which route should i go with for high 13's?

[96gstdsm]

I have been posting a bunch here trying to find out and learn which turbo i would want to go with for my setup. Let me start out by saying that i am going to be using it only as a dd! i want to keep it reliable and safely tuned! having that said... i am trying to see which would probably be better to go with in order to get a high 13 second 1/4 mile and hopefully somehting like maybe 0-60 around 5 or so. i am not going to be taking it to the track or doing any drag racing at all. i just want a very fast nice ride . would the best option be the evo3 or the bb 50 trim? or neither? I obvisouly would instal all the supporting mods for whichever turbo i do go with. Which would be best without extreme modifications? i plan do do all the normal upgrades(fuel, fmic, exhaust, safc etc) which setup would probably get me number around there? i dont know if this is bench racing but i just dont know what the equivelant h/p would be to state as my goal i would like to see. so mid if possible to high 13's or even around 14 1/4 mile i think i would be very pleased with. Are these unrealistic goals for a reliable dd? could this be acheived without too
much upgrading? would 300 horses give me those numbers possibly? or atleast the potential to get them with improved launches etc?

I really like to be able to be on the highway and then just take off already going like 60 or more? starting from a stand still is not as important but obviously would be nice(i know i have a gst so much harder but still would be nice).

ok well if poeple with personal experience or know what numbers get someone to that sort of a goal please let me know. It gets so damn frustrating to try and decide what would be best when it just turns into an A vs B debate! if poeple could just list more the benifets of each and which would get me where the best etc i would be very gratefull.

thanks alot ---ryan.

 

[silver bullit]

Maybe a 16g small or big is up to you with suporting mods, however people have made 12s with the 14b.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

a 14b, with race gas and a boost controller. If need be, Weight reduct for free. Goodluck.

 

[20psi_GST]

If all you want is a fast daily driver just go with a T3/TO4E. A 16g is gonna spool up to fast for you on high boost, hell my 20g will put on a smoke show from a 40 roll kick. You need something that is gonna lag a little bit on the bottom but up top do some damage. It will land you high 12's tho but whats wrong with going faster.

T3/TO4E (800 dollars
Walbro 255 (100 dollars)
Boost Controller (depends on manual or electronic)
Injectors (your choice)
SAFC (control the injectors) (270 dollars)
Upgraded IC Piping and IC (depends on FM or SM)
Aftermarket BOV (200 dollars)

You could get out cheaper if you wanted to go with the easy 16g setup but it will get old and trust me, you will always want to go bigger no matter how big you alrdy got. This is a good turbo and is a good turbo for your first upgrade. But is also capable of making OVER 550whp. As just an Evo3 16g is only around 400whp. Its your choice, good luck

 

[96gstdsm]

Thanks 20psi gst. not sure if i am going to want that type of crazy power right away, still gotta get to know my car a little maybe . anyone know any numbers that you can get with a evo3 set up? with the basic simple mods and not running too high on boost? what sort of 1/4 mile or h/p? high 12's would be crazy. might want to step to something else first so i dont jump to the fastest i would ###### go then. thats why i was thinking like mid to high 13's i guess. Also i want to have this as a daily driver and not a drag car, so i am not interested in using race gas or doing any weight reductions to my car as of now. Can anyone give me some figures with the evo3 with a not too crazy supporting mod set up?

 

[Spooling99]

I just posted in your thread about you wanting a BB 50 trim. That would be overkill for 13's. You need to figure out your goal first. A BB 50 trim can net you 11's with perfect tuning and driving. For 13's just as 1993eclipeGS said 14b race gas and only a driver seat. Do more researching before starting a thread that has been answerd many times before.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

If all you want is a fast daily driver just go with a T3/TO4E. A 16g is gonna spool up to fast for you on high boost, hell my 20g will put on a smoke show from a 40 roll kick. You need something that is gonna lag a little bit on the bottom but up top do some damage. It will land you high 12's tho but whats wrong with going faster.

