine, I predict kaboom. He does need to do all the stuff you mentioned, and I may be spoiled because I have an obd interface I can check that stuff with in the car with me, so it seems to be a no brainer. If I were a shop and this car was brought to me, the fuel system would be the first thing to get changed. Between the car and the owner, the margin for error is too small. I know your credentials, but I'm not backing down from what I have said. I'm not totally inexperienced either. He doesn't HAVE to spend $1200 to get the fuel system upgraded. I didn't. He doesn't have to have link, but it is the best option for him. An SAFC would work, but as far along as it is, I would be more comfortable knowing the changes made were a bit more self explanatory than percentages on a afc. We don't even know what kind of fuel pump it has right now. Those fuel injectors are 16 years old. I doubt they are the panacea of fuel they used to be anymore. There's too many variables there for me to recommend someone to risk it. Once the little stuff is cleared up, that fuel system is the elephant in the room. I still wouldn't drive it until that was addressed. Take that for what it's worth. I am not a wiseman, just a wiseguy, but I drive the same car and have pretty much rebuilt it from the ground up. I know my car better than the inside of my own house.

You're in El Paso, drive over and I'll give you a tour of my tiny 2nd home... I'm still remodeling the bathroom in the trunk, but the rest is pretty nice... (and if you happen to have an extra wideband gauge you'd part with, bring it along).

I sincerely am trying to help, and I totally give respect to the senior people here. I have had a lot of help given and I hope to return the favor, but this isnt a DD from what I understand, and I would always err on the side of caution if there isn't a pressing need to use the vehicle.

Everything you have posted in this entire thread is moot for the simple fact that he is only running 10 PSI.
None of that matters now, and is only distracting from the fact that the OP has a check engine light on, and for all we know his MAF doesn't work at all, or something else that makes his car run like crap. If he was running 16-20 PSI, then sure, but he's not, and he didn't say he was about to, so what's the point of preaching gloom and doom.
I own and operate a repair shop, and if you worked for me, and tried to sell the customer a fuel system upgrade "first", and not read the codes "first", you would be fired plain and simple.

 

[H@xtGSX]

If he drives that car though, at higher rpm, and especially at higher pressure, it will go lean. End of story.

Since we are quoting me, that is my final answer and the meat of my argument...


I never said don't check the CEL first so don't imply that I did, but I also think as stated above it is probably related to the missing cat or the fuel being off the expected mark..... And don't worry, I've worked in a shop before and wouldn't want to go back to that daily pissing contest, so you won't have to fire me. I work independently now and it is much more agreeable. Don't get so worked up because I happen to disagree with a few of your points. This isn't a shop and I'm not an employee.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

If he drives that car at higher pressure than around 14psi, it may go lean. End of story.

Fixed

 

[H@xtGSX]

Fixed

nice... Maybe 14. Not knowing exactly what its background is would make me say lower... And since it already is showing problems that seem to progress as he upgrades, I would suspect much lower.

Nitpick if you must, go ahead and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. His car is reacting the same way mine did as I upgraded. I don't see another 95 driver disagreeing... Matching the fuel system to the turbo fixed it and a host of other problems disappeared too. Next time you have a 95 handy, throw on an intake, 16g, a tube manifold, and a 3" exhaust without doing anything else and turn it back on... Drive around. Keep it at 10 psi... Then call me a dumbass. This has become a spectacle and I am bowing out.

OP: Do like they said. Check the CEL, take care of the little stuff first. I suspect it won't totally fix it, though it will be nice for you if I am wrong. The fuel system is going to come up short though and you will need to address it if you want to drive it like a car and not a golf cart. Best of luck and be careful. Pm if you'd like.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

You're in El Paso, drive over and I'll give you a tour of my tiny 2nd home... I'm still remodeling the bathroom in the trunk, but the rest is pretty nice... (and if you happen to have an extra wideband gauge you'd part with, bring it along).

I sincerely am trying to help, and I totally give respect to the senior people here. I have had a lot of help given and I hope to return the favor, but this isnt a DD from what I understand, and I would always err on the side of caution if there isn't a pressing need to use the vehicle.

I noticed you are located nearby. I'm hoping you go though with making the cheap, light, ugly, carbon fiber hoods. I plan to paint mine if I ever get one so the weight and not the look of the weave is what will matter to me. We are getting of topic here though.

OP, update us when you check the CEL and/or do a real boost leak test.

 

[Calan]

Nitpick if you must, go ahead and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. His car is reacting the same way mine did as I upgraded. I don't see another 95 driver disagreeing... Matching the fuel system to the turbo fixed it and a host of other problems disappeared too. Next time you have a 95 handy, throw on an intake, 16g, a tube manifold, and a 3" exhaust without doing anything else and turn it back on... Drive around. Keep it at 10 psi... Then call me a dumbass. This has become a spectacle and I am bowing out.

I'm pretty sure nobody has or is considering calling you a dumbass.

