Upgrade path Issues

[XiKeiyaZI]

So, I've been going down the 2G upgrade path, stage 1 of course, and I'm starting to run into a few issues. Let me start by listing everything done and a few facts.

Step 1 : Intake - Check. Replace with High Flow Filter and Hardpipe.
Step 2 : Boost Gauge - Check. Was in the car when I got it. Relocated.
Step 3 : Blow of Valve - Check. Greddy Type S. Sealed up. No leaks
Step 4 : Boost Controler - Check.
Steps 5,6,7, & 8 : Check, check, check, and check. Full 3in' Exhaust, complete with Tubular Manifold. No leaks. Was 1 when I recieved the car. My local exhaust shop has repaired this.
Step 9 : 02 Housing - No. I will be porting the 02 housing this weekend.
Step 10 : Fuel Pump - Check? I was told it was running a 255 Wally..have yet to confirm this.
Step 11 : Intercooler Piping - No. I have checked the stock piping. No leaks, all is tight. I have an FMIC I'm waiting to install, just need to get my hands on piping.
Step 12 : Turbo upgrade - Check. Running the stock 1G Turbo.

:: Facts ::
Car pulls very hard, has quite a bit of power. It is, however, running just a tad lean. I've checked the system and have no leaks. I've performed 4 BLT's and came back with nothing the 4th time. System is tight and spools up great. The car hesistates from time to time. It's sitting at 12-14 PSI. When decelling, the car likes to sputter and backfire. My pressure/boost gauge shows an 18-20lbs vac. at idle with AC off.

Before I continue with the upgrade paths... what could my issue be with the lean condition? =/ I mean.. come-on.. a stock s14 keeps up with this thing.. something's odd. Compression is 160 across the board, so I know that's not bad. I changed plugs and oil recently. Old oil was pitch black. Swapped in NGK 6es' and gapped at .028.

Ran Codes on car as I have a CEL. At first I thought it was the rear 02. Rear 02 checked out. Turns out to be an EGR solenoid(?) and a Purge control Valve Solenoid. When I got the car, the emissions were hanging loosely everywhere so I yanked everything and sealed it all up, including blocking the EGR like I did in my 1G. CEL was there prior to this. >.< car runs better but that damned CEL...

Any thoughts or ideas would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to continue my upgrade path, but refuse to until the car is in tip-top condition.

 

[gofer]

If its running a tad lean that means more air is getting to the motor than the ECU is accounting for, a boost leak would be just the opposite. You might try swapping in a different MAF that you know is good and see if your car still wants to go lean. If that doesn't work your 14b might be overunning the stock fuel setup which really isn't that hard to do. It seems like that car came modified a bit before you bought it but the previous owner might not have rewired the fuel pump either.

I'm assuming your using a WB o2 sensor to see the AFR's go lean at WOT?

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

A wideband? You're putting too much faith in me. I haven't had the chance to save up to get one just yet. =/ Hopefully doing that this coming weekend, but seeing as how this is my first month in my new place, I'm trying to be lenient on my cash so I can be sure to figure out how bills and things fall.

I was almost tempted to get a narrow-band, but figured that'd be a waste of $30 since they seem to be so inaccurate. I know that the TD05 pushes more CM of air than the T25 on the 2g's, but I wasn't sure it'd be enough to max out the stock injectors. Someone almost had me convienced to swap in 550's, but my smarts kicked in and I realized I'd need at least a SAFC, which I won't buy. My next big buy after I get my lean issue taken care of and the FMIC on is ECMLink.

In short, No, I don't have wideband. I'd love to get my hands on one for cheap or something but I don't exactly have the cash right off hand to just go out and order one =/

I also have a new fuel filter sitting in my car, haven't had the chance to change the old one. And when I say old.. I mean it's got small spots of rust on it. Could the system have a small choke in it that's causing the system to not provide enough fuel under boost and decel? I had read that over 2K and off the gas, the car will cut ALL fuel to the engine... so that wouldn't matter would it? Or correct me if I'm wrong on what I read. Also.. I'll see if I can pull the FP today and check it out. Are there any identifying marks to show if the FP is a wally? If so, are there any to show if it's a 190 or a 255? And if it's a 255... would I even be having a lean issue since they tend to over-run the stock FPR?

 

[turbosax2]

How exactly do you know the car is running lean?

 

[gofer]

How exactly do you know the car is running lean?

Exactly what Eric said, how do you know your going lean without a WB? If your checking your spark plugs just be sure they are new ones, not plugs that have been in there awhile. Narrowbands work great, they'll let you if your front o2 is cycling or not but for tuning purposes its just an expensive disco show if you ask me.

Replacing the fuel filter is also a good idea, just be sure to take EXTREME care when your removing it from the stock fuel lines because they'll twist very easily.