T3/TO4E (800 dollars
Walbro 255 (100 dollars)
Boost Controller (depends on manual or electronic)
Injectors (your choice)
SAFC (control the injectors) (270 dollars)
Upgraded IC Piping and IC (depends on FM or SM)
Aftermarket BOV (200 dollars)

You could get out cheaper if you wanted to go with the easy 16g setup but it will get old and trust me, you will always want to go bigger no matter how big you alrdy got. This is a good turbo and is a good turbo for your first upgrade. But is also capable of making OVER 550whp. As just an Evo3 16g is only around 400whp. Its your choice, good luck

Where's the AFPR? Its nessisary when upgrading the stock fuel pump past a wally 190.

I have posted in a few of your threads, already, my suggestion was the evoIII 16G, this will get to into your range. But if 13s is all you want then stick with the 14B like 1993eclipseGS said. But its not all about the power your putting down with your fwd. With an AWD you can put a huge turbo, and all the supporting mods and be running 11s or high 10s. With the same set-up of power us fwd guys might be hitting low 12s, the difference is with our suspension set-up, you will want a Quaife LSD(front of course), and either springs and struts, or a set of coil-overs, with the rear set to its hardest setting, and the front to its softest setting. With that suspension set-up, a 14B, race gas, MBC or EBC, a good tune, some seat time, and a little weight redustion like taking the spare tire, and jack out, take the rear seats out, and the passenger seat out(taking the passenger seat out only if you do decide to go to the track), with all that you could hit low/mid 12s...but not on your first go of course, you still would have to get use to the car, and get a good launching technique.

Dustin

 

[KBasham03]

yeah dont under estimate the power of the 14b. with good supporting mods, it can pull some nice numbers. and best of all it wont break the bank

 

[92awddsm]

For the goals you have at the moment, the evoIII 16g will get you there and still leave room to grow. It does spool quick which can cause traction problems on a fwd but since you will seldom be running from a standstill, this isnt going to be as big of an issue as what other people are stating. The 16g will also be a very pleasant upgrade for a dd and will need less supporting mods and no fitment issues that you will run into with a to4e turbo.

Before you start looking for turbo upgrades, start with all of your supporting mods, logging device, and tuning device. You might be surprised of what your car is capable of with just a good tune. The best route for you to follow is the tuning guide we offer here on dsmtuners. Stick to the tuning guide and Im sure you will end up where you want to be.

http://dsmtuners.com/sub.php?page=2gtupgrades

 

[96gstdsm]

Ok thanks alot for the info, but like i said THIS IS A DAILY DRIVER! so i am not going to be running it with race gas!! or taking out all my seats etc! all i want is for it to be a bunch quicker like maybe mid 13's or a little bit faster, and i am not going to be racing it, maybe a couple of time to get a timeslip.
Would the evo3 get me more power than the 14b would with the same supporting mods and tune and at same psi? i want to have it be a very safe tune without putting to much strain on the engine at all.

 

[20psi_GST]

Where's the AFPR? Its nessisary when upgrading the stock fuel pump past a wally 190.

I didnt really think about it, i figured i would forget something. I run a Walbro 255 with my 20G on 22psi and i dont have a AFPR. It is on my list and will be my very next mod here in a few days but ive been running the stock FPR for about 4-5 months.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

For once I'll agree with the Evo 16G choice. You'll have no problem going high or even mid 13's.

14b and race gas is stupid, beyond stupid in fact. I don't like paying $10.50/gal to run C10 in my car every day. Get a proper sized turbo and you'll make the same power safely on pump gas. Don't push a part to 101% of its limit when there's another part that will do same thing working half as hard.