The point is, airflow numbers don't lie....no matter what year DSM it is or how old the ECU is. Although you make some good points (and I agree it's always better to be safe), you are grossly exaggerating potential problems based on what the OP is telling us. And since we aren't there looking at his car, we have to assume that things are in fact as he states (including mods, amount of boost, type of fuel, etc. etc.), until proven otherwise. As for why you see your car react in a certain way compared to the OP, it could be due to one missing detail or any of a hundred different things, including the experience (or lack thereof) that you yourself mentioned.

The reason we (the site staff) may seem overly argumentative on a simple topic sometimes is because it can lead to a lot of misinformation over time; people start searching for similar problems (yeah right ), and pretty soon it's a well known "fact" that 10 psi on a s16g will absolutely 100% be guaranteed to melt your EM and pistons unless you run giant injectors....and it simply isn't true.

By all means continue to help people out and post opinions and suggestions, as you seem to have some good information and experience to share. But please keep that ^ in mind as you type your responses.

 

[Tyeler18]

I have very similiar mods on both my talons as the OP. My personal DD has a small 16g running, you guessed it, 10lbs of boost. I have logs showing my IDC's at ~82% at WOT on that s16g at the MOST, this is on base 1g (37psi) fuel pressure. Another one of my 90's is running an ebay 16g and at 12psi is at ~87% IDC at the most, this one is running 43.5psi base fuel pressure via an aeromotive AFPR. Both cars are on stock 450cc injectors with very similiar mods as the OP.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Dammit... I was done with this and then you had to go and be logical, and now I have to say something ...

I understand the why behind your defense, and I am largely in agreement, if you don't read extra into what I said. This melting pistons at 10 psi at idle stuff DID NOT start with me. Someone else inferred it from my statements. I don't think his motor will go up like thermite at 10 psi. I don't think it will be much beyond that though. Airflow numbers don't lie, I agree, but the way they are used will affect the end result. If I can get my ecu to run lean with a 14b under 15, then there is an element of the ecu that is being overlooked that does make a difference in the response to modification. I would love one of the raw programmers to explain the coding in plain English some time, but I don't know of anyone who has gone so far as to completely decode the firmware. I may have overstated the issue in my first posts, but the issue remains, and I think we all agree if he wants to actually DRIVE the car like a car, the fuel system is too small. If he weren't nearly so cautious as to ask about it, I would bet the motor would've already cratered and we'd be reading a thread about how he blew it up, not about how it is progressively declining with upgrades. My ecu ran fantastically rich initially after my swap. 10 mpg highway rich... But when it hit closed loop conditions and switched over, my exhaust temps shot up immediately and got to the point it overpowered the cooling system in a few minutes. The voltage on my o2 at its high bounce didn't pass .5v during that response, and I gave it some gas. I didn't know what to look at. My sensors were new, off a new rebuild, with no anomolies. I swapped my 95 ecu for a 96... Not quite the same response, but close... I tried my friends 98 GSX ecu (yes we changed the CAS and wires) and it ran better with a couple minor adjustments. That is why I don't agree. If I was completely wrong, why would there be a discrepancy between those ecu's? I know what the airflow numbers are. I know what they should equal out to mechanically. That isn't exactly what happens. You older guys know this also, but are sticking to the numbers, even though I know that you've likely thrown on a turbo you thought would be just right for your set up, and you've had to make some fairly large adjustments despite it being a "perfect match". I have had that happen several times. Just remember that textbook conditions only exist in textbooks the vast majority of the time. Thus, I STILL stand by what I SAID (not what was inferred), and I would recommend upgrading the fuel system, after taking care of obvious things like CEL's (which I reflexively take care of, thus I don't think it needs pointing out... ) before using that car for anything more than a conversation piece filling up the garage.

Now that my thumbs hurt, I will say this again and call it quits as this is feeling like a waste of my time at this point. I am not contradicting the majority of what has been said. Don't read more into it than exactly what I stated. I have no ill intentions at all for anyone. If it were your car and someone gave you 2 different pieces of advice, one on the conservative side, the other somewhere around "probably ok" and it is your wallet that will pay for the mistake if we are wrong, what would you do?

 

[Calan]

I have very similiar mods on both my talons as the OP. My personal DD has a small 16g running, you guessed it, 10lbs of boost. I have logs showing my IDC's at ~82% at WOT on that s16g at the MOST, this is on base 1g (37psi) fuel pressure. Another one of my 90's is running an ebay 16g and at 12psi is at ~87% IDC at the most, this one is running 43.5psi base fuel pressure via an aeromotive AFPR. Both cars are on stock 450cc injectors with very similiar mods as the OP.

You need to park both of those cars and STOP DRIVING THEM IMMEDIATELY unless you want melted motors!

(sorry... couldn't resist)

This melting pistons at 10 psi at idle stuff DID NOT start with me. Someone else inferred it from my statements. I don't think his motor will go up like thermite at 10 psi.

