What Cams?

[Johnny123]

Im planning on boring my block 30. over minimum, and cutting the head .020, also porting and a 3 angle valve job. im tring to get a real good low to mid range with a decent top end. What cams would be best for what im going for? Also would this be ok if later on down the road i send my turbo off and get it ported to fit a 16g wheel in it?

 

[Freerevving]

I'm just curious, he keeps asking for an increase in low and midrange...
why is everyone recommending 272's? there is a definite loss in the low end...
seems like 264's would be the obvious answer

I'm tempted to say use stock 92-94 cams and a small 16g

 

[jlr2196]

I would have to agree with Freerevving, he's only running a stock turbo and looking to upgrade to a 16g later. Go with stock cams or 264's at the most and you will have awesome spool up and throttle response (TORQUE is KING on the street). That setup will be quicker from a 25 roll up to 100mph. Besides, stock cams will put you into the 12's with a Big 16g.

 

[whitehawk]

WOOT HKS 272/272 all the way...

 

[TOONAH]

Just a thought for you. Intake and exhaust camshafts with longer duration and lift do not necessarily yield much more horsepower. They should be Degreed. Degreeing a camshaft
also is pointless unless you can advance or retard both the intake and exhaust independently of each other. So one should use adjustable cam sprockets. There also is little point to using more lift unless your cylinder head and intake system has been modified to permit more airflow. A higher flowing exhaust will also be necessary. If the Camshaft manufacturer is unable to provide torque/rpm graphs of the cams with specific
information about the setup I would not buy them. Also you must think about valve "float"
a 282 camshaft needs stiffer springs. Stay away from dual springs unless you want to experience valve binding and trash you motor. So my last thought for you is this:
Is spending $700 on some camshafts worth 15 more horses? You would get much more HP/$ value by using water/alcohol injection.

 

[Freerevving]

I would have to agree with Freerevving, he's only running a stock turbo and looking to upgrade to a 16g later. Go with stock cams or 264's at the most and you will have awesome spool up and throttle response (TORQUE is KING on the street). That setup will be quicker from a 25 roll up to 100mph. Besides, stock cams will put you into the 12's with a Big 16g.

WOOT HKS 272/272 all the way...

if you decide on 272's I would use HKS... I've only owned HKS 264 and 272... the 272's had a kinda slow spool on my last setup, power came on pretty suddenly at around 4000.. It was either lug around ... or fly

I now have the 264's I'm trying something different... with these cams, I believe it easier to make a streetable car that will do extremely well in the quarter mile. So that's why I recommend them

And going on what others have said, all HKS are stronger and smoother in the low end than other cam manufacturers.

But do what you like... it takes experimentation to find what works best for you.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Is spending $700 on some camshafts worth 15 more horses? You would get much more HP/$ value by using water/alcohol injection.

Dyno tests will tell you switching camshafts will definitely give you anywhere between 35-160 hp gain depending on the turbo setup, what degree camshafts, and on so on.

As for a methanol kit, that should come as at last time. Going full blown meth on a stock my with definitely create disaster.

if you decide on 272's I would use HKS... I've only owned HKS 264 and 272... the 272's had a kinda slow spool on my last setup, power came on pretty suddenly at around 4000.. It was either lug around ... or fly

I now have the 264's I'm trying something different... with these cams, I believe it easier to make a streetable car that will do extremely well in the quarter mile. So that's why I recommend them

And going on what others have said, all HKS are stronger and smoother in the low end than other cam manufacturers.

But do what you like... it takes experimentation to find what works best for you.

I most certain agree. HKS 264/272 and HKS 272/272 make a huge difference. 264/272 is generally low-mid range and 272/272 mid-moderate high. I've seen lots of people with 264/272 and as big as 60-1 turbo in CA but it just base one whether you do street or track.

 

[gob4sho89]

I love my BC 272/272 combo... very streetable.... I cannot notice a loss in low end, but my mid and top end are sweet! mine hit around 3500rpm and they have a cool, even, deep idle

hope this helps

 

[jlr2196]

I think johnny123 needs to fill out his profile so we can get a better understanding of what he really has. By the sounds of his earlier posts it would seem he has a basically stock setup and stock turbo, he mentioned possibly upgrading to a 16g wheel. So if he has a stock turbo or even a 16g he is only going to make power to 6500-6800 rpm (I don't believe that would compliment 272's very well). If he doesn't have much done he will need money spent in better places.

 

[Johnny123]

Ok sorry i missed out on all of this

now im just getting more confused. i do plan on upgrading the turbo to a 16G wheel..And yes everything is stock, but when i get the machine work done i will be upgrading the parts needed to keep it in tact. And the car will be mainly street but i will take it to the track here and their..i want some good times and like said earlier torque is king and i wanna be king. haha. Does anyone know where to get graph specs off the cams and/or stock cams?

 

[DWR-DSM]

Try doing a search or contacting HKS or a company on their cams.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

do cams effect the emissions testing for smog?

