Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

[Ludachris]

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

 

[pooya]

Do you have a good reason to only go to 550cc injectors? You're going to need a S-AFC or some other type of fuel management system anyways, so why not go to 660cc? You should make all of your parts choices based on your end goal with the car. If you go to the bigger injectors you can have more power and better spool with the Evo3 turbo as well as the peace of mind knowing that you're not maxing out your injectors.

Im using a safc, and you cant really tune 660 with it..(well, you can..but not unless you are really good).

If I take it to get dyno tuned, they can perfectly tune the 660s..right?

and does anyone know the average price of dyno tuning?

 

[97_eclipse_gst]

Right now im in the same situation that your in and i aslo have a fwd. I have been trying to decide whether to get a big 16g or the evo III. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that im going to be getting the evo III from the research i have done, the reason is it will help me produce a little more power and spool quicker. Also if possible for you go with the bigger injectors.

Good Luck

 

[Carter97GSX]

The shop I used to go to charged $90/hr for tuning, and they had their own wideband and stuff so they could do pretty good with the S-AFC. The only problem is the timing issues when trying to correct for larger injectors. If I'm not mistaken you can purchase a chip for it that will approximately compensate for the injectors and eliminate the timing issues. Then you can take it down to the dyno and get it absolutely perfect after a 1-2 hour session. Thats what I'm planning on doing with mine once I have the money.

 

[pooya]

The shop I used to go to charged $90/hr for tuning, and they had their own wideband and stuff so they could do pretty good with the S-AFC. The only problem is the timing issues when trying to correct for larger injectors. If I'm not mistaken you can purchase a chip for it that will approximately compensate for the injectors and eliminate the timing issues. Then you can take it down to the dyno and get it absolutely perfect after a 1-2 hour session. Thats what I'm planning on doing with mine once I have the money.

im not eprom...so no chip for me.

and cant they do anything about the timing advance during the dyno tune?

 

[Carter97GSX]

If I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I'm wrong here) you don't have to have eprom from the factory to do it. You just have to get your ecu socketed for it and then put the chip in with the new settings. Also, the S-AFC is not able to directly change the timing. All it does is manipulate the amount of air the engine detects thereby changing the amount of fuel delivered at any given time. If you put in big injectors then you'll have to tell the engine that there is less air than there really is, and the engine will respond by delivering less (it thinks) fuel. Problem is that the ecu also responds to a high throttle low airflow situation by retarding the timing and killing your power. This is why you need the chip as well as the S-AFC. I'm just repeating what I've read on this site, so you should search around and double check what I've presented here.

 

[pooya]

If I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I'm wrong here) you don't have to have eprom from the factory to do it. You just have to get your ecu socketed for it and then put the chip in with the new settings. Also, the S-AFC is not able to directly change the timing. All it does is manipulate the amount of air the engine detects thereby changing the amount of fuel delivered at any given time. If you put in big injectors then you'll have to tell the engine that there is less air than there really is, and the engine will respond by delivering less (it thinks) fuel. Problem is that the ecu also responds to a high throttle low airflow situation by retarding the timing and killing your power. This is why you need the chip as well as the S-AFC. I'm just repeating what I've read on this site, so you should search around and double check what I've presented here.

perhaps i was wrong...
thanks man, i will look into it.


Can anyone tell me what the max psi difference is between a big 16g, and evo III. everytime i ask this...no one has an answer.

30 extra hp really doesnt seem worth 260 extra bucks + ecu+getting it socketed+dsmlink.(thats IF i have to get a eprom to use a chip)

 

[pooya]

also, does that seem like a good deal?
big 16g, with FIC 550's for 475? 3k miles on them.

 

[Carter97GSX]

Well, you don't have to have dsmlink to use the chip, dsmlink is capable of reprogramming the chip while its in the car but you can buy one that is approximately preprogrammed for your setup and all you have to do is fine tune it with the S-AFC. Here is the link to where you can buy these chips. Lots of good info here, but I'm not sure of the general opinion of them around here. http://www.dsmchips.com/

Next, don't think about the turbo output purely in terms of the pressure coming out of it. Just because everybody asks you how much psi you're running does not mean that it is a reflection of your power output. The temperature of the air is just as important, and that is where compressor maps enter the equasion. I could not find the compressor maps for these turbos so I can't tell you how efficient each would be in delivering air at a given psi and flow rate. Bottom line is this though, the Evo3 is bigger and spools better due to a more modern design so its going to make more power by delivering the air at a lower temperature at the same pressure. I cannot be sure of how much difference in power you would see. Check out some of the setups poeple are running and compare them to get an idea of what each one is capable of.

