Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[90-GST]

i actually have a fully rebuilt 7 bolt with about 2,500 miles on it so i really dont think its the crankwalk issue, especially because i had just replaced the crankshaft about 100 miles ago because the flywheel bolts were loose, destroyed my clutch and then the bolts snapped off inside the crankshaft, so i already doubt it is crankwalk. It doesnt have any problem shifting when the clutch feels fine even if i take a hard right turn and i do not notice any lose of power. i think i might have to bleed it some more considering i have a full new clutch line and maybe i didnt bleed it enough....

well today i bled the clutch some more and some air did come out of the line. I drove it around for probably 100 miles or so and no problems yet. The clutch pedal also feels a bit stiffer but it feels perfect.

this sounds like the same problem im having. i had my fidanza 4.3 with resurfaced stock flywheel installed tuesday, and by friday, at 260 miles on the new clutch, it wouldnt go into gear again. after it warms up, the clutch pedal gets a little stiffer at the top of the pedal, and it wont go into gear. before it warms up, it shifts and drives fine. im hoping it isnt crankwalk, but im not sure. im going to try bleeding the system again tomorrow, but idk.


does anyone else have any ideas why it would go into gear fine when cold, but when warmed up, the top of the pedal feels stiff, and it wont go into gear at all. when i try to shove it in, the rpm's drop a little. i dont push too hard though, because i dont want to mess anything up. any ideas?

 

[treytre]

I'm having a problem with my clutch well not really my clutch but possibly my transmission, seems like the clutch isnt disengaging all the way, just put motor in with new clutch exsiting transmission, had to replace the slave cylinder, and master cylinder, to even get any pedal from the clutch. Sometimes the car goes in gear fine and other you have to put force behind it to get it into gear any help would be appreciated TYI...

 

[darkiller_666]

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Any ideas?

 

[90-GST]

so my car will go in gear fine if im driving it and what not, but if i let it sit at idle for a long time, it wont go in gear. but then if i push the clutch to the floor, and let it fling back up, it works fine again. anyone have any clue what that would mean?

 

[90-GST]

so my car will go in gear fine if im driving it and what not, but if i let it sit at idle for a long time, it wont go in gear. but then if i push the clutch to the floor, and let it fling back up, it works fine again. anyone have any clue what that would mean?

anyone?

 

[miker19]

ok heres the problem i just got my 91 awd talon a week ago and im trying to fix the small problems but here is kind of a big one my clutch will not fully ingage unless the pedal is like on the floor? the pedal is preatty hard to push down? i tryied to adjust the rod and its on its last few threads. the guy i got it from replaced the master cylinder and clutch its a act 2600 and light weight flywheel. got any ideas. i was going to make sure he blead the system but thats all i got.

 

[viperlp01]

ok back the master rod all the way out... Your over extending the whole sytem and this can result in some biggg problems...( I am feeling the ill effects of over extending right now) So once you back it all the way out start all over with readjusting the master. There is a pressure release valve thing in there that if you adjust the rod to far out it will not have a chance to bleed of the access resulting in the next push to not have full potentail... Go on youtube and watch jacks transmissions master cyl adjust...

 

[misphit]

^^ Good info

 

[miker19]

ok back the master rod all the way out... Your over extending the whole sytem and this can result in some biggg problems...( I am feeling the ill effects of over extending right now) So once you back it all the way out start all over with readjusting the master. There is a pressure release valve thing in there that if you adjust the rod to far out it will not have a chance to bleed of the access resulting in the next push to not have full potentail... Go on youtube and watch jacks transmissions master cyl adjust...

do you have a link?

 

[gstryyder]

scroll to the bottom of this page bud. hope this helps.

RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info

 

[miker19]

didnt really help i already adjusted the rod all the way back out

 

[gstryyder]

you shouldn't have it adjusted all the way back out. b4 you start anything... turn that master cylinder rod back in. it should never be adjusted all the way out. the rod should be easy to turn by hand. if it is not. it is adjusted too far out. turning it too far out will make it not disengage. possibly even slip, and will make the pedal hard to push. it will not solve your problems.

did you read the whole entire bottom half of the page even after the adjustment part? there are more hidden problems than just adjusting a master cylinder. read from the adjust part all the way down to the bottom read to the bottom of the page. then go see how that clutch fork in the bell housing is positioned and get back to me... may be other stuff. but we can start eliminating the easy problems. also, if you can take out the slave cylinder rod and measure it that might help a bit 2 see if you already have an extended slave cylinder rod... but do that after you check out that page do what i said with your car and get back to me.