 

[96gstdsm]

Thanks alot mybeatgsx! finally something that doesn't involve using $10/gallon race gas and taking out all my seats! If the evo3 will get me those kinds of numbers with all the supporting mods than i think i will have to go with that one ###### for my first turbo upgrade. Without out too much crazy tuning and all could i even realistically hit low 13's with a evo3 16g turbo setup? As i know that you always want more after not too long(which is fine with me but dont want to start with the fastest turbo and then not have much to upgrade to for street driving)

 

[92awddsm]

Thanks alot mybeatgsx! finally something that doesn't involve using $10/gallon race gas and taking out all my seats! If the evo3 will get me those kinds of numbers with all the supporting mods than i think i will have to go with that one ###### for my first turbo upgrade. Without out too much crazy tuning and all could i even realistically hit low 13's with a evo3 16g turbo setup? As i know that you always want more after not too long(which is fine with me but dont want to start with the fastest turbo and then not have much to upgrade to for street driving)

With a good baseline tune, good driving, and proper supporting mods, you should be capable of achieving mid to low 13's. Since every car, driver, and tune are different, this is not a guarantee that you will run these times.

 

[slipstream808]

EVO 16g's have gone into the 11's with some good driving and wicked tuning. 12's are no problem. And 13's... well you're just trying not to go fast if you are running 13's.

Go to turbochargers.com and get the EVOIII 16g total solution. It wont break the bank.

 

[UofACATS]

Before you start looking for turbo upgrades, start with all of your supporting mods, logging device, and tuning device. You might be surprised of what your car is capable of with just a good tune.

Someone already answered exactly how I was going to, so I'll quote for emphasis.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

^Don't start talking it up beyond what its worth. He's looking for a mid 13 second turbo, not an 11 or 12 second turbo. It is neither one of those on a wrong wheel drive car, and even with AWD that's a loooong shot.

Low 13's is going to be pushing it on a FWD. Keep in mind, with FWD and those e.t.'s its no longer a matter of the turbo, but a matter of traction. I'm in the mid 12's with my Evo on a shitty tune and a semi stripped interior. It will make enough power to pull one of these land boats down the 1/4 in 12 seconds, but whether your tires and chassis can keep up is the question.

The solution to faster times in a FWD involves disgusting amounts of power. That way when you finally hook at 60mph the power will pull you hard and fast and make up for the poor traction at lower speed. This is why we have 11 second AWD DSM's that trap 116mph and 11 second Civics that trap 125mph. The difference in the first couple hundred feet of the track.

Keep in mind. On the street from a role (especially the highway), that Civic will MURDER the AWD. When comparing how cars will do in a street/highway race the only thing that matters is trap speed. In fact most of the Honda guys I know (or any FWD car owners) don't even care about e.t.'s, they're shooting for trap speeds. Since you said you'll have limited track time, the fact that your car can't get under a 13.5 is meaningless. You'll be making enough power to destroy AWD's running 12.5 on the highway. My friends EG Civic coupe went 13.9 @119mph. Everyone thinks its slow because it ran a 13.9.... not so. Crappy tires, crappy suspension, and lots of power will do that for you. We've killed 6.0 GTO's, Z06's, etc in that car.

Welcome to the FWD game, focus on your trap speeds, not your ET.

 

[cool_g_83]

Product Not Found!

Did they stop these or are they out of stock on parts?

 

[baocoyyie]

13s isn't really a goal. Budgetwise, intake, exhaust(2.5" or 3"), mb controller, 1G BOV(for your 2G) are mandatory first ugprades. If that gets you close to being happy, grab a used 14b, if not, a 16G will do. Everything else is optional unless you just happen to have extra cash.

 

[baocoyyie]

Oh yeah, practice your launches with the FWD, it will make all the difference.

 

[20psi_GST]

Focus on your trap speeds Thats not always the case. A friend of mine has a GSX, we both basically had the same mods back in the day when we were sportin the T25. We went to the track alot. He mostly pulled 2.0 or 1.9 60ft times from a 4000RPM launch and i was doin 2.1 or 2.2 consistantly in my FWD. His times were around 9.4 @ 75 and mine around 9.1 @ 82 w/ shitty street tires, and i mean real ####in shitty, almost bald, but i only had 18psi of pressure. With just a set of drag radials my 60ft could of been in the 1.9 range without a problem. Had he been running the same boost as me and could of got his ET in the 9.1 range his trap would of been up to par with me, not as much but very close. Dont focus on your trap speed dude. Just worry about the 60ft and thats all you need, after that just make sure u dont miss a gear. ####in tryin to get a huge trap is ### and boring. I love controlling my throttle and trying new things (thats why its called a test and tune) to lower my ET. If you concentrate on your 60ft and dont really worry about anything else, your ET will dominate because you have 2 less wheels to pull.

