1G Who has installed an automatic turbo 2G trans in a 1G?

[scottr126]

I remember the mount was not going to fit, the whole engine/trans assembly was like 20-30mm too wide. I know it was not just the adaptor plate that was the problem, I dont remember there being any issues with the frame rails.

-Scott

How far off was the fitment for your 2g auto in your 4th gen? Massive amounts of cutting to the framerails you think? Or was it a trans mount problem?

 

[dsm dork]

Ya I see where the number is coming from and then you have the chart that moderators on here refer too and the one I don't buy is the service manual, which sounds really odd I know.

Let's just take your slip as an example why there can't be a 4.42 as the final drive ratio.

Let's say you are going through the traps at 8500.

TCI - TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Racing Calculators

So, 8500rpm, 26" tire, 4.42 final ratio, trans 1, mph 149 = -.1%

A restalled/non locker 11" converter can't be over or at 100% efficiency.

Ok plug in 9000 as the rpm, 5.75%, I don't believe this at all, no way they can give you extra stall and be that tight up top using existing non bent finned stators. As soon as you bend the stators fins the efficiency will start to drop off and it doesn't start off at 0%. If you had a 9" converter then I could believe this, but not an 11" that is stalling higher than it's designed intent. This is my beef here with the final drive, getting an 11" to stall and be super efficient at 5% is NOT going to happen. If you said it was not a restall I could buy it.

This is why the 4.42 number just won't add up, the 4.06 number makes way more sense.

As much as I would like to buy a 5% efficient 1G non locker that will stall at 4k I know it can't be an 11" with bent stator fins. I would believe the Precision 1G could as it's 9.5" and done by Precision.

Kiggly stated his 9.5" Precision was slipping at something like 5.5% and I believe he also states the final drive as 4.42. So using that drive for both you guys you get this

Your 11" restalled converter is as efficient as Precisions 9.5" converter. Too much of a stretch IMO.

I'm not trying to bust your balls, I just want to nail down 1G vs 2G options and this efficiency aspect of the two trans.

That's the best thing about MY reman converters, they don't use an 11" core. We can get over 5000rpm's on the stall and still have it tight and efficient up top. I'll put my reman up against precisions 9.5" anytime especially because we offer certain parts in our converters that are pretty much an industry standard that IPT, Precision and I don't even think Hughs offers. I'll stick with my 1g converter over having to swap everything to 2g just to use the lock up to get that extra 5% which if you don't know how to use it right will hurt you. Plus it saves me from spending another 2grand that's not needed.

That's why I kept telling you no one will do it with an 11" converter.

 

[Jason's TSI]

Those numbers are accurate, but the car is most likely going through the traps at around 9000rpm on the 148.9mph pass. It is a 11" converter and it only stalls to about 3800rpm without any boost, 5psi its about 4100rpm, and 20psi at about 4900rpm which is where we launch it. The car pulls consistant low 1.4 and high 1.3 60ft times as long as the track prep is decent. I would not trade these converters for any other, it is proven (at least to me) that it works perfect for what I'm using it for. Hughes does not offer the converter I'm using to the public.

 

[Jason's TSI]

Also if you play with the numbers just a little, things change. If my 26" tires actually grow or measure 26.5" at 148mph then the slippage would be closer to 8%

 

[Car Cannibal]

60awhp from the lockup is my point, that's a lot of power that the torque converters slip away ( though you are making a ton of power already ). The rpms dropping is normal, nothing to worry about.

As for your 10" Dsm Dork, if you can get some customers to back up your claims I am sure a lot of people would buy it, myself included.

I guess this thread has turned into a final drive ratio search, that would clear up a ton just there.

I could sell my 1G IPT trans/converter and shift box for probably $1700 ( $3700 spent ) then get a

Used 2G $400
Kiggly Adapter $300
Precision $925
Manual Shift Box $100 ( buddies )
Or if HighPsiGuy does the 2G Tcu chip mod then wire that setup in the car.

I would break even and it would kill my $3700 IPT set up which doesn't build more than 3psi out of the hole at 2800rpm.

 

[Jason's TSI]

So if 60AWHP is your point, then you are going to run the converter "locked up" all the way down the track? Or just lock it up on the top end for that extra .005mph?

 

[Car Cannibal]

No offense, are you serious??WTF I would think a guy like you running so fast would want every hp touching the ground.

I know this community is not familiar with locking the converter but if you think that 60awhp in 3rd is only going to give you .005 mph then don't worry about torque converters slipping and boy do JMF and Magnus need to stop advertising 4mph gains by switching over to their intakes. Just buy what they SAY works and leave it alone and don't check any of the numbers. Why do you think racers send back converters to get that few extra % in efficiency, sure the hell isn't for .005 mph. Oh wait, no one on here even checks for this crap so sorry, it's probably not worth checking for then and let's keep taking stock converters and restalling them and piss away tons of power. No one remembers Dunrite but they got their ass handed to them when Precision came around, I wonder why.
Oh ya, WAY higher stall, WAY more efficient and all in a 9.5" converter for $675 ( at the time with no core fee ). Why would you want to piss away any bit of power with a lazy converter when we spend so much time and $$ into MAKING power??

