V6 into DSMs [merged 12-17-06]

[DSMSpyder99]

Originally posted by bclipse96
yeah i am sure a 200 horsepower engine in a 2nd generation eclipse would be a waste of time. I am so sick of you people hating on the 3rd generation eclipse. I have one and I have a second gen and I like both of them. When I get finished with my "slow" 3rd gen I think it will be mighty impressive and I will let you guys see some numbers first in the hopes that it may shut some of your mouths.

Doesnt the fastest 3rd Gen run 11's and im not talking about the tube chassis and are RWD. Now lets see the fastest DSM runs 8 with stock chassis and AWD and 9's for FWD w/ stock chassis

 

[bluesnow]

That drag 3rd gen eclipse in modified with the twin turbo is pretty fast. I think it would be cool to swap in a 4g63t in 3rd gen. technically you can make anything fast if you put enough money into it even a pinto.

 

[Initial DSM]

R.I.P.P. Superchargers makes superchargers for the V6 and
www.ddynopower.com makes turbo kits for the V6 3rd gen eclipse at 5psi (259hp), as well as upgraded internals, cams and cam gears for the engine to support 400hp at 15psi.

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[1stGENracer]

Originally posted by bclipse96
When I get finished with my "slow" 3rd gen I think it will be mighty impressive and I will let you guys see some numbers first in the hopes that it may shut some of your mouths.

how many times have I heard this line? :thumbdown

 

[InfamousEclipse]

I did see a show car on ebay that had either a 3rd gen v6 (pretty sure) maybe it was a 3kGT... I will see if I saved the pic when I get home

 

[E-CLIPS97]

Originally posted by Initial DSM
R.I.P.P. Superchargers makes superchargers for the V6 and
www.ddynopower.com makes turbo kits for the V6 3rd gen eclipse at 5psi (259hp), as well as upgraded internals, cams and cam gears for the engine to support 400hp at 15psi.

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Arent those engines SOHC so it would be just cam and cam gear:laugh:

 

[Initial DSM]

Originally posted by E-CLIPS97
Arent those engines SOHC so it would be just cam and cam gear:laugh:

Yes sir youre correct. But alas , so is a conquest engine, but with proper tuning , it doesnt really matter i guess, you can sqeeze out enough power out of any engine if built correctly with the right mods.

Heres the thing: A 3000GT dohc 3L V6 engine will NOT fit into any 2g eclipse or 3g Eclipse or Avenger/ Sebring. There clearly is just NOT enough room by the firewall to fit the extra space the additional cam and cam gear allows. So it hasnt been done. A DOHC 3G V6 engine (found in the Sl's VR-4's and Stealths) were 225hp, so even if you could sqeeze it in there the $ cost to hp ratio wouldnt be worth it. This is why the 4 cylinder versions have always been better to mod, as they have more potential to be more powerful (and more engine bay room to support mods). Even the Hyundai Tiberon guys turbo mod the 4 cylinder versions more than the V6 versions.

The turbo kit I showed above uses a TD06 H-Series Turbo capable of holding up to 22psi. The internals they sell also have been able to hold more than 400whp.

 

[Doug99RS]

Originally posted by E-CLIPS97
Arent those engines SOHC so it would be just cam and cam gear:laugh:

Actual Initial was right. You will need multiple cams and cam gears because it has two cams. One per cylinder head. It is still an OHC design it just uses one cam on top of each head.
Thanks for the info on the turbo and supercharger.
Doug

Also, there's three different 3.0L engines from Mitsubishi. One is the nearly identical set-up as the 2.5L found in the 3g's. The earlier one was the 3.0L found in the chrysler Minivans and then there is the third that is found in the 3000's. I don't know any of the engine codes but I know that there are differences in intake designs as well as engine layout.

 

[eclipsed95]

Originally posted by bclipse96
yeah i am sure a 200 horsepower engine in a 2nd generation eclipse would be a waste of time. I am so sick of you people hating on the 3rd generation eclipse. I have one and I have a second gen and I like both of them. When I get finished with my "slow" 3rd gen I think it will be mighty impressive and I will let you guys see some numbers first in the hopes that it may shut some of your mouths.