 

[Johnny123]

Yeah i tried contacting buchar racing but they had no reply. I dont know what to do and i want to get this motor on the way. but i dont want to make a bad desicion and not be satisfied. thats why i started the tread. but i guess you have to experiment to really learn huh?

 

[DWR-DSM]

I dont believe your cams will have an effect on your emission test and you best call a company monday morning and get some more advice. You want numbers and direct specs on those cams.

I tried 2 do a quick research for cams specs but I didn't come across any, you can try yourself and you might be able to find something. Im in Iraq right now so my internet isnt that quick. I try to find something for you b4 monday since I have some days off

 

[1gDSM4g63]

now im just getting more confused. i do plan on upgrading the turbo to a 16G wheel..And yes everything is stock, but when i get the machine work done i will be upgrading the parts needed to keep it in tact. And the car will be mainly street but i will take it to the track here and their..i want some good times and like said earlier torque is king and i wanna be king. haha. Does anyone know where to get graph specs off the cams and/or stock cams?

Lots of people will argue that upgrading cams isn't a good idea or even upgrading to a 16g if your car is completely stock.

The first step is intake/exhaust, turbo, FMIC, fuel system, and them engine upgrades. Check out the Tech Guide: 1G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners and decide what stage you're focusing on.

Does anyone know where to get graph specs off the cams and/or stock cams?

You have to do research to find the specs and if you're talking about performance-wise, it varies hugely with each car's setup and turbo.

 

[DWR-DSM]

Johnny can you put a list up in your profile for we can get a better view of what you are working with?

HKS USA Camshafts (more)

HKS high performance camshafts are CAD designed to optimize torque and horsepower over the widest possible power band. Each camshaft application is offered in multiple profiles, each with their own lift & duration characteristics to suit various levels of tuning. Lower profiles offer substantial gains in power and a broad useable power band with little compromise in drivability. Higher profiles offer greater increases in power, but are tailored for the higher RPM range and racing applications.

HKS camshafts are not reground OEM units; they are machined from new billet cores which are constructed from a high nickel content iron alloy. By manufacturing all camshafts from billet cores, HKS is able to produce camshafts that equal or exceed the quality of the OEM units they are designed to replace. HKS camshafts are direct replacements and are designed to be compatible with the factory valve train components. However, due to the higher profile of HKS camshafts, HKS high performance valve springs are highly recommended, and required in certain applications.

 

[delta448]

I say FP 1x cams, unless you aren't going to upgrade springs, then go with FP 1s. For the difference in price between the expensive HKS and reasonable FPs, you can afford to get the FP 1x and some BC valve springs. Extreme Psi

You should select the cam with some thought put into the rpm range the turbo and engine will be utilizing. Overcamming your turbo choice is going to give less area under the curve than selecting the appropriate smaller cam, it will kill the low end, and will make a too small turbo run out of steam even quicker. I say don't get any larger than 264/272 for a 14b or 16G, and I'd personally recommend getting a 264/264 variant at least until you actually get that 16G or something larger yet.

 

[Johnny123]

I say FP 1x cams, unless you aren't going to upgrade springs, then go with FP 1s. For the difference in price between the expensive HKS and reasonable FPs, you can afford to get the FP 1x and some BC valve springs.

You should select the cam with some thought put into the rpm range the turbo and engine will be utilizing. Overcamming your turbo choice is going to give less area under the curve than selecting the appropriate smaller cam, it will kill the low end, and will make a too small turbo run out of steam even quicker. I say don't get any larger than 264/272 for a 14b or 16G, and I'd personally recommend getting a 264/264 variant at least until you actually get that 16G or something larger yet.

I can see what your saying. but i dont have money to put out for two different exhaust cams..i beleive the 264/272 might be the route or i might just stick with the stock cams. Im reading up on some more info and you guys are helping out alot i appreciate it

 

[DWR-DSM]

Cam Specs - Hard numbers, really!(sticky, no replys) - evolutionm.net

Before deciding on a set of Piper Rally cams, I did quite a bit of digging into camsaft specs. Here's a quick summary of the hard numbers I pulled together:

Factory EVO
Advertised Duration - 260 deg Int / 256 deg Exh
Effective Duration - ___ deg @ 1mm Int / ___ deg @1mm Exh
Lift - 10.0mm Int / 9.5mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 109 deg Int /111 deg Exh
LSA - 110 deg
Stock valve springs OK

JDM EVO MR
Advertised Duration - 260 deg Int / 256 deg Exh
Effective Duration - ___ deg @ 1mm Int / ___ deg @1mm Exh
Lift - 10.0mm Int / 9.5mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 113 deg Int /112 deg Exh
LSA - 112.5 deg
Stock valve springs OK


Comp Cams 264+
Advertised Duration - 248 deg Int / 248 deg Exh
Effective Duration - ___ deg @ 1mm Int / ___ deg @1mm Exh
Lift - 10.8mm Int / 10.2mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 104 deg Int / 112 deg Exh
LSA - 108 deg
Upgraded valve springs recommended

