Turbo decision(T28 vs. bigEvo16g)

[greenmachine97]

Ok, I am finally here! The hardest decision i have ever needed to make with my car. I have searched and searched and read many posts, but i am still not sure yet. I have been building it and preparing it for a turbo upgrade since i got it. All i need now is a supra fuel pump and port/polished exhaust manifold and then the turbo. So here i am, i need a new turbo. I want something that will get me into the real low 14's. And into the 13's with a Quaife or KAAZ LSD. that will be my next biggest decision. I still want it to be very streetable and reliable, because this is my only car.
But anyway, i want to stay under 850 installed. so 850 including an install kit if needed. i will do the labor myself. I want to here from people tha have had personal experience with both the T28 and the 16g. if you have personal experience with only 1, i would like to here from you also. please post your track times also. But if you had one turbo, and switched to another turbo, please post your thoughts. I am looking at the FPt28, and EVO16g. So any experience you have, please share it. thanks for the space.

 

[69_luv]

My evo316g made 24psi at 3400rpms. Great turbo. Was cake to install. With my header though I wasn't able to retain the heat shield. No probs with the radiator fans. I had my own probs with header making to much heat, and had to have it JETCOATED though.

The Evo316g I purchased from DSMPARTS was $569, and they shipped it for free for me. I ended up buying the Evo3o2 housing too, but found out that wasn't the best idea considering the Housing has a different angle and won't bolt up to the Apexi DP/Turbo back exhaust with out modification.

I was very very happy with the evo3, hard puller. Find a good jpipe, and you can make the oil feed return line pretty easy with some inexpensive parts from Napa. You will want to track down an Evo gasket to go between the turbo and o2 housing. I would recommend having your stock O2 housing ported to match the Evo turbo though. Same with the turbo to manifold.
If I was to do it over go with the EXTERNAL DUMP, don't waste your money on the evo o2 housing that won't bolt up to Apexi exhaust..... BLLLLLAAAAA

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

what about having an auto which is better evoIII or t-28

 

[Denji]

the evo big 16g. its supposed to be a little slower spooling with more topend..better for those who dont have to shift and can retain boost the whole way (autos)

 

[big green]

When my T-25 blew I was in the same boat as you. I ended up going with a ported Big28 from Forced Performance. I have nothing but good things to say about this turbo.

 

[69_luv]

I would go with a faster spoolin turbo for auto. That is unless you have a high stall conv. to get your power brake up. I have a slight turbo lag cuz I can only power brake to 2800rpm, so I am only getting about 8psi at launch, it lags a little but as soon as I hit 3400 its all on.

EVO316g = best bang for buck
Great pump gas turbo, fast spool, strong power all the way to 7k
What more can you ask for under $600?

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

so ur saying a t-28 spools faster then a evo 16g then since i have an auto i should get the t-28 cause its spools quicker right?? what inlet is bigger between the 2?

 

[midnght]

They should be the same, I believe. 2.25-2.5inch inlet (can use stock accordian)

 

[greenmachine97]

so does anyone have any dyno slips for t28's over 300hp on pump gas? or does anyone have any time slips for t28's running under 14.3 on FWD with pump gas?

 

[69_luv]

with the laptop, and G-tek3, now granted they are not exact by any means but ball park range. I pulled a 13.8 on 5gal 105 and 5gal 93. I came up with 356hp and that about figures with my supporting mods. I wanted to get it on they dyno but came into some issues. That is with the Evo3 16g and an automatic. I spiked at 27psi, but dropped and held steady at 24psi.
I can't go to the track cuz I have shaved door handles, so I am sorry that I won't be able to provide time slips....

Can you get a T28 for under $800 with install? That was what your orignal question was, and I know for sure that you can get a 16g installed for less than $800. With that turbo and all the supporting mods, you should be in low 14's, and in my case high 13's. If you have a couple extra dollars have the 16g ported/clipped. Help spool, more power.

Goodluck!!

 

[greenmachine97]

Thanks for the tip. Whatever i do, i will do it right. i am not going to hold anything back. If i get a turbo, i will have it ported/clipped whatever i need to do it, in order to make it perform at its optimum level. i also plan on porting my ex. manifold, and maybe getting a new 2.5" o2 housing. So whatever my decision may be, it will be the best that i can get with it. I really want the 16g, but the idea of having a t28 drop right in with no mods is very tempting. especially since i have a greddy lower IC pipe that i would want to keep, at least until i do my FMIC. keep the advice and support coming.

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

which one gives more HP w/ supporting mods

 

[69_luv]

more hp isn't always faster. A lower spooling turbo that can put out the power can be faster than a FP Green. Its who can put the power down, who has it TUNED, and has the supporting mods.

I think an Evo3 16g is bigger than a T28, but I am sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong. I have seen a couple people on here that are over the 400hp mark with the 16g. That is 13's in a daily driver. If you want more than that start looking at FP, and trim turbo's.

