what's the most limiting in flow/HP?

[LBCportagee]

I'd like some help narrowing down some of the limiting stock components in my future setup. I'm trying to follow the upgrade path but funds are limited and I'm trying to not have to pull the engine multiple times. My plans are to use the 2g stock block, head and transmission until I can save up enough later down the road to deal with this (or until it breaks and I have no choice). Will have Stock 2g intake, 1g TB, stock exhaust mani and 02 housing (everything ported where I can). Upgrades will be big intercooler, HX35 and BEP bolt on housing. I plan to run E85 (so injectors, pump, reg etc.). Want to run speed density with v3 link and unsure on wideband yet. Custom Downpipe and 3" exhaust. New clutch/fly.

Assuming with that settup I should be around/under 400hp (not pushing boost due to stock bottom end). I'm going to do the basic maintenance as well (change the water and oil pump, belts, tensioner etc.) while I have the engine out.

Is something in this setup unbalanced so far? what would be the next step? replace one of those stock parts? I was thinking the next step would be to replace the cam (S3) and valves. Would I be pushing things to much?

 

[TSicktalon]

If everything is in decent shape, 400 on a stock head, block and tranny isn't outrageous. But I would not expect it to be DD reliable either. It will GREATLY depend on the quality of your tune. A hx35 is not ideal for your current motor, but I'm assuming you want to go ahead and get the turbo you are going to run for higher hp later on.

Just make sure you go huge on the fuel setup to run e85. even at 400, its gonna be thirsty.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Have you read the threads on 400 hp and goals, that's a great place to begin looking for some ideas.

 

[LBCportagee]

If everything is in decent shape, 400 on a stock head, block and tranny isn't outrageous. But I would not expect it to be DD reliable either. It will GREATLY depend on the quality of your tune. A hx35 is not ideal for your current motor, but I'm assuming you want to go ahead and get the turbo you are going to run for higher hp later on.

Just make sure you go huge on the fuel setup to run e85. even at 400, its gonna be thirsty.

Was looking at this for fuel The MAP 600whp Fuel System (E85 Gas) - Modern Automotive Performance


I might have it tuned at RRE. Later on down the road maybe a stage 2 (maybe 2.3) block and head. I'm not going to build it myself.

Any suggestions on what needs to be changed first? the bottom end?

Have you read the threads on 400 hp and goals, that's a great place to begin looking for some ideas.

I been reading for a while and kindof how I've gotten to where I'm at. I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking something in particular. Like this setup is boost creap waiting to happen because of XXX, upgrade YYY. just asking!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Have you looked on what others have done there are so many stages and things to do pick one area and work on it, engine parts, tuning fuel, gotta start somewhere depends on where you want to start spending money, and why, a lot of factors, goals, look at the vendors for prices and parts, make a list or even a cart as to what you want to purchase.

 

[boostback]

Its a very good idea to have a wideband with the speed density set-up. Also for speed density you will need a 3bar map sensor and an IAT sensor.

 

[LBCportagee]

Its a very good idea to have a wideband with the speed density set-up. Also for speed density you will need a 3bar map sensor and an IAT sensor.

Thanks...sorry my post wasn't clear. I planned on wideband, I just haven't done enough research to know which one yet. Still also research on the 3 vs 5 bar and IAT. Tons to figure out...I know most will just play out as I'm doing the build. This stuff really starts to add up though. Once you get in the higher RPM area's its hard to know what to work on next, without a big check to knock out everything at once.

My other alternative is to start with the built block and head and less bolt ons. Everybody swears how much the stock engine can handle though so I decided to not go that way...plus who want a strong engine with no HP.

 

[WES_393]

If I'm not mistaken, the 7-bolt stock block record was set with stock intake manifold and throttle body. Regardless, they don't hold you back as much as some like to believe.

Same goes for the valves. The stock valves are more than enough for your goals. A set of cams would be wise though. And without upgraded springs I wouldn't rev much higher than 7500 or so.

For the wideband, Innovate hands down. AEM's wideband doesn't play well with Link. For Speed Density I would suggest the SD bundle from ECM Tuning. ECMTuning, Inc.

What wastegate setup are you going to use with the BEP housing? If you go internally gated, I would at least get an SS o2 housing from eBay.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

You want a WB, preferably logged, on ANY setup.

 

[boostback]

3 bar is good to like 28psi anything over that i'd go with the 5 bar map sensor.

 

[WES_393]

3 bar is good to like 28psi anything over that i'd go with the 5 bar map sensor.

3 bar=43.5psi

 

[boostback]

Really i didnt realize that. Mine starts messing up around 28psi thats why i said that maybe its time for me to invest in a new map sensor.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Absolute pressure guys, 1 Bar to account for atmosphere, so at STP conditions (~14.7PSIa) you would have the ability to measure 28psi boost.

 

[99gst_racer]

3 bar=43.5psi

This is true, but you can't read 43.5 psi boost with it. After accounting for atmospheric pressure (at sea level), 1 BAR is for naturally aspirated engines, 2 BAR will handle up to 14.5 psi of boost, 3 BAR will handle up to 29.0 psi of boost, etc...

 

[kanusky1990]

3 bar=43.5psi

That is absolute pressure, it doesn't account for the atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi) so the maximum boost pressure reading is only about 29 psi of boost (43 psi-14 psi).

GM MAP sensor identification information 1 bar 2 bar 3 bar

That's why if you want to run 30+ psi you need a 4 bar MAP sensor.

dang, you guys beat me...