That deal on a big 16g and 550's sounds good if they all flow within specs, and the turbo is in good shape, however, its only a good deal if that setup is going to take you to your goals.

It's been said a thousand times on these forums, but I'll say it again anyways. Choose your parts based on your goals for the car and not the deal you find on them. You'd be a lot better off saving up for bigger injectors and turbo than you would be getting that deal and then wanting something more out of your car a year down the road. Hope this helps you.

 

[keymaster]

Just to clear this up folks...you NEED to have an EPROM ecu in order to get it socketed. You can NOT socket a non-EPROM ecu.

 

[Carter97GSX]

Yep, you're totally right, I just did some research and it seems that you have to get yourself an eprom ecu before you can do what I was suggesting. I guess that will kind of change the cost benefit analysis for you, but to give you an idea the ecu you need costs about $250 on this website, but this is the first one I saw so you could probably get a better deal someplace else. Thanks for correcting me keymaster.

 

[Carter97GSX]

And the link........

http://www.ffwdconnection.com/electronix.shtml

 

[zimus]

i have the evo111 turbo its very nice, pulls strong. but if i had to do it again i would just save up and get the fp3065 thats what i will be getting some time soon, just do it right the first time. and i would buy some bigger injectors, just because your always going to want to go faster give yourself room to grow

 

[toofasteclipse]

Trying not to steal this thread but, I heard the evo 3 spools faster than the small 16g.

 

[pooya]

i have the evo111 turbo its very nice, pulls strong. but if i had to do it again i would just save up and get the fp3065 thats what i will be getting some time soon, just do it right the first time. and i would buy some bigger injectors, just because your always going to want to go faster give yourself room to grow

Im sure I'll be upgrading later on....but when I do, 660s wont be big enough. I will go BIG, and for now...this is my first turbo swap, and first time tuning...so I don't really have the option of going big.
If I was more experienced, I would just start big...but I think I should work my way up.

 

[mario009]

i have a 95 eclipse gsx it has a built 6 bolt block 2g stage V slowboyracing head with 272 cams and fidanza cam gears, front moutn hks bov aem ems, running speed density, aeromotive fuel pressure regulator walbro 255 high pressure turbonetics manifold , stock intake manifold, 660 lucas injectors, stock tranny , act 2100 clutch lightened flywheel.. OK HERES MY QUESTION i have just sold my old turbo which was a t3/t4 50 trim garrett turbo and i have no turbo right now i have spoke to slowboy racing, a place where i live called FORCEFED RACING in reno nevada, and a couple of other places like FULL FUNCTION in he bay and midnight performance in sac. FULL FUCNTION said to get a gt35r or gt30r but slowboy said to get something other than those turbos because theyre REALLY laggy and they wouldnt recomend for a daily driver. FORCEFED SAIDTO GET a 60-1 and import evolution said to get a 60 trim. I HAVE NO CLUE WHCI TURBO I SHOULD GET..... i want my car to be a daily driver and to beat anybody that pulls up next to me on a quarter mile dash. SO CAN ANYONE HELP ASAP before i buy somethin stupid-thanks

 

[joeracer321]

i have a 95 eclipse gsx it has a built 6 bolt block 2g stage V slowboyracing head with 272 cams and fidanza cam gears, front moutn hks bov aem ems, running speed density, aeromotive fuel pressure regulator walbro 255 high pressure turbonetics manifold , stock intake manifold, 660 lucas injectors, stock tranny , act 2100 clutch lightened flywheel.. OK HERES MY QUESTION i have just sold my old turbo which was a t3/t4 50 trim garrett turbo and i have no turbo right now i have spoke to slowboy racing, a place where i live called FORCEFED RACING in reno nevada, and a couple of other places like FULL FUNCTION in he bay and midnight performance in sac. FULL FUCNTION said to get a gt35r or gt30r but slowboy said to get something other than those turbos because theyre REALLY laggy and they wouldnt recomend for a daily driver. FORCEFED SAIDTO GET a 60-1 and import evolution said to get a 60 trim. I HAVE NO CLUE WHCI TURBO I SHOULD GET..... i want my car to be a daily driver and to beat anybody that pulls up next to me on a quarter mile dash. SO CAN ANYONE HELP ASAP before i buy somethin stupid-thanks