Each person is going to have thier opinions, they are like a__holes....everybody has got one....

I wouldn't put the turbo on tell you HAVE ALL SUPPORTING MODS!! If you plan on putting the turbo through the hoops and you don't have all your ducks in a row then you are going to do more damage then good. Somebody was saying something about having an auto, get that fixed first. Talk to Transdude (John at IPT), have a tranny built to hold your power. Get a high stall conv. that way you can take full advantage of having an auto. Get the FMIC, injectors, all the IC piping, MAFT, and then get your turbo last.

I am just giving this advice cuz its the best way to go, get all the ingredients before you try to bake the cake.

Good luck, and happy DSM

 

[greenmachine97]

so you think that i should get my EGT guage, supra fuel pump, and SAFC before getting the turbo? i am already for sure going to get the supra fuel pump though.

 

[midnght]

so you think that i should get my EGT guage, supra fuel pump, and SAFC before getting the turbo? i am already for sure going to get the supra fuel pump though.

if you are not ready then go for the support first. It will save the headache of not running right and such. IMO, The turbo and intercooler are the last things to add to a car ready for a setup.

 

[greenmachine97]

well i have everything else, check my profile. fuel pump i am getting for sure, but do you think i should get an SAFC and EGT before the turbo? and What is the difference between the SAFC and SAFC2? which is better?

 

[69_luv]

I wouldn't go with the super afc, or super afc 2, cuz I went with the MAFT setup. I like the vent to the atmosphere and the fact that I am tuning from right next to the tb elbow.

Second, I went with the walbro 255, and the rewire. Make sure that you read up on everything that is needed. Injectors, FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR!!!, and a boost controller. If your going to run the Evo316g then I would go with 650cc cuz I maxed out my 550cc.

I think that a wideband is the single most important tuning tool you should have. An EGT, and A/F guage does very little for you, and is more or less there for looks. Spend the money on a wideband, that way you can tune the car. Also get a FPR, and if possible an electronic FP gauge that you can monitor FP from inside the car. Tuning is the most important step of anything. I ran into that problem too late, and caused a lot of damage. You can get a palm pilot off ebay for 15 or so, get the OBD2 interface for $75, and that tool can help solve some heartache.

So yes, do your MAFT setup, or AFC if that is the route you choose, and the fuel pump, along with Injectors. Then do the turbo. I would get the car ready for the turbo before putting the turbo in and not being able to do anything with it. FInd a FMIC, so you don't heat soak the little sidemount that comes from the factory, and do something with your auto. I smoke checked mine on the first run after mods where done. Our auto's where not ment to power break with that kind of power with out support.

Just a question off the wall, but why are you so firm on afc or afc2? Its just another thing to clutter the cockpit, and another thing to try to tune with. The MAFT you set the dials, and go. Nothing to worry about. TWO wires to install!! It does the same thing that the afc/afc2 do, and is cheaper? Just my two cents.

 

[greenmachine97]

well, i am a manual not an auto. i was wanting to get a SAFC because that is the most common thing i have heard of using. and to be honest with you, i think if i get an SAFC i will just go to an experienced DSM dyno place all day, and have them make 2 tuning settings. have one set for daily driving/pump gas, and another for racing/110 octane. so that way all i have to do is hit a button and not ever have to mess with tuning it everytime i go to the track. i know taht is the non-tuner's perspective, but to me it seems the safest route. and driveability is a major factory for me when i modify my car, because it is the only car i own. what does everyone else seem to think? MAFT or SAFC?
and 69_Luv, talk to me about your MAFT setup. Price? Where did you get it? what all does it include?

 

[69_luv]

I didn't know anythinga bout tuning and just did all the stuff to my car. When I finally couldn't figure out how to make the car run I took it to Pina Motorsports in Seattle.
After the car was tuned and the settings where set on the MAFT the rest is let it alone and do its stuff.

I don't mess with any settings on a daily basis. Thats its purpose, to manage the fuel flow, just the same as the afc, safc. The MAFT was two wires to hook up. plugged right into the factory maf harness.

Price: $50 for the 3" GM MAF, 199 for the MAFT, and I paid around $170 for my UICP from DEJON. That allowed me to vent my BOV to the atomoshpere and IS WICKED loud. There is no mistake to any car I go by that I am turbo and you can hear it every time I let off the gas. All my parts on my car came from DSMPARTS.COM they are awsome there, Chris and Andrew have helped me out a buttload!!

This is my daily driver, with the bonus that its stupid fast. I don't want to have to go to a shop and tune all the time. IE get a wideband, and a palm logger. Monitor the fuel, and let the MAFT take care of the air flow mixture.

You asked AFC VS MAFT, you better do a lot of reading, its like asking do you want a TSI or a GSX, do you want an apple or an orange? I don't like things that give my car away as being modified.....other than my cf hood....and I didn't want to try and find a "goddy" place to try and install the afc. Have you read the instruction booklete for that thing? Good god...