Just stop. No one inferred anything; these are YOUR words:

If you are on stock injectors with what you listed, you're lean. Really lean, to the point of burning stuff lean. If you want verification, go get a ir themometer from a shop and check the temp of your exhaust manifold while it is running. I bet it is near red hot at just 2k rpm.

It isn't anything else, you are too lean plain and simple. Don't fart around with anything else until you can get more fuel into the motor or you will burn it and be rebuilding very soon.

If I can get my ecu to run lean with a 14b under 15, then there is an element of the ecu that is being overlooked that does make a difference in the response to modification. I would love one of the raw programmers to explain the coding in plain English some time, but I don't know of anyone who has gone so far as to completely decode the firmware.

The DSM ECU has been decoded, and has been well understood for years. There is a perfectly logical reason (usually many) for why it does what it does. It isn't some magical, mystical thing that does things differently on a whim.... usually.

My ecu ran fantastically rich initially after my swap. 10 mpg highway rich... But when it hit closed loop conditions and switched over, my exhaust temps shot up immediately and got to the point it overpowered the cooling system in a few minutes. The voltage on my o2 at its high bounce didn't pass .5v during that response, and I gave it some gas. I didn't know what to look at. My sensors were new, off a new rebuild, with no anomolies. I swapped my 95 ecu for a 96... Not quite the same response, but close... I tried my friends 98 GSX ecu (yes we changed the CAS and wires) and it ran better with a couple minor adjustments. That is why I don't agree. If I was completely wrong, why would there be a discrepancy between those ecu's?

Why did your car behave a certain way under certain conditions? Coolant temp modifying timing, different weight/drivetrain causing it to read from different load indexes in the AFR/timing tables, variations between battery voltage or sensor ground reference, different octane fuel causing the secondary maps to be used, etc etc. Could be any of a thousand things that contributed to what you see on YOUR CAR compared to what the OP is seeing on HIS CAR. To make a blanket statement that implies he is about to melt his motor simply because a similar situation happened to you, when the numbers and facts don't support it is bad advice. Period.

BTW - this:

But when it hit closed loop conditions and switched over, my exhaust temps shot up immediately and got to the point it overpowered the cooling system in a few minutes. The voltage on my o2 at its high bounce didn't pass .5v during that response

... appears to be a different problem with your car altogether, related to an issue with the O2 feedback and closed loop. And I really have no idea how your EGTs would "overpower the cooling system", or what that even means.

...this is feeling like a waste of my time at this point

On this I agree 100%. It's a waste of all of our time, and is clogging up the OP's thread. I think everything has been said that needs to be.

 

[volkerding95GSX]

Hey guys, just letting you know I'm going to get the CEL light read tomorrow. Is there anything that you would like me to check, take pictures of, or take video of while I have my car out that would help understanding the car's problems? Let me know, Thanks!!!

 

[H@xtGSX]

I am Ultra sorry about the arguement here. I feel like a complete jackass, and look like it too... After reading some material about the 16gs, I found out I was off the mark. I seriously thought it was the Evo turbo we were refering to. That's the only 16g I've dealt with. I respectfully retract my assessment.

Most likely the CEL number will pin point what you should be looking at. If it isn't something glaringly obvious, post the number here and I'm sure one of us will answer about what you should be looking for.

 

[LiquidX]

OP:

While you get it read, I would invest in a can of combustion chamber cleaner (SeaFoam), not to clean your piston tops but to use as a testing device. I'm un sure how much you know about SeaFoam or it's counterparts, but when it is introduced into the motor via a vacuum line slowly, it will clean the chamber and produce a ton of smoke.

This is exactly what you want, smoke. Any exhaust leaks you have will become visible by the smoke and a pre turbine exhaust leak will cause you to run slower as well even though you may be able to hit 10psi via your gauge. Mentioning this since you re did your exhaust system.

As for the boost leak test, I highly recommend that if you don't feel like making one, get one of these.
Intake Leak Pressure Tester

I have a both testers and the boostpro tester is junk compared to the Silicone Intake. SI tester is metal and has a lip for the coupler to lock onto prevent it from popping off unlike the boost pro tester. Be sure to use soapy water when testing for leaks and you need to try to find the bubbles on any part that sees airflow.

But yes, I'm leaning towards an exhaust leak being the culprit. As others have mentioned, you will want to get a good tuning solution like ECMLink (check to make sure you have an EPROm ECU being a '95) and upgrade your injectors.

 

[volkerding95GSX]

Hey guys, I wasn't able to get my CEL checked today because when I went to get my car out I noticed my tags expired in June of 2011. I didn't want to risk getting a ticket, so I'll try and get it inspected and licenced tomorrow and while I'm out stop by Autozone. I'll holler at you guys tomorrow. Thanks

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Hey guys, I wasn't able to get my CEL checked today because when I went to get my car out I noticed my tags expired in June of 2011. I didn't want to risk getting a ticket, so I'll try and get it inspected and licenced tomorrow and while I'm out stop by Autozone. I'll holler at you guys tomorrow. Thanks

They will check your CEL's as part of the inspection.