Walbro Fuel Pump Part Numbers

• 190: GSS250
• 255: GSS317
• 255 HP: GSS342

Odds are you have a stock fuel pump, you'll know if you do once you pull it out of the tank. All Denso 1g, 2g, & GVR4 in tank fuel pumps start with the part number 195130-xxxx.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Though I'm new to 2Gs, I'm not new to experiencing the differences between a properly running car and a poorly running one.

The plugs are a little over a week old. They are not that lovely milk chocolate color that they should be, they are more of a pale white. It backfires on Decel, and has a jumpy/hesitant pull while accelerating until you get into boost. After reading through threads, I can only suspect that this points to a mild lean condition. It doesn't seem like it's enough to damage anything, but it's enough to rob power.

So you'd recommend that I go ahead and grab a Narrowband for the time being? I'll be saving up for LINK soon anyhow which should give me a ton of the proper tools to tune so it'll become obsolete then.. but not at least for another few weeks to a month.

 

[gofer]

Though I'm new to 2Gs, I'm not new to experiencing the differences between a properly running car and a poorly running one.

The plugs are a little over a week old. They are not that lovely milk chocolate color that they should be, they are more of a pale white. It backfires on Decel, and has a jumpy/hesitant pull while accelerating until you get into boost. After reading through threads, I can only suspect that this points to a mild lean condition. It doesn't seem like it's enough to damage anything, but it's enough to rob power.

So you'd recommend that I go ahead and grab a Narrowband for the time being? I'll be saving up for LINK soon anyhow which should give me a ton of the proper tools to tune so it'll become obsolete then.. but not at least for another few weeks to a month.

I DO NOT recommend getting a narrowband since all they are is a blinking light show that looks cool and attracts police, save it for a WB o2 and I suggest getting the AEM UEGO.

Until you get dsmlink for the time being rewire your fuel pump since you'll want to do that anyway, and replace the fuel filter.

I'm glad to see people using the upgrade path on the site, thats what its there for so we don't get threads that say "I want XXXawhp, how do I get there?" I do think that if I were to do all this over again knowing then what I know now I wouldn't have followed the upgrade path. The very first "MOD" would have been an EPROM ECU and dsmlink. It has BY FAR been the best investment I have made for this car, not just to get it down the track faster but to fix it when it decides to break.

 

[Calan]

Personally, I'd save whatever needed and get ECMLink and a decent WB before spending a penny anywhere else (like on FMIC piping, injectors, etc).

Once you have those two items, you can see exactly what's going on and get a good tune with what you have, and you'll have data that you need to make a decision about the next upgrades.

The very first "MOD" would have been an EPROM ECU and dsmlink. It has BY FAR been the best investment I have made for this car, not just to get it down the track faster but to fix it when it decides to break.

Agreed 100%.

Knowing exactly what is going on with the engine and being able to control every aspect of it is crucial to getting the best power, longevity, and fun out of the car.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Luckily, a lot of these things were already done when I got ahold of it, so I don't have to dump cash in those aspects. I've been able to polish up and repair anything that was broken or half functioning. The car is up and running good...I just can't get rid of this damned lean condition or the backfire on decel. So We'll assume that the turbo is overrunning the injectors? It makes sense...

Mmm.. so as most 95's... this ECU is eprom. I don't think it's socket'd but I'm going to pull it and double check. I've not had a whole lot of ECU experience in my time just yet... but I've been dying to get ahold on ECMLink because I think that not only would be it be fun to tune and see what different setups work and how they effect the car...but I would also like to tune and get the best from my setup as I progress through the stages. I won't be looking for a LOAD of power from this.. maybe around the 250-300 range.... because I want an AWD monster.. not a FWD... =/

Welp...so... looks like I'm staying where I am with mods until I get ECMLink...-_-; too bad I'm not rich and can't afford the damned socket+chip+accessories+program right off hand...=/ I'm also not too familiar with the site itself. I registered and read over a bit, but I can't access the forums? I'd just like to know what package I need to buy.. and if not from there and I come across a deal on here.. what all do I need to setup ECMLink for my car?

 

[wishin4nX]

Just out of curiosity, is your bov vented?

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Oh GOD no. xD It's recirc'd. I'd be running rich between shifts otherwise.

 

[habitatguy187]

You can't log into the link forums until you buy.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Aww...how disappointing...

 

[snowborder714]

I registered and read over a bit, but I can't access the forums?

You won't be able to until you purchase a package, as was stated above.

I'd just like to know what package I need to buy.

Here's a comparison chart to show you what's available in the lite vs. full versions. You can always upgrade to the full if you decide you want the features, but I typically just say go big from the beginning.

prodcompare [ECMTuning - wiki]

what all do I need to setup ECMLink for my car?

