tuning a non-turbo?

[slider85]

is it possible to tune a non-turbo without buying an AFC or anything else? Can you take it somewhere to get timing and air/fuel ratio changed? How much would that cost?
My mods are:
1) K&N AIr Filter(removed air can)
2) Hi-flow cat, 2 1/4" piping, hi-flow muffler(stock manifold and downpipe)
3) NGK plugs and wires

maybe some more but can't think of them right now. I really just want to know the numbers(hp, air ratio, etc.) for my car.

 

[GSGoinFast]

is it possible to tune a non-turbo without buying an AFC or anything else? Can you take it somewhere to get timing and air/fuel ratio changed? How much would that cost?
My mods are:
1) K&N AIr Filter(removed air can)
2) Hi-flow cat, 2 1/4" piping, hi-flow muffler(stock manifold and downpipe)
3) NGK plugs and wires

maybe some more but can't think of them right now. I really just want to know the numbers(hp, air ratio, etc.) for my car.

ive heard you can barely tune stock cams. to tune it without an afc, you could maybe get an ecu reflash but thats it.

 

[92DSMErdrick]

Well your air fuel ratio isn't gonna really change. Because i'll tell you i have allready a custom cold air intake with a complete open airbox, 2.5" exhaust with N1 style muffler, and NGK spark plugs. My car runs were it should be with air/fuel, i believe slightly toward the rich side rather that lean. But you can tune your car to be more lean or more rich at higher RPM's. http://www.ecanfix.com/~mdhamilton/fuelmod.html tells you how to increase your fuel or air at Full open throttle. I tuned my car alittle more to being rich at higher RPM's and i do feel alittle difference in the car, also smoother in 5th gear with the car floored. The K&N filter costs prolly 40-50, plugs cost me i think 48ish on ebay, and the exhaust depends if you bring it to a shop or buy all the parts seperate or together. i payed roughly 500 for my whole exhaust(thats including the header) Hope that helps.

 

[GSGoinFast]

Well your air fuel ratio isn't gonna really change. Because i'll tell you i have allready a custom cold air intake with a complete open airbox, 2.5" exhaust with N1 style muffler, and NGK spark plugs. My car runs were it should be with air/fuel, i believe slightly toward the rich side rather that lean. But you can tune your car to be more lean or more rich at higher RPM's. http://www.ecanfix.com/~mdhamilton/fuelmod.html tells you how to increase your fuel or air at Full open throttle. I tuned my car alittle more to being rich at higher RPM's and i do feel alittle difference in the car, also smoother in 5th gear with the car floored. The K&N filter costs prolly 40-50, plugs cost me i think 48ish on ebay, and the exhaust depends if you bring it to a shop or buy all the parts seperate or together. i payed roughly 500 for my whole exhaust(thats including the header) Hope that helps.

that makes no sense. you tuned it richer and felt a difference? was it slower? leaner usually = more power. how do you tune it without an afc?

 

[92DSMErdrick]

How would giving the engine more fuel make it slower? and yes i can feel a difference, the car feels more smoother and faster throughout . And its not making it super rich, just slightly over the standard expectations of the car. If you didnt read that url page, it explains that it intercepts the signal coming from the MAS that tells the ecu how cold/dense the air is. by tuning it it changes that signal and tells the ecu to give the engine more fuel only at Full open throttel(meaning floor pedal to the floor) the power is when you really get moving at those high RPM's

 

[pinknuggit]

yeah.. thats what all those "+20hp chip!" ebay auctions are. All they do is make your ecu think its seeing colder air so it dumps more fuel in. The funny thing is that if it had the reverse affect, it would actually give you power by leaning it out rahter than dumping more fuel in and doing nothing. It's just the way engines work (a slight edge toward lean will yield more power than a slight edge to rich). You might notice a difference, but I bet if i snuck in late at night and took the potentionmete off, you wouldn't notice a difference.
"Don't adjust this unless you've done some mods to require more fuel"
A header and intake do not have enough of a difference to throw your A/F ratio off enough to need to do this mod.
What that equates to is crappy idle and hard starts during cold winter.

Straight off of that site talking about the potentionmeter on the barometer sensor. This mod Leans out your mixture.
"All cars can benefit from this since Mitsubishi programmed the ecu so that it runs rich at full throttle."

If you'll look, the page is about a turbo ECU. Turbo engines and n/a engines have a different outcome to this mod.

 

[StreetSleeper34]

is it possible to tune a non-turbo without buying an AFC or anything else? Can you take it somewhere to get timing and air/fuel ratio changed? How much would that cost?

If those are your only mods, there is no need to play around with the fuel curves. In order to make a significant change in the amount of fuel, you need a substantial amount of air coming in along with a way to get it out. You can obtain this with some port and polish work to the intake and head along with oversized valves. Then purchase a header and get a custom cat-back system. This is a good start, then get larger cams along with adjustable cam gears so you can play with the timing of the valves. If they open and close at the right time, you can gain quite a bit of performance from getting better air flow in and out. At this point, you may start running a little lean (like I did), so then you should get a GM MAF along with the translator from Punishment Racing and build a custom CAI. The translator is tunable and will give you the extra fuel you need at this point. This would be the best way to go to get the performance you are looking for. After that, if you get that far, you will be addicted and will want to go a lot further I am sure, which will include either the S-AFC II, larger injectors, fuel pump, and FPR. But with where you are at right now on the mod list, you have plenty of fuel to handle your current needs. Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[1fastRS]