I think a 60-1 would be a great choice for your application and it is a whole bunch less expensive than a 35R! But I think that the Holset HX-40 is also another good option offering great flow at a great price! The 35R flows 60 Lbs/min and is over $1500, where the HX-40 flows 75 Lbs/min and is almost 1/2 the price! The 60-1 would run about the same as an HX-40 and flows about 60 Lbs/min. Hope that helps, good luck with your project

 

[FattyMatty]

They flow similar Numbers Josh, Because the 60-1 utilizes a similar Garrett Compressor wheel as the GT35R. The 60-1 flows 60 LB/Min, The GT35R Flows 65 Lb/Min. On a street car looking for quick spool, and great mid-range and just flat out awesome top-end performance, go with a Ball Bearing GT series, I dont know who you talked to here at SBR, but we love the Gt30 and 35R.

On a side note, I love the Holset Turbo's I run an HX35 now and love it. The 40 Is next.

If you want to pinch some pennies, but looking for a monster, get a G60-1, or an SCM-6152E from PTE, Journal Bearing design, great reputation, a little laggier than the GT series due to the Bearing choice.
If you dont mind spending a little extra, it will pay you back down the road, with the sweet feeling of tearing that 2JZ a new one. Get a GT35R, they are by far the best Top shelf High flow, Big power turbo for a street driven terror.

Thanks,
Merrel

 

[2G_RFF_GST]

I'm trying to decide what turbo i should get. I'm not going to do a whole lot of mods. Just the basics. (intake, BOV, MAFT, exhaust, UICP, SAFC). Would i be able to run decent times with a 14b or should i look to go bigger? And are there any other mods i would need? I don't want to go too big though. My car Won't see much over 300hp, if it even reaches that. I just want a decent reliable street car.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

an e316G will be perfect for your goals. It will carry you into the 300 fwhp range and be a daily driven, reliable car. Of course that's all dependant on how you treat/maintain your car, but the theory is there. If you don't injectors yet, also consider doing that before you upgrade your turbo.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

An EVO III 16G would be good, but the 14B would also be fine. 14Bs have seen 12s and even 11s at the track, course thats with supporting mods but still, what^^^said or what I said would suit you quite well.

 

[ShadeTreeDSM]

like the title says..im looking for a t3/t4 style turbo thats good for 600-700 fwhp

my 93 DSM is gonna be my project for the next few months..doing the whole 2.4 liter deal..so im getting info first on the size of the turbo..

anyways whats a good turbo to go and get ? ?

i called PTE and they have a pretty nice t3/t4 ball bearing on a T3/T4 PTE SC67 P-Trim

they said its good for about 730 flywheel..if i could make 650 fwhp with that id be happy..what do you guys think ? ? let me know !!!!

 

[ericbev]

I hate to sound cliche or mean, but if you plan on making this kind of power, you really shouldnt have to ask this question.

 

[CanadianTSi]

I hate to sound cliche or mean, but if you plan on making this kind of power, you really shouldnt have to ask this question.

Exactly what I was going to say.

 

[ShadeTreeDSM]

I hate to sound cliche or mean, but if you plan on making this kind of power, you really shouldnt have to ask this question.

Exactly what I was going to say.

i was asking because i dont know much about PTE's Turbocharger's...if i wanted to be simple and make it easy all i would have to get is a straight t4..but i dont feel like selling my DNP t3/t4 manifold...i wanna stay t3 turbine housing and make one of the fastest dsm's down here on all boost

 

[brute]

I'd say go with full T4. That's what shep runs. But 650whp on a FWD would be insane, if at all driveable.