 

[WES_393]

Well shit, let's not all jump on me at once.

Either way, the MAP sensor I linked is 4-BAR and will bolt in place of the stock MDP sensor.

 

[Boostdriven]

If you get omni 4 bar then you won't need to use a buffer circuit to get it to log properly.
Read through this site, it will give you a good idea of what you will need for SD.
sd101 [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[boostback]

ok so i guess im in need of a new map sensor.

 

[Boostdriven]

ok so i guess im in need of a new map sensor.

No, you can use the 3 bar by going with one of the options on here.
2gbaroinputworkaround [ECMTuning - wiki]

Nevermind, just saw that you have a 1g, that is for 2g's

 

[LBCportagee]

Thanks for all the great info. Why would you go with a lower bar when the cost difference is negligible?

What wastegate setup are you going to use with the BEP housing? If you go internally gated, I would at least get an SS o2 housing from eBay.

I'm considering fabing a custom o2 and DP (and maybe going with tial mvr 44mm). I would just eliminate the o2 housing but not sure how (ideally) with stock exhaust mani. Still looking into all this.

 

[AWDtalontsi96]

a stock 2g 7 bolt wont hold 400whp. how many miles on it. If you hit knock a couple times your going to bend a rod real quick

1g tb on 2g intake. hope your going to port the intake to match the TB. Other wise your wasting your time.

Change cam? you mean cams? S3? assuming your talking about GSC s3 cams.. That is over kill and then some. 280's with 11.7mm lift is for big turbos , a lot of boost , high rpm and built motors. Believe me I know . I run them in my talon. Idles at 1100 to 1200 rpm. afrs jump 13.9 to 15.1.

if you want a decent set of cams. kelford 272's or gsc 272's. Just run evo 8/9 springs and retainers. you can run 272s on them and rev to 7600 rpm. Ive seen them go for 100 bucks used online.

2g mani flows good , but not 400 hp worth or that stock o2 housing.

You have a 99 so you already have the flashable ecu so run with that. swap a evo 8 maf in it they can support up to 600hp. Stick with your pump gas for now. Run a set of evo 560 injectors, 255 in the tank. throw on a 20g bolt on turbo , evo III ported mani , and evo III ported o2 housing. quick tune and you can make a reliable 375whp

 

[WES_393]

You have 2 options with the bolt-on housing and stock manifold.

1. Weld a wastegate flange to the manifold, weld the BEP housing wastegate port shut.

2. Buy/fabricate an O2 housing with an external wastegate incorporated.

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a stock 2g 7 bolt wont hold 400whp. how many miles on it. If you hit knock a couple times your going to bend a rod real quick

That's the point of E85. Knock becomes an urban legend that the pump gas guys talk about.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Thanks for all the great info. Why would you go with a lower bar when the cost difference is negligible?

Sensor resolution. 5v I/O to account for 3 bar vs 5.

a stock 2g 7 bolt wont hold 400whp. how many miles on it. If you hit knock a couple times your going to bend a rod real quick

1g tb on 2g intake. hope your going to port the intake to match the TB. Other wise your wasting your time.

Change cam? you mean cams? S3? assuming your talking about GSC s3 cams.. That is over kill and then some. 280's with 11.7mm lift is for big turbos , a lot of boost , high rpm and built motors. Believe me I know . I run them in my talon. Idles at 1100 to 1200 rpm. afrs jump 13.9 to 15.1.

if you want a decent set of cams. kelford 272's or gsc 272's. Just run evo 8/9 springs and retainers. you can run 272s on them and rev to 7600 rpm. Ive seen them go for 100 bucks used online.

2g mani flows good , but not 400 hp worth or that stock o2 housing.

You have a 99 so you already have the flashable ecu so run with that. swap a evo 8 maf in it they can support up to 600hp. Stick with your pump gas for now. Run a set of evo 560 injectors, 255 in the tank. throw on a 20g bolt on turbo , evo III ported mani , and evo III ported o2 housing. quick tune and you can make a reliable 375whp

You certainly can make 400whp with a 2G manifold. I agree he needs to ditch the stock O2 housing though, he would be pushing his luckon a stock 7 bolt and that S3s are too big for his needs. But 560 injectors are to small to support 400awhp on gas let alone E85.

 

[Bmxr152]

Well ill tell you how i feel. Im currently running a hx40 8 blade with a bep bolt on housing, 272 cams, Magnus smim, built Hyundai head with oem mls gasket and arp studs. Plus all the supporting mods. I run 34psi daily with pre and post turbo Meth. Ive put 33k miles on the car and it still has the stock bottom end. Of course Ive been through clutches and one transmission but the motor is still holding strong. This is a 6 bolt out of my Gvr4 that dynoed 489hp and 414lb ft. I drive this car every day about 30 miles to and from work and enjoy it. I Belive its all in the tune. The motor will last for the most part if you have a good tune. Watch your knock, air ifuels, and egts. I have been tuning cars for a long time and i can tell you 80% engine reliability is due to the tune.

 

[LBCportagee]

Sorry I meant S2's i think. They're 274's. I also said valves and meant springs....Typing to fast. But for $100 bucks I'd consider an alternative...

Are they're any special considerations with the wideband (or any other gauge/controller) and E85? see marketing for "special" ones? Though I'm thinking about going with the Zeitronix ZT-2. or innovate.