Call Precision and see what they say, cars like Grand Nationals gain a minimum of 2 mph by locking it in 3rd alone and those cars don't have as much HP as these cars do or rev nearly as high ( 5800-6200 ). Meaning a higher revving/HP car will gain MORE!! And that's 2 MPH over the already efficient Precision that is in the car running down the track. IF you can get a super tight non locker then great, but most racers feel anything beyond 5% is too loose, I do too which is why I am ditching the 1G. Precision is gone and there is no PROOF that there is an efficient 1G converter out there.

Let's do this, forget the final drive ratio crap and torque converter crap, back to the original thread.

WHO HAS PUT AN AWD 2G AUTO IN A 1G??

 

[Jason's TSI]

All those super high horsepower v8 drag cars must be really missing out. How fast are you planning to go? 10's? a good factory restall is all you need, if you sweat high trap speeds so much, put a 5-speed in it. An automatic is all about ET.

 

[Car Cannibal]

I have an E85 Turbo 69 GTO in progress and us V8 guys sure as hell don't use stock restalled converters and DO worry about converter efficiency. When you are pushing 800-1500hp you sure as hell don't want 10% of it pissed away, so you keep track of time slips and then send the thing back if it's not around 5% up top, yet stall around 3000-4000 down low.

As it stands now, my car won't run in the 12's because my crappy restalled converter not won't build more than 3psi but the thing is slipping up top. This car should do super low 11's no prob, if I can just find a damn converter for it.

Regardless of time slip, slipping converters are a drag.

 

[scottr126]

I have a kiggly adaptor plate for sale.. PM me if interested.

 

[JohnTSI]

I can't believe Jason just wasted his time bickering with someone who can't run better than a 12 with a restall???

This car has held the AWD auto record on several occasions and at this point is currently .03 off of it. Not to mention NO AWD AUTO CAR has trapped higher in the quarter. All on A RESTALLED convertor. If that doesn't speak volumes I don't know what else does. The car also picks up more from the 1/8 to the 1/4 mile than Deans car with his Precision billet stall.

It stalls enough to get the car out the hole and it also runs the mph on the big end. You can disagree with us until you are blue in the face and spend 2k to keep running your 12s. The car puts down the numbers and proves it point on its own. Its not vodoo, it works. The car also runs a small 68mm compressor not a 74mm compressor like everyone competing with us for the record. Then again its also running STOCK tranmissions with very little problems one filled with custom parts.

Hell the car went 10.9@125 on its first trip to the track 4 years ago with the same convertor, just not spragless, what are you running again?

I wish you the best of luck with your setup but next time you try to explain to the guys who are OUT THERE DOING IT how wrong they are just don't waste your breath.

And if I hurt your feelings or come off as an ass at this point I could care less. You are telling someone who knows what he is talking about because he is doing it, what you think SHOULD happen when you are obviously failing poorly at doing it, and on top of that bassically calling him a liar.

 

[Car Cannibal]

I love these replies, fast = knowledge regardless of proof.
Prove your high stall, stock restalled 11" is tight up top and shut me up then.

Are you taking offense at my posts because someone like me is done with stock restalls and see's a much better alternative to them and is looking into other peoples setups etc?? IF you think your stock restall is better than a Precision 2G lock up converter, more power to ya, and I have a wax that will make your DSM gain 2mph up top, forget about locking it, just run the wax, and it's $500 with a core fee on your old wax.

Stock restall converters are WAY overrated. Call any knowledgeable converter shop and ask them you want to stall around 5500 and be tight up top, see what they recommend you buy, sure the hell isn't going to be an 11" restalled converter. This community is still years behind in automatic transmission development and seems to back any shop that feeds them B.S. about stock restalled converters. Don't believe me, please just call any race converter shop and see for yourself. Then you will see why Precision is the ONLY way to go if you want both the stall and efficiency up top, money well spent, big point here.

The ONLY post that had actual numbers was Kiggly, he knew his rpm etc and already knew he slipped only 5.5%, we were still talking about Jason's as he didn't remember his exact rpm # to get his real slippage.

, I can't run better than 12's with a restall because the converter SUCKS!!! it won't spool over 3psi on the low end and slips like a bi*** up top?? Yet when I got a local Joe converter shops restall it went to 3300 rpm's and 10psi for only $250. So I guess I should just keep giving more and more of my $$ to DSM shops that say it will do this yet it doesn't??

I have plenty of goodies in the car to run low 11's with a great converter, guys with my set up are putting down 550awhp, does that make my comments about torque converter efficiency any wiser, no, but it probably does to people like you because the car will put down a faster # giving my beef with slippage more legitimacy. Terry at Precision doesn't even own a DSM so I guess he knows jack about this topic also right.

If you missed the thread, it was initially about 1G to 2G swaps, then turned into a torque converter efficiency thread which is one reason why I am switching, trying to get #'s because they don't lie.

Not knocking Jason's times, never have, but seeing what his converters doing and stacking up his info vs others is helpful to us all. Or wait, let's just keep running stock restalls as race converters, 17 years after the cars been made, UNLIKE any other performance car, and just be happy regardless of what they are doing.

But what do I know, I only have experience with 4 different cars transmission converters all through out my years and this car is the only slow one I have that also has a stock restall.

Again, let's move on, I'll post back when the local around here does the 1G 2G auto swap.