 

[miker19]

ok well first i adjusted the rod all the way out tward the fire wall now i put it all the way back in twards the back of the car. im going to try to bleed out the master cylinder and the slave cylinder first then ill start down the list of other objects.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

My guess is that the person that installed the clutch didn't properly shim the clutch pivot ball. Look here for information about How, When, Why to shim clutch pivot ball: TRE TECH TIPS

 

[miker19]

ok and also when i adjusted the rod back in tward the back of the car the pedal was easier to push in?

 

[iwillnotbleed]

I just went through a lot of these clutch problems and got them fixed today actually.
First, go to www.jackstransmissions.com and watch the "proper clutch adustment" video they have. Make sure you're adjusting your clutch master rod correctly.
Check your cutch master and see if it's leaking. If not Check your slave cylinder and make sure it's not either. If one of those is bad, replace it.
I tried a slave cylinder extension rod and had no luck either. By the way, DO NOT get an extension rod, it works for a bit but in the end you find that you should not need one if everything is adjusted properly.
I also bought a stainless steel clutch line off of Extreme PSI to make sure my hydraulic fluid had good preesure. That helped a bit but wasn't the problem.

I hope that helps you but if not, say something and I'll shorten the long road that I just went down.

 

[miker19]

well my slave cylinder and master cylinder are brand new and not leaking

 

[iwillnotbleed]

Before you have to spend more money, chech for leaks and bleed the system. I went and got a pressure bleeder (you hook it up to an air hose). That bleeder works wonders. Remember that if you bleed with a pressure bleeder to depress the clutch pedal a little bit and then return it a couple times. Do that when the pressure bleeder is bleeding your system. Gets more air out of your system.
If bleeding the hell out of your system doesn't help at all or much, I hate to say it but it sounds like the pedal assembly. Use your hands for this. The way you tell is by pushing you clutch pedal down (with the system bled of caorse) and letting it return to its normal position. Then pull it towards the drivers seat. If your pedal is able to move towards the seat, which seems to be somewhere around an inch for most people, Your problem is the 1G DSM Clutch Pedal Lever Joint . I went a step further and figured while I was down there I would also replace the Clutch Pedal & Shaft Assembly 1G . These two item are at Mitsubishi Turbo Performance Parts from Mach V Motorsports.This usually fixes the problem because the lever joint gets worn down at the end of the shaft where the two connect (bolt together). In my case I still had unwanted play or "slop" in that same area. In the end I sent my assembly to sheptrans (Sheptrans.com) and had the bushings replaced with brass bushings and also it was welded. I didn't want my assembly to have any slop at all. Got it back and it works as well as I hoped. Car goes in gear now. Doesn't even grind. If you're a welder, you can weld your own assembly but be sure to get the brass bearings for the assembly. The bushings are so you don't have to weld around and worry about melting the plastic bushings. You'll be able to get a better and stronger weld.
Still, Double check everything before going this far to be sure nothing else is the problem.
Hope this helps.

 

[NExStreetRacer]

Sounds like a problem I had. I did a clutch job with a new pivot joint, kept my clutch fork. Turns out I had to readjust the push rod behind the clutch petal under the dash. Clutch pedal felt soft, and I couldn't shift into any gears. It's worth checking into IMO.

well I know I bleed it perfect its it wont go into 1st at all the rpms will just start to drop and thats it grinds in 2nd and reverse those where the only gears i tried it been siting sence then....

 

[jm1080]

Thanks for replies, well I just looked at the old master cylinder and as I'm looking at it, I tried to imagine how to bleed it. Now I see that I can add the fluid in the reservoir, then I can push the rod in as if it were going to bleed, BUT there is no bleeder screw or whatever. So where would it come out from? That is what I'm trying to figure out before I install new one, not quite sure how you would bleed just the master cylinder by itself. Maybe someone has pics? Maybe I'm just confused, have to re look at it in the morning.

 

[cmaher]

its definitely bad or defective cause there is no where else in that area for clutch fluid to come from

and no you don't have TO BENCH BLEED IT...I've replaced 2 in some old cars i had and never bench bleed and always worked great for me

 

[jeremys14]

if all else fails, as someone else mentioned, get the 90 clutch cable and the new bracket as well. I ran into this problem.

 

[Defiant]

No, you don't bench bleed a DSM clutch master.

Don't listen to what Chevy people say. That crap only applies to Chevys, and other GM shit, which needs goofy special treatment because it's shit. Guess why they're going tits-up.

You might want to pull apart your bum master and see if it has a cut or nicked cup, scratch in the bore, dirt or other reason to have leaked.

 

[HighFlowDSM]

You said you put a new master cylinder in it did you make sure you adjusted it right? if you didnt then there is a nut thats on the rod try moving it out some....i had the same problem with one of my DSM before.

 

[jm1080]

Oh ok, thank you for clarifying! Will make this thread resolved now