Comp Cams 272+
Advertised Duration - 256 deg Int / 257 deg Exh
Effective Duration - ___ deg @ 1mm Int / ___ deg @1mm Exh
Lift - 10.8mm Int / 10.2mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 104 deg Int / 112 deg Exh
LSA - 108 deg
Upgraded valve springs recommended

Comp Cams 280+
Advertised Duration - 264 deg Int / 265 deg Exh
Effective Duration - ___ deg @ 1mm Int / ___ deg @1mm Exh
Lift - 11.0mm Int / 10.4mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 104 deg Int / 112 deg Exh
LSA - 108 deg
Upgraded valve springs recommended


GSC 264
Advertised Duration - 268 deg
Effective Duration - 194 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.6mm Int / 10.0mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - ___ deg Int / ___ deg Exh
LSA - ___ deg
Stock valve springs OK

GSC 272
Advertised Duration - 281 deg
Effective Duration - 203 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.6mm Int / 10.0mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - ___ deg Int / ___ deg Exh
LSA - ___ deg
Stock valve springs OK


HKS 264
Advertised Duration - 264 deg
Effective Duration - 206 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.8mm Int / 10.2mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 110 deg Exh
LSA - 110 deg
Stock valve springs OK

HKS 272
Advertised Duration - 272 deg
Effective Duration - 214 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.8mm Int / 10.2mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 110 deg Exh
LSA - 110 deg
Stock valve springs OK

HKS 280
Advertised Duration - 280 deg
Effective Duration - 222 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.8mm Int / 10.2mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 110 deg Exh
LSA - 110 deg
Stock valve springs OK


JUN 264
Advertised Duration - 264 deg
Effective Duration - ___ deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.5mm
Lobe Centerlines - ___ deg Int / ___ deg Exh
LSA - ___ deg
Upgraded valve springs required

JUN 272
Advertised Duration - 272 deg
Effective Duration - 235 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.8mm
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 115 deg Exh
LSA - 112.5 deg
Upgraded valve springs required


Piper Ultimate Road
Advertised Duration - 265 deg
Effective Duration - 217 deg @1mm Int / 211 deg @1mm Exh
Lift - 11.5mm Int / 10.8mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 108 deg Int / 107 deg Exh
LSA - 107.5
Upgraded valve springs required

Piper Rally
Advertised Duration - 265 deg
Effective Duration - 217 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 11.5mm
Lobe Centerlines - 108 deg Int / 107 deg Exh
LSA - 107.5
Upgraded valve springs required

Piper Race
Advertised Duration - 272 deg
Effective Duration - 224 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 12.0mm
Lobe Centerlines - 106 deg
LSA - 106 deg
Upgraded valve springs required


Revolver 262/264
Advertised Duration - 262 deg Int / 264 deg Exh
Effective Duration - 222 deg @ 1mm Int / 223 deg @ 1mm Exh
Lift - 11.4mm Int / 11.5mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 109 deg Int / 111 deg Exh
LSA - 110 deg
Upgraded valve springs required


Tomei Poncam
Advertised Duration - 260 deg
Effective Duration - ___ deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.7mm Int / 10.2mm Int
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 115 deg Exh
LSA - 112.5 deg
Stock valve springs OK

Tomei Procam
Advertised Duration - 280 deg
Effective Duration - ___ deg @ 1mm
Lift - 11.5mm Int / 11.5mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 115 deg Exh
LSA - 112.5 deg
Upgraded valve springs required

 

[Johnny123]

Thank you! From what i see the 264 and 272 arnt quite so diff.

 

[DWR-DSM]

Of course the degrees are different but the durations isn't that far from eachother

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Don't base the cam specs that info that DWR-DSM post. Evo and DSM cam specs are a big difference.

 

[1stGenTSi]

WOW never seen such bad advise! He wants MORE low end power! Do not get 272/272 if you want more low end. And don't buy based on what the idle is gonna sound like. Stay stock or get 264/264. Theres no reason to go spending $$$ on cams yet, especially if you want more low end. And as far as running a compression test to find compression ratio, no, that doesn't work.

 

[DWR-DSM]

Either way if he does or doesn't, I'm sure monday morning he will contact HKS or another company who produces performance camshafts for some insight on them. Im just sending him links to get an idea, not to run and jump head first into getting any of them right away until he is sure it will best fit what he is looking for.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Cam Specs - Hard numbers, really!(sticky, no replys) - evolutionm.net

Before deciding on a set of Piper Rally cams, I did quite a bit of digging into camsaft specs.

Evo cam specs are totally different than DSMs even though the engines are similar and Piper, Revolver, Tomei, and Jun don't manufacturer DSM cams.

 

[Freerevving]

WOW never seen such bad advise! He wants MORE low end power! Do not get 272/272 if you want more low end. And don't buy based on what the idle is gonna sound like. Stay stock or get 264/264.

+1

The duration is a lot longer on the 272's.... means it works efficiently at higher rpm's

...get the same lift with higher air velocity (and lower emissions) at lower rpm with 264's

You'll have more torque with stock