Which Crower Cams and Accessories to Buy?

[jacobevan611]

I searched for a while but I couldn't find any info on this. I have a 98 eclipse n/t with 68000 miles on it. I have a few bolt ons such as exhasut, intake, headers and test pipe. Should I get stage 1 or stage 2 crower camshafts and also is there anything else i need such as valves, bearing and retainers when buying the new cams. thanks.

 

[bullettdsm]

The "norm" is Crower 2's. You will not need any titanium springs or formica keepers or any of that crap Valve float at this stage is a fallacy. The Crower 1's will net you very little. You may get a little rougher idle but not too much to be concerned with.

MB

 

[knight007]

also when doing these you should spring for the pt cruiser lifters and rollers while your at it

 

[Fotowntalon]

I got the stage 2 and they run fine with everything else stock up to 7200 rpm. However at around 7400ish rpm i think i get valve float(not really sure what it feels like for sure). It almost feels like i it a rev limiter but not really. So as for upgrading i think it depends on how hard you feel like pushing it.

 

[bullettdsm]

I've run the crower 2's over 8000k on a stock valve train (140k on it) multiple, multiple times (but don't bother, there's no real power up there without other big boy mods). I did it just to show that it could be done without valve float. I've done 174whp (ish) with the stock springs (8k redline) with no signs of valve float.

IMO valve float is a myth for our cars that is perpetuated by vendors that want to cash in on the sales.

MB

Not a bad idea for the PT valve train

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

Not a bad idea for the PT valve train

And some 2.7 rockers too. Might as well while you're in there

 

[jacobevan611]

So what everyone is saying is that all I have to do is order the cams and bolt on the stock cam gears and throw the new cams in using the stock valves lifters springs and bearings and ill be fine?... I can use the stock cam gears right? and one more thing... will i notice a dramatic increase in performance with the cams? (not trying to bench race but im not about to spend 500 bucks on something thats no even going to be worth it.) thanks guys.

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

The butt dyno will leave you with a healthy smile.

It definitely feels like the car was suddenly "uncorked" and you'll notice that it pulls harder up until the factory ECU yanks the timing out from under you at around 6K rpms (which is normal anyways)

Like Bullet and I said, since you're gonna be in there you might want to upgrade your lifters to PT Turbo units and the rockers to Intrepid 2.7l V6 units to make sure you don't damage anyting in the long run, but it's not necessary. Stock valvesprings work just fine, but if you want a cheap upgrade 4G63 springs can be used in a pinch

You can also throw on some adjustable cam gears for fine tuning but it's something you can do down the road as well

Edit: I miss my crower 2's

 

[Fotowntalon]

So what everyone is saying is that all I have to do is order the cams and bolt on the stock cam gears and throw the new cams in using the stock valves lifters springs and bearings and ill be fine?... I can use the stock cam gears right? and one more thing... will i notice a dramatic increase in performance with the cams? (not trying to bench race but im not about to spend 500 bucks on something thats no even going to be worth it.) thanks guys.

Yep it is a direct bolt on. But like people are saying, if you are going to have it opened up anyways, if ya have the cash, upgrade, if not.. you'll still be fine. As for cam gears, those don't do anything, unless you plan on dynoin and tuning, if not, leaver you stockers on, and you will be fine.

As for performance, its roughly the same feel till you hit 5k rpms, thats when they really kick in, you should notice the difference. The downside, a lot of epople experiance stalling in neutral and reversing for the first couple days, don't be worried, its normally the ECU learning the different air/fuel mixture. If i where you, depending on the mileage on your car, I would replace the timing belt aswell while you have it open. The cams are gonna put more stress on the belt, and if it is to worn you are going to be skipping teeth.

 

[jacobevan611]

Alright thanks everyone. I replaced my timing belt about 1 thousand miles ago so i'll be fine. Another thing. You really don't knowtice a power difference untill 5k rpms?

 

[Fotowntalon]

for me yes, but thats the fun of owning a 420a, our powerband doesnt really start to kick in till around 3500-4000 anyways. Once you hit 5k with the cams, you can tell your wheels just break free. If you redline shift you should be in the 5k+ range 95% of the time anyways.

 

[jacobevan611]

thanks alot fotowntalon you and everyone else has been a lot of help. Now i just have to decide whether to save for the cams or save for this... MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 95-99 JDM SPORTS 420A TURBO KIT non turbo to Turbo

 

[Diamondrev]

thanks alot fotowntalon you and everyone else has been a lot of help. Now i just have to decide whether to save for the cams or save for this... MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 95-99 JDM SPORTS 420A TURBO KIT non turbo to Turbo

i think thats an ebay turbo kit.