You need to relax a little. I sold 3G's new, so I know they have potential. But the subject is, why would you put a V6 in a 2G? They either have a 4cyl Turbo with as more power, or a NA with less power but with a million turbo kits available to make it 200 plus HP, for a lot less money and headache. Just my thoughts, relax, no one was attacking you

 

[E-CLIPS97]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
Actual Initial was right. You will need multiple cams and cam gears because it has two cams. One per cylinder head. It is still an OHC design it just uses one cam on top of each head.
Thanks for the info on the turbo and supercharger.
Doug

So wait let me get this straight. From what your saying, it has 2 heads

edit: I think i found the answer to my question, but please clarify. Inline 6 would be one cam and cam gear, and V6 has one on each side?

 

[Initial DSM]

Eh, the only reason I would see anyone ever wanting to do this would be if they wanted to put in a BUILT sohc V6 with high compression to make keep it NA, since stock its rated at 200hp. Other than that, its a waste of time and money to go through that amount of work to build a turboed 2G with a V6 engine. As I stated in another thread, the DOHC V6 engine from the 3000GT's wont fit into a 2G; not enough firewall clearance due to the extra cam gear/cam.

 

[riceburner]

in my opinion i would not put in the v6 in one its basically untunable for major power and a crappy motor second all the extra weight would throw off your weight distribution off also because of the added weight last it seems to me i may be wrong but wouldnt the crossmember be in the way for the exhaust of the v6 since it comes down on both sides of the motor im not sure how the headers are shaped put just a thought

 

[Initial DSM]

Well in a similiar post like this, I and another member found 2 different pictures of it already been done, so I'm assuming the clearance wasnt too much of an issue. Now seeing how Sebrings/Avengers are similiar cars to the eclipse/talons, albiet their longer frame, I'm not sure if the weight difference would actually effect it that much. Nothing a few solid motor mounts and bushings couldnt help. As I stated in the other thread however, I personally wouldnt try this unless I was planning on staying all motor with it being well tuned and rebuilt with forged internals, forged crank, ported head and other upgrades (and I got a good deal on the engine). Although 400whp at 15psi is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Doug99RS]

The 2.5L/3.0L that I'm referring to will fit because it fits in the 1g Sebring Coupes which is a 2g eclipse chassis and all.

It depends on the engine design. Some v6's like Chrysler's 3.3 and 3.8L have cam in block design. Meaning it has one cam with 12 cam lobes (6 intake and 6 exhaust) that use push rods and rocker arms. The Mitsubishi 2.5L/3.0L (both v6's) that are timing belt driven use one cam PER head. Each cam has 9 lobes on it I beleive. One rocker arm for each intake valve and one rocker arm for two exhaust valves. That adds up to three lobes per cylinder. I've got a diagram but am having problems copying it.

As for the weight distribution, it's still got two aluminum heads on it. There's still a little weight gain from that but the bottom end is not significantly heavier. It's rated somewhere around 215 hp from the factory which is equivalent to your bone stock 4g63. As initialdsm pointed out there is aftermarket support for these engines.

With the dependability of the 2.5L and 3.0L I will say that it has it's share of oil leaks but nothing as wide spread as the 2gnt headgasket problem. The occasional $1,000.00 distributor goes out at 100,000 miles but things give out and 100,000 miles definitely is alot of wear and tear. The only engines I've had to do serious repairs on were the ones where the customer did not properly maintain them and allowed coolant leaks to persist. This lead to coolant loss, over-heating and head warpage. But a few cases of neglect does not constitute a failure on the manufacturer's part.
Doug

 

[Doug99RS]

The Jeep 4.0L In-line six on the other hand has a cam in block design, a single cam, and only 2 lobes on the cam per cylinder. The Supra in-line six has one head and two cams in it. It's orientation I'm less familiar with but there's obviously quite a few variations out there now and honestly, it's for the better. More ideas means things are improving.
D

 

[Doug99RS]

Alright, sorry for three posts in a row, I'm normally not this much of a whore. But here is what I'm referring to with 2.5L and 3.0L Mitsu engine design for v6's.

The smallest part on the bottom indicates a roller/rocker assembly of sorts. The red is the lifter which is integrated with the rocker arm. The brownish coller is simply the arm. The yellow is a whole where it pivots on a shaft. The silver part indicates a roller which rides on the cam lobes. The top most section shows a top view of two intake rockers which ride on one cam lobe each. The bottom part is the exhaust valve rocker. It rides on the center lobe and opens and closes two valves at once using just the one arm.

This entire assembly will sit on the top of the cylinder head. The black area on the far left indicates a camshaft gear. The black section in the middle simply shows a bearing surface or a camshaft cap.

It's a crude drawing but it's close enough to get the point across.

