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2G What kind of clutch?

Posted by LSM, Mar 29, 2020

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  1. LSM

    LSM Probationary Member

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    Phoenix, Arizona
    Ok guys, I need some advice here. My 2G build will be completed fairly soon but I need to figure out the rest of the driveline. I have a 97 GSX and just swapped all of the gears and forks and what not with all Evo 3 parts. I also have the DSS larger and stronger aluminum driveshaft and we are thinking the car should end up roughly somewhere between 550 and 650hp to the wheels. What would be the best twin plate clutch to get? I was looking at a Quarter Masters twin plate that also comes with a little lighter flywheel in the kit, but I'm not 100% sure about it because this car is going to be my daily or most days driver and I don't want the tranny to make a ton of noise or have crappy drivability in stop and go traffic. I think with the higher hp though, the twin disc will be better than a single. Any suggestions on a really good twin disc thats still drivable and not super noisy and annoying?! Then what about the t-case and rear diff, I know stock isn't gonna hold forever with higher hp. I'm not 100% sure if I have a 4 bolt rear diff or not and unfortunately I don't have access to the shop for a few days, but even if I do have a 4 bolt, what is a good upgrade for both the rear diff and the t-case? Last question, the carrier bearing, leave it stock or is there a better one? I tried doing a little online research on the carrier bearing but couldn't seem to find much info at all on that. Getting these last parts of the driveline figured out is the last hurdle, once I can get this figured out then it's just a matter of putting everything back together and my newest DSM will be alive!! Any help with this is greatly appreciated!
     
  2. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

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    For a street car, you want a heavier flywheel - if you got one of the clutches with a lightweight flywheel, you'd push the car off a cliff after the first week, but daily usage is going to suck with a twin disc regardless of what you do. They're loud, some barely slip, and most of them will beat the sh** out of your drivetrain. The OS Giken R2CD is probably the best clutch available right now - it's got a very high torque rating, it's well-built, as smooth as it gets for a high-torque twin thanks to the heavier flywheel and good design, has a sprung hub made of softer metal (your transmission will thank you) and pedal effort is probably close to stock, but it's still loud and can be expensive if you don't know where to look.
     
  3. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    Personally, if you want it to drive nicely, I would stick with a single disk clutch assembly. A SBC SSX pressure plate and B series full face ceramic disk kit is capable of handling your power levels, and will be the fuse to slip instead of breaking other components, while driving as close to stock as possible and being extremely street friendly with good modulation.
     

    Drag Race Build 8K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
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  4. ErikTande

    ErikTande Supporting Member

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    I'm currently breaking in my Southbend stage 3 endurance. I'm at 300 miles (doing 1000 miles before I see boost), and the pedal is amazing, I can't believe how light it is. Will this clutch really hold 600hp though? I always assumed once you start getting that high you really need a twin disc.
     

    Street Build 1K  1

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  5. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    I don't know the material off the top of my head for what you are using? SS pressure plate and TZ full kevlar disk?? I just normally do it by the pressure plate type and the friction material instead of stages because I only order custom clutches from them.
     

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    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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  6. ErikTande

    ErikTande Supporting Member

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    k05048-ss-tz is the one i have.

    This site says 450 ft/lbs holding capacity:
    https://www.lmperformance.com/10331...-stage-3-endurance-eagle-talon-20l-turbo.html
     

    Street Build 1K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

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  7. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

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    On the subject of clutches, does anyone know anything about these slave cylinders that claim to reduce pedal effort? It's not cheap, but it's a popular modification in Japan for people with twin discs, apparently 20% lighter or so, and they make a DSM/Evo123 application that has reviewed well: http://route6.co.jp/product/slc/slc.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  8. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    The SS/TZ kit I have had customers in that 400-450ft/lbs range and it worked for them. Just don't expect it to hold that power level on a hard launch on a prepped track. It will handle it on the street though, and the clutch will last a long time while having stock pedal feel. It is a great low power street clutch.
     

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    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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  9. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    Curious what they're doing with them, only thing I can think is increasing slave cylinder size, but that leads to other issues with nothing else changed.

    Id rather do what @94awdcoupe did and use an HRB, but idk if it'd fit with a twin.
     