When I started getting all my parts ( i did everything...everything in one large chunk) I ordered the fuel package from dsmparts.com, the injectors, superAFC2, and walbro 255. The pacakge was 600+ and I got the SAFC and wires...huge thing...a novel for instruction manual, and then I found out that the MAFT could do everything that the SAFC can do, and do it under the hood, in a little box, with only two wires. I took the simple way, shipped the SAFC2 back to them, and they sent me the MAFT/MAF/UICP back.

Do some homework, and see what fits your style. Remember its about what you want, not what everybody else has.

By the way I noticed on your parts wishlist that you have a DNP on there, let me tell you that its the shiznit!! Look at my profile and you will see pics of mine.

MAFT=SIMPLE and PFFFFFFFTTT to everyone around you!!

 

[EvolvingGST]

OK, so let me get this right? You blew up your car because you think an EGT is a waste of money and for looks??? An EGT shows you the temp of your car, so it will give you an accurate reading of how your car is reacting to the air/fuel mixture. If you looked at your EGT and you temp was too high then you should have known to shut off your car... You are running too lean, simple as that. You failed also because you probably had no idea how your car was acting, and if it was knocking since you didn't tune your car. Knocking can be read with your SAFC/Datalogger/AVCR. -.- So if you even cared about truely tuning your car then you wouldn't have blown it up.

Dataloggers are cool because they can log every point with everything that happens at every single RPM... BUT its not something that if you had an electronic boost controller and a SAFC II you can't read, the only difference is that one logs it, so it makes it easier and more efficient to tune. Hence the ammount of wires you need to tap. AFC advantage is that it allows you to save fuel maps and have point to point tuning by RPMs, the SAFC II which has 14 points and the SAFC which has 7.

FYI: A LOT of people use both the SAFC w/ the MAFT at the same time. Its like running a HKS VPC w/ a SAFC... A LOT of people do it. I would compare a MAFT more with a VPC.

whatever you do, good luck.

 

[greenmachine97]

great thanks for the advice. So for my beginning stages in my tuning you would reccomend me to get a SAFC2 and an EGT guage? I think that is what i will do for now. After i "really" get into it, and have my car REALLY built, like after the quaife and cams, i am going to get a bigger turbo anyways, and then i will probaly run a dsmlink. but until then i think i want to get just basic stuff, and make sure the car runs perfect. keep it all coming guys. i want to hear everyones opinion and experience.

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

so does anyone have any dyno slips for t28's over 300hp on pump gas? or does anyone have any time slips for t28's running under 14.3 on FWD with pump gas?

I could problaby beat 14.3, but I haven't been to the track since last fall. I don't want to go too fast there cuz if I hit 13.99 they'll kick me out for not having a roll cage :thumbdown

 

[greenmachine97]

I don't want to go too fast there cuz if I hit 13.99 they'll kick me out for not having a roll cage :thumbdown

haha, . i wish i had those problems! What setup are you running? and you are FWD, correct?

 

[saw wave analog]

i can definately beat a 14.3 on my auto bigt28. my mods are injen intake, fp ported big t28 at 18psi on 95 octane pump gas, mbc/gauge, fuel pump rewire, translab shift kit and a pocketlogger. i am able to run pretty high boost on my mostly stock fuel system because my exhaust is stock and keeps things restrained without causing any ill effects as confirmed daily by my logger.. if i pull off my dp and run open exhaust i get uncontrollable boost creep, seriously pulled timing and fuel cut every time i go wot, but it also gives me an extra 7 lbs/min of air at the same psi.. dsmlink and fuel system are coming in a month or so. my o2's hold steady at .92-94 and i get timing advance to a max of 19 or 20 at about 6500 rpm. i absolutely raped a gen before current mustang gt with a 50 shot and intake/exhaust last night from a stop in an a pre-arranged race and i pull pretty decent on established low 14 cars. the hours i work make it pretty hard for me to get to the track but i am confident i am in the 13.9 range, and thats running rich as piss on a totally stock exhaust only flowing 27 lbs/min.. there is a LOT left in the bigt28 and i am not upgrading it until ive been able to get consistant 12's on pump gas, which isnt going to be hard if it continues to respond to mods like it has been... you will all surely hear all about it when it happens oh yeah, i should also mention that on my stock torque converter i am able to launch at 18psi at 3k rpm.. good for a chirp of all 4 if its cold out

 

[ozzeran]

I could problaby beat 14.3, but I haven't been to the track since last fall. I don't want to go too fast there cuz if I hit 13.99 they'll kick me out for not having a roll cage :thumbdown

most tracks only require a helmet for 13.99 and under. I think 11.99 and under is cage, i think that's NHRA rules. Unless you're track is different.

 

[hornetsnest]

most tracks only require a helmet for 13.99 and under. I think 11.99 and under is cage, i think that's NHRA rules. Unless you're track is different.

It's because he's got a convertible that 13.99 needs a roll cage.