 

[jacobevan611]

I know, that's what I thought but idk it looks okay it comes with everything too. downpipe, fuel pump, fmu etc. But ya back to the cams. Does anybody know how difficult it is to install them? Does the entire cam timing belt cover have to come off? thanks.

 

[Fotowntalon]

for a little bit more money i would get 420a Turbo kit 95-99 Eclipse Talon - TREADSTONE PERFORMANCE
but thats just my preference, i obviously don't have a turbo =P and while you can peice them together for cheap, you want to make sure you get decent quality parts, turbos are something you could easily blow your engine with if you don't know what you are doing.

Back to cams, installation is all about how much you know, as well as the random problems you will inevitablly run into. I know it took me and a friend over 6 hours(we replaced the timing belt and water pump aswell) to install my cams, cause we ran into so many random problems. I think we broke at least 3 bolts when torquing down the cams to the hahns specified torque, and other random problems which made us make numerous runs to part stores.

Sense you have replaced your own timing belt, it will take roughly the same effort, sense you have to take your belt of again and etc. Just be careful about torquing things down in the right order and everything.

 

[Locke]

Be sure to place the cam caps back into their original locations. They should be marked.

 

[jacobevan611]

Actually i had the shop replace my timing belt and water pump. I have never really been deep into my engine beside headers and intake. I am very worried about the instalation. I know a decent amount about these engines and I also have my dad who has been building v8s since he was 17 to help me. He knows a ton about engines but he doesnt know much about these engines so I dont know if the two of us will be able to do the install. Is there a write up on the install? I am stressing about this and how complicated it all sounds. The part that worries me most is removing the timing belt and realigning the cam gears and all of that. I have no clue about any of that. I feel as though I am just going to end up having the shop install them and thats not what i want to do I want'ed this to be like something my dad and I could do as a summer project but I don't know anymore. Any help is appreciated. Thanks everyone.

 

[jacobevan611]

Oh one more thing... What are cam caps? I'm new to all this stuff so thanks to everyone who is being patient with me.

 

[Fotowntalon]

if your dad knows how to replace timing belts and install cams on muscle cars, it shouldnt be that much different from doing it from car to car. The hardest part i had was removing the harmonic balancer, you need a specific crysler pulley for it, a general one wouldnt work right.

If you have a haynes repair manual, then take it to your dad and and show him the lay out and ask him if he would feel confident helping you. It is DOHC so that does make everything a lil easier.

the installation is basically removing a motor mount, wheel, splash gaurd to make sure u can jack up/down the enging to reach everything. Removing the PS/AC and alternator belts, so you can take off the harmonic balancer. From their you should be able to remove the outer timing belt cover. Align your timing marks and got to TDC (aka basic timing procedure) then take off your belt. Somewhere in here you remove ## cam gears.. cant remember exactly when, think you have a little bit of free play for when. We actually had to take one gear off after the cam was outa the car. Remove your spark plug wires/coil pack/ and then valve cover. From their you can see your cams. Remove the bolts holding them in (carefully and in the right order) then remove the cams. Reinstall the new cams to the cam gears. And install in it all back.

Granted this was all very general, and i just woke up and have only did this once, so theire is a chance I missed a step, but that big paragraph should give you a rough idea of what your looking at. I hope your dad can help you, cars are to exppensive to upgrade if you are paying shops all the time. Not to mention the experiance in doing this is invaluable. Best of luck.

 

[Fotowntalon]

i beelive cam caps are the things that hold the cams in place, they are small and i think all but 1 or 2 have 2 bolts. They should be removed in a specific order, and torqued down in the specific order. All that info should be in the haynes manual. Careful torquing those down, i reccomend using the torue wrench that doesnt use clicks. The clicking torque wrenches have been known to break those damn bolts when torquing for some odd reason. I know i broke 2 with the clicking torque wrench... was not fun in the least bit.

 

[jacobevan611]

Thanks fotowntalon. You have been an extreme amount of help. I need to earn some money so I can buy the cams and then i'll get my dad to help me with the install. Hopefully everything goes okay. Thanks agian to everyone who has helped me.

 

[Diamondrev]

a few photos of your project would be nice. it would also be beneficial for future dsmers looking to do something like this...

 

[barza21]

i beelive cam caps are the things that hold the cams in place, they are small and i think all but 1 or 2 have 2 bolts. They should be removed in a specific order, and torqued down in the specific order. All that info should be in the haynes manual. Careful torquing those down, i reccomend using the torue wrench that doesnt use clicks. The clicking torque wrenches have been known to break those damn bolts when torquing for some odd reason. I know i broke 2 with the clicking torque wrench... was not fun in the least bit.

Read the torque specs very carefully when it comes to the cam caps. The measurement for them are in lbs/in NOT lbs/ft. It is a very common mistake that is made when torquing these caps down.