    Street Build 617  3

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM

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  10. LSM

    LSM Probationary Member

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    I am 100% with you on leaving the drivability as nice as possible, but from what I've heard if you get a nice "street" twin disc then you can barely tell the difference. From what I've read the only major factor is relearning the clutch pedal engagement point because it's totally different, but everyone claims that once you get used to that after the first few days then it's not a problem at all. It sucks because this is one of those things where you will talk to two different people and hear two different things. First I heard that a street twin clutch will actually make the pedal slightly lighter than stock, then two minutes later I heard the opposite! Also, the other upside to the twin disc is that if I want to continue to increase the hp I can do it and not have to worry for a little while. If I decide to throw another 100-150hp in the engine then I would start to worry about the single disc being able to hold. And then, again the same thing with two different stories, I heard that a twin disc will take some of the pressure off of the tranny components because the discs take it instead with all the extra surface area, but then I had a guy tell me it puts more pressure on the components......I don't know what the hell to believe! If I can I would like to relieve some of the strain on the tranny components, for obvious reasons! Thats basically why I posted this question, so I could see what people say!
     
  11. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    I know what you mean. If it was me I would probably listen to someone that runs a twin disk & owns a performance transmission business.
    Oh look. He chimed in with his advise. What luck.
     
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  12. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    If you are not track racing your car, and you don't have any built driveline components, it is a complete waste to have a twin disk in a daily driver or frequently driven car. End of story on that. Anyone can jump in your car and drive it with most single disk clutches, maybe less if it is a puck clutch, but something like the SSX pressure plate B-series full face sprung hub ceramic disk I recommended from SBC will be so streetable that you actually enjoy driving the car regularly. Speaking from experience, as well as dealing with customers on this very subject THOUSANDS of times.... I am trying to point you in a direction that you will enjoy driving your car, instead of dealing with the negative side effects of a clutch that is much more race oriented (though I really do like the OS Giken, I just sold one to a customer with a 2G 7 bolt AWD, and it is very nice and is about 6 pounds heavier than my Quarter Master street twin I normally sell and likely smooth and streetable, but it will still have all the noise of a multi disk clutch no matter what).

    Have a clutch that acts as the fuse and slips if you overload the drivetrain if you have traction. Wheel hop and 100% traction (or launching on a track prepped surface) are going to break transmission, transfer case, rear diff and axles with a clutch that has a significantly higher torque capacity than your other components.

    As well regarding rear diff and transfer case, if you are street driving the car, you shouldn't have any issues if the parts have been serviced and are in good shape. If you intend on building the transfer case in the future, you would want to look at a 300m shaft modified gearset and then you would have to change your driveshaft slip yoke on the 3.5" shaft to match. If you only have the 3" driveshaft you would have to purchase a completely new driveshaft with upgraded yoke as well. This part will typically break when you start running bottom 10 second passes or faster AT THE TRACK, rarely on the street because you will have wheel spin. The rear diff will hold up along with the rear axles until you start doing hard launches on the track, and you will break axles first. Your highest likelihood of a part breakage would be from wheel hop or doing dumb stuff like donuts on the street which would break your outer CV cups on your front axles first.

    Start with what works while being most streetable first. No need to make it less streetable until you really want to regularly break parts on the track.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020

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  13. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

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    I apologize for thread jacking, but Tim in reference to the ssx/tz-b full face ceramic, this will likely be the clutch I run on my car next year, and if I recall on your website you mention the ceramic material needs little if any break in period. This would be great because I’d love to seat the rings on my new motor with some boost:hellyeah:
     

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  14. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    The TZ/B is a dual friction Kevlar/Ceramic disk, the B-Series is the full face sprung hub ceramic disk. The TZ/B definitely likes break-in so you don't glaze the Kevlar surface. The B series has faster break-in and usually can handle power with little mileage for break-in, but i would suggest getting a few hundred street regular shifting miles on it before starting to do launches with the car so it properly breaks in.
     

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  15. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

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    Thank you! The b series ceramic is what I meant:thumb:It sounds like one of the best options for the street for high torque and streetability:rocks:
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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  16. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

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    Fwiw, I have a ppg dogbox in my car, and I still run a single disc clutch. I have a $5k tilton carbon that sits on the shelf because I like the single better.
     

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