What temperature does aluminum head warp? Ceramic coating/ 500° baking temp

[DeadlyAKrunna47]

very nice. but you didn't do the entire combustion chamber? My coaters wanted a head gasket to trace whats exposed. What about the ports, did you get those done?

 

[donniekak]

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Here is my head completed in piston coat.

There is no doubt this is playing with 0.5%-1% gains. I tell everyone thye will never be able to tell the effects of ceramic coating alone. It just one piece of the puzzle to building a a stronger, race ready motor.

What he said. Minimal gains. But, when you combine several different "tricks" that in and of themselves produce limited gains, you gain enough to get an edge in something like a spec class.

This is especially true in a displacement limited na, or compressor inducer limited turbo class.

 

[94awdcoupe]

I had an entire head ceramic coated. the coating used cures at 650 degrees. no issue with warping.

 

[screamineagle]

very nice. but you didn't do the entire combustion chamber? My coaters wanted a head gasket to trace whats exposed. What about the ports, did you get those done?

Yes, i really should have. This was one of my first heads i completed and i was worried that the edge would sit on top of the headgasket and cause sealing issues.

 

[DeadlyAKrunna47]

Here is a before and after shot of Curt Browns Head porting service.

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Just before ceramic coating!

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Combustion chambers! These guys did a great job! everything stays away from the head gasket. This is going to isolate the head from any combustion heat. Also keep the intake valve cool. Will result in a cooler intake charge.

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Now the exhaust ports! super layered with ceramic coating. looks super dark. This should keep the exhaust temps away from the head! Its suuuupppper smooth! they also got the valve guide too!

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For only $25 a port. and $25 per combustion chamber. Id do this to any head!

 

[94awdcoupe]

any hint of detonation and coating in chamber flakes off.. even under normal perfect tune it wont last 2000 miles.

 

[DeadlyAKrunna47]

These guys who do this, do it all day long for 20 years. they said they have never seen coating ware off. We're talking 2000hp dragsters.

But anyways modding is always an experiment.

 

[94awdcoupe]

if it worked it would be on production cars for many years now. name a single engine that comes with it from factory?
it works great for glory passes. it doesnt stay on long term.

 

[bastarddsm]

Lol jesus. I had some JE's that were coated and the coating was like new after 2 years of hard use, it was just covered in carbon.

OE's don't do this be cause the cost to gain ratio is to low. When you make 100,000 of something, pennies count. but then again, I wouldn't know anything about that.

 

[94awdcoupe]

neighbor ran JE coated pistons. blew the head gasket first week of use. I was there when the head was pulled. the coating was peeling off. there are threads all over the place of the same reports.

 

[DeadlyAKrunna47]

It sounds like my coasters know what they are doing.

If I ever pull the head I will post a fallow up.

 

[godschylde777]

A while back I saw this article on different coatings, and it's worth a read.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-0612-engine-coatings/

Great read. I had everything coated.

 

[godschylde777]

if it worked it would be on production cars for many years now. name a single engine that comes with it from factory?
it works great for glory passes. it doesn't stay on long term.

Man stop being a hater. The reason it is not on production cars is it is not cost effective. I coated everything that I could, and spoke to the old dude that did it. He informed me, that if done properly, there is no chance of it coming off. He has been doing this for over 25 years. These coatings were used, as the article stated, in the aerospace industry for years. It is also used in the oilfields and manufacturing industry. So again, stop being so negative.

 

[godschylde777]

Here is a before and after shot of Curt Browns Head porting service.

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Just before ceramic coating!

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Combustion chambers! These guys did a great job! everything stays away from the head gasket. This is going to isolate the head from any combustion heat. Also keep the intake valve cool. Will result in a cooler intake charge.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

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Now the exhaust ports! super layered with ceramic coating. looks super dark. This should keep the exhaust temps away from the head! Its suuuupppper smooth! they also got the valve guide too!

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For only $25 a port. and $25 per combustion chamber. Id do this to any head!

Beautiful. I also have a Curt Brown head, its a work of art.

 

[DeadlyAKrunna47]

Lolz I think people try to comfort themselves, and try to justify why they didn't do it when they were doing their builds. Its still entertaining though.

 

[ThunderChild]

its been stated before, its not like its going to "hurt", but the amount of gain you get or expect will be almost imeasurable on a street/strip motor. its not a bad idea if you have the money, but you could get the same variations in power due to weather, dyno settings or total system modifications.

not knocking, just being realistic, as others were with more in depth and informed answers than myself.

 

[dustyboner]

i have been using calico coating and their ceramic coating for cc's/ports/pistons "Can be polished to chrome like finish". Maybe your coating can be too. Your head would look sick as f*** with the cc's and ports polished.

What else are you coating on your engine? i would imagine your piston tops, right?

I have done a few turbo k-series honda motors and i always got the skirts and piston tops coated and used coated bearings. its more for protection than anything. i never even thought about getting any power gains from it.

 

[94awdcoupe]

hot rod article looked pretty thorough. 2000 dyn runs. but what I got out of it it there was 1000 dollars in coatings. that netted 8hp 6tq. pretty bad investment. not a turbo car that will see periodic detention. I have seen it peel off in a week. take it or leave it. its your money.

signed the hater who likes to be smart and direct people to intelligent modding for their dollar.

 

[dustyboner]

hot rod article looked pretty thorough. 2000 dyn runs. but what I got out of it it there was 1000 dollars in coatings. that netted 8hp 6tq. pretty bad investment. not a turbo car that will see periodic detention. I have seen it peel off in a week. take it or leave it. its your money.

signed the hater who likes to be smart and direct people to intelligent modding for their dollar.

if it peeled in a week, it may have been because the part wasn't prepped correctly. it may have been coated with a low grade product. could be other stuff too.
all i know is, i haven't had any coatings peel on me.

 

[godschylde777]

if it peeled in a week, it may have been because the part wasn't prepped correctly. it may have been coated with a low grade product. could be other stuff too.
all i know is, i haven't had any coatings peel on me.

He is being a Hating Negative Nancy. Lol.

 

[mountain_man]

DeadlyAKrunna47,

You're making the correct decision by deciding to implement a thermal barrier coating in your cylinder head. By applying an additional thermal insulator to the combustion chamber and exhaust ports, thermal energy is no longer waisted by trying to heat the head, it's preserved, increasing it's ability to burn the fuel applied.

David Vizard did some porting and thermal coating analysis work several years back on what he calls "Polyquad" style intake valve layout. The first 4-1/2 pages explain the theory, and he uses a 4G63 cylinder head on Page 5 for his analysis and then goes on to describe why a thermal coating was used on page 6.

http://www.motortecmagazine.net/article.asp?AID=1&AP=5

If anyone has any other data scientific information they'd like to contribute, it would be exceedingly more beneficial to this discussion rather than heresy and opinion.