Look at it like this, if someone says they went to the track today. The first words out of your mouth are what? "What did you run?" NOT "So, What did you trap?"

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

Buy a 1g awd, put $500 into it (some guys will be able to do it for less), learn how to launch, boom your in the 13s.

 

[20psi_GST]

Buy a 1g awd, put $500 into it (some guys will be able to do it for less), learn how to launch, boom your in the 13s

nicely put. I especially liked the BOOM

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Focus on your trap speeds Thats not always the case. A friend of mine has a GSX, we both basically had the same mods back in the day when we were sportin the T25. We went to the track alot. He mostly pulled 2.0 or 1.9 60ft times from a 4000RPM launch and i was doin 2.1 or 2.2 consistantly in my FWD. His times were around 9.4 @ 75 and mine around 9.1 @ 82 w/ shitty street tires, and i mean real ####in shitty, almost bald, but i only had 18psi of pressure. With just a set of drag radials my 60ft could of been in the 1.9 range without a problem. Had he been running the same boost as me and could of got his ET in the 9.1 range his trap would of been up to par with me, not as much but very close. Dont focus on your trap speed dude. Just worry about the 60ft and thats all you need, after that just make sure u dont miss a gear. ####in tryin to get a huge trap is ### and boring. I love controlling my throttle and trying new things (thats why its called a test and tune) to lower my ET. If you concentrate on your 60ft and dont really worry about anything else, your ET will dominate because you have 2 less wheels to pull.

Look at it like this, if someone says they went to the track today. The first words out of your mouth are what? "What did you run?" NOT "So, What did you trap?"

Pulling mid 14's in your mostly stock T25 machine is fairly easy. Traction isn't even really a problem when you're putting out sub 200whp. Anyone can pull a 1.9 60' in a low powered car.

When dealing with cars that are actually making power, your ET will be SLOWER because you have 2 less wheels pulling you along. Your trap speed however will be higher because, well, you have 2 less wheels holding you back when traction is no longer a problem. Good luck with throttle control on a larger turbo too, never going to happen. Its all or nothing. You hit boost, the tires are gone, simple as that. Its very different than the boost at idle T25. You can throw slicks on your car and pull a decent 60', but then what happens after that? You bang second gear and break them loose. Then you hit 3rd and just keep spinning. I don't care what you're running for tires or how you're launching. This guy is going to need a good 300whp and that much power (and the torque he'll have with it) will break the tires loose no matter what.

I've got plently of experience with HIGH power fwd cars, don't correct me.


And no actually its more like, spend $500 and run 13's then BOOM, you're carless.

 

[20psi_GST]

Your wrong, theres no need to correct you. Slicks and break em loose in 3rd? are you joking. Dude ive got friends with 500whp SRT-4s and they run slicks and dont break em loose in 3rd. And sub 200whp is a bit off, i was making around 240whp on my little T25 pushing out 19-20psi on just pump. You can control your throttle with a decent clutch. I had stock clutch and all i would do is rev to 2700 and ride clutch slowly so the RPMs didnt drop. Then once i felt myself moving fairly good just dumped it. Broke em loose in first, big deal, caught second and they gripped so hard it felt like i was gonna break an axle, dude i didnt even need drag radials. 2.1-2.2 all day on damn near bald tires. And the 9.1 was WITHOUT an SAFC tune. With an SAFC tune and 625cc injectors i did 8.8 @ 84.768 which im sure you know is around 13.6 in a FWD. Theres your high 13s right there.

Im not doubting you on the traction issue with a big turbo. But with just some BFG G-Force Street tires they will grab second without a problem. My 20g on 22lbs hooks just fine on the street with those bad boys. How much bigger of a turbo are you talking about when im making almost 350whp on pump? I run race gas BTW