I would recommend at a minimum a wideband so you can log your AFR's. You can also get a MAP sensor so you can log your boost. And then add on an IAT sensor and run speed density. You can log much more (oil pressure, fuel pressure, etc.) if you get creative and are willing to push the envelope, but most people just use the three above.

 

[habitatguy187]

Just get link lite. Seriously guys, who here uses the extra features that regular link has that link lite doesn't? I think we need to start a poll.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Well, I don't plan on pushing a whole lot of HP out of this car, but I am looking to make a bit. ;3 and with ECMLink, I can familiarize myself with it before I get into working on my Laser and know what to do and how to do it.

One thing that kind of worries me is the socket. I REALLY hope I pull the ECU and it's socketed, but I doubt it. >.< And I'm sure that if I try to do it myself, something will go wrong.

Ahh well. =/ I can't go any further with this car until I get LINK. Guess I'll be reading up on it.

 

[Calan]

Seriously guys, who here uses the extra features that regular link has that link lite doesn't?

I use some of the extra features all the time; dual maps, FPS control to remove fuel when WAI kicks in, extended DA range, individual DT adjustment, the new ECU boost control (available in lite?), etc.

But you are right; for many or most people V3 lite would work great.

 

[JFZERO ECLIPSE]

Just get link lite. Seriously guys, who here uses the extra features that regular link has that link lite doesn't? I think we need to start a poll.

I love the mafcomp adjust table that is available on the full version of link....Link lite does not offer it...makes life just that much easier....

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Im afraid of the entire socketing aspect.. >.<

 

[nsrmotorsports]

Well the one thing i would say is, did you buy oem spec spark plugs or did you go one step colder. I too bought my 2G from a previous owner that did a few mods. I was having the same issues. a stutter in the accel until i hit boost or over 3500 rpms. I went ahead and decided that i would replace the plugs and found out that number 3 was not even tightend down all the way, but anyway with new oem spec NGK's the stutter accel, the backfires on decel all went away. Hope this helps

 

[snowborder714]

Which is why you send it to ECMtuning and have them do it. They'll also replace your caps to prevent leaking and fully test it.

You can also send it to steve (member name on here) as he might be closer to you. Either one of them do great work.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Well the one thing i would say is, did you buy oem spec spark plugs or did you go one step colder. I too bought my 2G from a previous owner that did a few mods. I was having the same issues. a stutter in the accel until i hit boost or over 3500 rpms. I went ahead and decided that i would replace the plugs and found out that number 3 was not even tightend down all the way, but anyway with new oem spec NGK's the stutter accel, the backfires on decel all went away. Hope this helps

....That's, down to the detail, my issue.

Once I hit about 3300-3500, the car picks up like there's no problem and it's on it's way.

When I checked the plugs out when meeting the guy, the things were barely on hand tight. I tightened them down ASAP and it helped out a lot. Perhaps I just purchased the incorrect plugs upon replacing them?

And thanks Brian, I'll certainly look into that. I wasn't aware that ECM offered that service. How long does it usually take for them to receive, socket, and then return the said ECU? =/ I don't want to be out a car for weeks waiting..I'm fairly decent with soldering and whatnot... but it's better safe than sorry, right?

 

[gofer]

I use nearly EVERY feature of V3's full version that V3lite doesn't have.

• Switchable primary and secondary maps for E85 and 91oct just in case there are no E85 stations on my road trips
• Running a GM MAF with the GM cable that plugs right into my original MAF harness (and I think Brians brother makes them )
• Idle air simulation because my car started dieing on decel from the big SMIM/FP intake I put on the car
• High res deadtime and individual deadtime control are a must for bigger injectors
• The biggest hitter are the MAFComp sliders, EVERYONE with V3 uses these. I tried setting up a buddies idle and cruise using V3lite and I had to learn all over again, I was lost without those sliders.

 

[Dert]

....That's, down to the detail, my issue.

Once I hit about 3300-3500, the car picks up like there's no problem and it's on it's way.

When I checked the plugs out when meeting the guy, the things were barely on hand tight. I tightened them down ASAP and it helped out a lot. Perhaps I just purchased the incorrect plugs upon replacing them?

And thanks Brian, I'll certainly look into that. I wasn't aware that ECM offered that service. How long does it usually take for them to receive, socket, and then return the said ECU? =/ I don't want to be out a car for weeks waiting..I'm fairly decent with soldering and whatnot... but it's better safe than sorry, right?

ECMtuning says usually sameday shipbackout on their website so I'm guessing they are quick at it and they have done so many it's probably a simple task for them

 

[turbosax2]

Please do not try socketing the ecu yourself. It'll end up costing more to fix the botched socket job than it would have if you just sent it to a pro in the first place.

Corey, I don't make the GM maf cables, but I do make the SD cables!