i have the following mods:
Aem V2
header
3 inch test pipe and Apexi N1 catback ( so when i get my turbo )
Screamin Deamon Coil Pack
MSD 8.5mm wires
bored out tb ( 52mm all the way ), but i want to put on a 55mm
Underdrive crank pulley

so now my question is this, is there any reason to screw with the a/f ratio? is there any way to check the a/f ratio without a wide band O2? also would there be any reason to change the injectors? i can get a set of 24lb injectors for a good price. is it worth it? when should you bother with a fuel controller? if i put a ported and polished intake manifold should i get one, or should you just wait untill you start messing with the head? one last question, what about adjustable fuel regulators. would there be any point to putting one on if you dont have a lot of head work or a turbo? this is an area i've always been a little confused about so if someone could help me out that would be great.

 

[StreetSleeper34]

i have the following mods:
Aem V2
header
3 inch test pipe and Apexi N1 catback ( so when i get my turbo )
Screamin Deamon Coil Pack
MSD 8.5mm wires
bored out tb ( 52mm all the way ), but i want to put on a 55mm
Underdrive crank pulley

so now my question is this, is there any reason to screw with the a/f ratio? is there any way to check the a/f ratio without a wide band O2? also would there be any reason to change the injectors? i can get a set of 24lb injectors for a good price. is it worth it? when should you bother with a fuel controller? if i put a ported and polished intake manifold should i get one, or should you just wait untill you start messing with the head? one last question, what about adjustable fuel regulators. would there be any point to putting one on if you dont have a lot of head work or a turbo? this is an area i've always been a little confused about so if someone could help me out that would be great.

It would be wise to invest in a data logger of some sort. This will give you the information about how your car is running, and much more accurate than gauges ever will. This will determine whether you are running lean, rich, or stoich. From my experience, you should be running fine with the stock components if those are your mods so far. If you decide to upgrade your fuel system, it would good to start with a regulator. This could bump it up a bit without changing your injectors or pump, and even if you decide to change those out as well, this will help control the flow a little better as well. Once you go turbo, everything will need to be swapped. For now, get the logger, find out where you are on the readings, then look at what options you have. Always start with the basics first.

 

[Thunderskull]

Yes, invest in a logger before you start messing with fuel. A regulator's a good idea if you're close to maxing the stock injectors and need some extra room. I'm in that boat and the regulator helps me out a good deal. You'll know whether or not you're maxing out your stock fuel system from looking at your logger readings. I have the Bios2k logger cable (had to use a null modem adapter to get it to work) with a palmpilot and the free mmcd software. It works great and cost less than $100 total. Go on ebay and take a look around.

 

[GSGoinFast]

Yes, invest in a logger before you start messing with fuel. A regulator's a good idea if you're close to maxing the stock injectors and need some extra room. I'm in that boat and the regulator helps me out a good deal. You'll know whether or not you're maxing out your stock fuel system from looking at your logger readings. I have the Bios2k logger cable (had to use a null modem adapter to get it to work) with a palmpilot and the free mmcd software. It works great and cost less than $100 total. Go on ebay and take a look around.

hes 2g, your 1g, is that a universal product or an aplication specific product?

Buying a s-afc, even with basic mods, is a really great tool. Mike(Miamieclipse) got one, and got 9whp from it on the dyno. check out his mod list, its not that extensive. ignore the stuff towards the bottom tho, that stuff isnt on yet, they mysteriously ended up in his mod list tho

thura from 2gnt got 8whp on the dyno from tuning his.

i got one, but havnt tuned it yet. im thinking about going out and tuning it now. just got my egt working. so i say its worth it. 9whp is a lot for our cars.

 

[Thunderskull]

I don't think that option will work for a 2gnt. I have no idea what products are out there for logging the 420a. Tuning is a great idea. You just need to have some tools there so that you can get feedback from what you're doing.

 

[1fastRS]

so would changing the injectors from stock to 24lb ones make that much of a difference? could it too much fuel? also about the regulator, how do you know what psi to run without getting to rich or lean? do you need a controller for that? and you guys say a datalogger is a good idea, even at this stage? i found a wide band O2 that datalogs as well for like $349 ( cant think of brand off hand ). would that be worth getting right now?

 

[GSGoinFast]

so would changing the injectors from stock to 24lb ones make that much of a difference? could it too much fuel? also about the regulator, how do you know what psi to run without getting to rich or lean? do you need a controller for that? and you guys say a datalogger is a good idea, even at this stage? i found a wide band O2 that datalogs as well for like $349 ( cant think of brand off hand ). would that be worth getting right now?

new injectors would do nothing for you now. if you are going turbo, then you could get them, but you would still need something to controll them and give you a smooth idle. your fuel system is adequete for now. if anything you can get an afc, but that would just be for fine tuning. your not maxing out anything on your stock system that would need replaceing.

 

[1fastRS]

this is kind of off the subject, but how do you know what a/f ratio to run once you put a turbo on? is there a basic number to stay within or does it vary from car to car? i've always wondered this but i havent been able to find an answer.

 

[GSGoinFast]

this is kind of off the subject, but how do you know what a/f ratio to run once you put a turbo on? is there a basic number to stay within or does it vary from car to car? i've always wondered this but i havent been able to find an answer.

its all dependent on how much boost your running, among other stuff. i know they need to be richer then NA.