 

[99 gst 420a dsm]

Here is a little story for you: My mom just moved into this new house, and i go over to hang out, do the house warming thing and i look across the street, and i see a black 2g in the back yard of these peoples house, all i could make out was that it was a 2g eclipse (black).. Being the 2g nut i am i go over and sure enough it was a 95 eclipse gs, auto non turbo... junk i know...... so i knock and ask about the car... "its got a real bad head gasket leak and the car only shifts into 1st, 2nd, and revurse"... so in my head im smiling from ear to ear, so i ask, "what do you gotta have for it", $1000 this woman says.... so i him and haw and tell her i will get back to her in a few days, the cars isnt going anyplace, so then i get thinking.....

There is an wrecked avenger ES at the body shop that the owner (a friend of the family) says he wants 300 bucks for, its very totaled, took a drivers side rear quarter hit, but will run and drive, its got an auto trans (of corse) and a 24valve 2.5L v6 with 77k miles on it. now i know i saw posts about this swap on the dsmtuner once before, but when i searched there were only flame wars...

PLUS on a good note i met this girl who really likes second gen. talons and all but dosent want to drive standard (the worst part is she drives 5spd real good) I got alot of props for swapping in a 95 probe GT v6 into my 93 mazda mx3 GS, and that swap was cake, so if i can buy that eclipse and do the V6 swap i think it would be something cool for her to take to car shows and what not, she also has to have theock 97-98 TSi look, so it would be losing the eclipse body parts asap

This isnt something im going to race out or anything like that, i know a woman with a sebring that comes into my dads parts store that has 225,000 miles on her 2.5L v6, so i take it they arent junk like my experience with 420a's have been.

i also seen some mods that would be an option, stainless headers $210, cold air intake $86, 2.5inch stainless cat-back $314, strut tower bars f/r $34, bembro f/r rotors (d/s) $144, tokico HP shocks with cheap coilovers (one inch drop and to make up for v6 weight)- $290

Thats like under $2000 total with a few mods and the TSi body swap

Any way this isnt about what i plan to do with it.... This is about me wanting help from those who know about the swap, or have performed the swap pleaso no hear-say or opinion

I need info on the swap, a walkthrough, or one on one with a person who has done this swap, please dont tell me if it is worth it or to just swap in a 4g63, i have seen it all before, dont flame my thread she is a chick who will be driving on my second set of plates, she dosent need a race car, but i think she could win car shows with that type of car, plus im getting bored not having any swaps to perform

thanx for the space,
mike

 

[91LaserRS]

FWIW....

Swapping in a 6g73 is a step down in power from the 420a. But it has been done and is a direct swap. If you wanna do something a little more extreme, try swapping a 6g74(3.5) from a 97-01 Diamonte. Motors are cheap as dirt and stock hp is 217. Nice bump from the 163 the 2.5 puts out. These are really common swaps for avengers since both motors are modular.


<----99 Avenger Sport w/ 6g74 swap.


If you need any help hit me up.


Later,
Frank

 

[99 gst 420a dsm]

Originally posted by 91LaserRS
FWIW....

Swapping in a 6g73 is a step down in power from the 420a. But it has been done and is a direct swap. If you wanna do something a little more extreme, try swapping a 6g74(3.5) from a 97-01 Diamonte. Motors are cheap as dirt and stock hp is 217. Nice bump from the 163 the 2.5 puts out. These are really common swaps for avengers since both motors are modular.


Later,
Frank

Thanx for the info, but im doing the avenger v6 swap, if you can help me step by step that will be great

i would first like to know what the swap required from the avenger

 

[99rs]

will the v6 and tranny fit in the engine bay of a 2g???????

 

[GSGoinFast]

will the v6 and tranny fit in the engine bay of a 2g???????

please search, discussed a million times, and all threads ive seen point to no, or it would be incredibly difficult to do

 

[VOTBLINDUB]

in reality, sure. look at what jesse james does and those hot rod shops. its doable. it will however cost a shitload. plus u will need to get an engine that will fit, relocate most of whats under the hood. probably make a whole new front end. all mounts brackets, tranny. its not worth it

 

[spooner_dee]

if you have the time and money and resources anything is possible, in my tuner magazine they put a V8 into a ford ####us, Personaly that was such a waste to put a V8 into a ford ####us, but they did. They had to cut off like the whole front end from infront the firewall and rebuild it using tubular steele then laid the engine and tranny in the put the rest the body back together over the new front end.

 

[spooner_dee]

that was for focus but i spellt it ford fucckus

 

[GSGoinFast]

haha the Focus RS8 race car? haha :laugh: :thumbdown