Tranny swap how complex? Need opinions

[VicBoost]

Okay i have a 1995 tsi AWD talon with a automatic quick shift kit transmission. The transmission shifts great and quick shift is great and i get a incredible launch but i just missing driving stick. So i want too do a full 5spd tranny swap, i was just wonder how complex and how hard is it doing one? Also considering my budget how i'm i looking into spending? Also will only a dsm Tranny work? I want too know how much work and $$ this going too cost me so i can decide if its even worth it. Thanks guys.

 

[91tsirasinhell]

It will take alot of work to do the swap. You have to change the petal assembly, mount a clutch master cylander, and run all fluid lines. It would proubably be in your best intrest and a whole lot easier to sell your car and buy a 5 speed. but it is plssible to do the swap. If u attemp it it good luck!

 

[Fierc3 Kid]

I don't know of anyone who has done it, personally I wouldn't recommend it. I agree with 91tsirasinhell, and on top of what he said, you're going to get more problems than a normal 5 speed would. Just because you have to get all this new stuff for it, and install it. When something goes wrong, it's not going to be easy to fix, because of all the custom stuff that you're going to have to bypass.

 

[Dream On]

Yeah you'd have to get another tranny, slave, master, clutch line, probably a t-case, starter, starter plate, axles, and the pedals and shifter. Maybe even more stuff, but thats all I can think of right now. I helped do it on a FWD, and it wasn't that bad, but took a long time.

 

[alex]

I copied this off www.vfaq.com

First off, this is a very straight forward swap, nothing mind boggling or needing special tools. I don't have air tools where I'm doing the swap and 90% of the work is done with a 12mm or 14mm socket. The total time for the swap was just under 9 hours on the project car. (This doesn't include the time removing the parts from the donor car)
I'm explaining this in the order that you should accomplish this. I assume that you've removed/installed a tranny before so I won't get too detailed in that aspect. By far the most complicated part of all this is the pedal assembly. In order to switch from the brake pedal only too brake and clutch the steering assembly must be taken out of the car. There is no shortcut in switching the pedals, this must be done.

Get the parts you need:

Shifter Assembly Shifter Boot Shifter Cables
Cable Hold downs and Firewall Gasket Brake and Clutch Pedal assembly Clutch Master
Clutch Fluid Line Clutch Assembly Flywheel
Flywheel to Crankshaft bolts Manual Transmission Clutch Slave

Parts that are the same in case you're wondering.........

Gas Pedal Driveshafts Bolt holes for shifter assembly
Bolt holes for Brake/Clutch assembly

Swapping the Pedals - Total time: 2.5 hours
pedaldifferences.jpg (25211 bytes)
Differences Between Pedals nosteercolm.jpg (73453 bytes)
Steering column out for pedal installation clutchmaster.jpg (40504 bytes)
Clutch Master and reservoir installed
pedalinstalled.jpg (44835 bytes)
Pedal Installed pedalfinished.jpg (71634 bytes)
Finished! pedalscomplete.jpg (47526 bytes)
Dash and everything back together. Time for a carpet cleaner?
btw, That wire by the gas pedal is a switch used by the auto tranny that I forgot to pull out. I just snipped the wire after everthing was done.


I'd recommend that you start with the pedals. If you give up anywhere it will be here......
Completely remove the battery from the car before starting this project, it will have to be removed anyways when it's time to take the transmission out (to get to the mounting bracket bolt). Remove the kickpanel under the steering wheel as well as the plastic moulding around the steering wheel (covers the ignition etc....). You will have to remove all the plastic moulded heating vents and pipes that are under the steering wheel that may be in your way. Don't even bother trying to work around them, just remove them before you start. In most cases it's only 1 bolt holding the thing up and it's more than obvious how it goes back together. There's a joint for the steering shaft just before the firewall near the brake pedal. Turn the wheel until you can feel the bolt holding the joint together through the hole. Remove this bolt using a 12mm socket. The steering assembly is held up at 2 points, start at the back (closest to the firewall) and you'll see a silver mounting plate. Remove the 4 bolts using a 14mm socket. Next you will see a cable that is in a white plastic housing attached to the ignition switch. There are 4 small philips screws that you remove then the cable can be disconnected. You won't need this anymore, this was the safety switch that prevented the key from being removed when the car is in gear (for auto tranny only.....). There are 4 more bolts on both sides of the steering assembly that can now be removed using a 14mm socket. After these are removed the steering assembly should come out of the car after a little wiggling to free the steering shaft joint where you removed the bolt.

You can now start removing the cotterpin for the brake booster on the brake pedal assembly as well as all the wiring connectors. There are about 6 bolts holding the brake assembly to the car (see photos for location of bolts). Remove all the bolts but don't try to remove the assembly yet. You have to pry the brake booster away (remove the 1 bolt holding the fluid reserve so you can pull it out more) from the firewall as far as it can go. You won't damage the brake lines, there's enough play in them to take the movement. Stick something behind the booster to keep it away from the firewall. By now I'm sure your back is aching from lying under the dash but feel good about going back under, you're almost 25% done under there. You will have to remove the 2 bolts holding the set of relays up under the dash, they will be in the way and you don't want to damage the wiring. Just start trying to remove the pedals, it will take you about 15 minutes to figure out how to get those damn things out of the car. You WILL end up purposely bending the sheetmetal under the dash that is the mounting point for the relays that you just moved. No big deal, don't bend it back yet though, the new pedals still have to go in and they are even more aqward! Before jamming the new brake/clutch pedal assembly in you'll notice a stamping on the firewall where the clutch master should go. This firewall is 2 layers thick and the stamping is only through the first layer. Do whatever you want to get through the second layer, short of removing the engine this must all be done from under the dash. I tried to get a sawsall, jigsaw, holesaw.....you name it.....under there with no success. In the end I used a 1/8" drillbit and followed the diameter of the hole drilling every 1/2 inch. I then took a nice long screw driver and pounded the %$@! out of the metal until the hole was there. Not as hard as it sounds. Use a 3/8" drill bit for the clutch master bolt holes. Use the stamping in the firewall as a guide for there holes as well. At this point you can jam the new brake/clutch pedal assembly into place, bolt it up using the same bolt holes as the old assembly. Reconnect the brake sensor and the pins for the brake and clutch master. There, you can save your back and move on from under the dash.


Under the hood - Total Time : 6 hours

Next up is to swap the tranny. Even though the most exciting part is the shifter it's best to leave this till last since it's one of the simplest parts of the job but most important is that you can drill through the firewall for the shifter cables when the transmission is removed. Remove the intake piping along with the filter can. Make sure the tranny is drained before removing the driveshafts to prevent a big mess. Remove the 2 17mm drain nuts to drain the oil. Remove the axle nut cotter pin then the Axle nuts with a 32mm socket and breaker bar before jacking up the car. Next the driveshafts have to be removed. Remove the tire, the balljoint nut, the tie rod nut and separate these joints. The remove the 2 bolts that secure the hub to the strut assembly. The hub should be able to slide off the end of the driveshaft without resistance. With both hubs off the driveshafts can now be pried from the transmission using a crowbar or long slotted screwdriver. Remove the cover on the bottom of the engine that attaches to the transmission. There are 3 bolts that attach the flex plate to the torque converter which must be removed before unbolting the transmission. The bolts are 17mm and a pain to remove. I found the best way was a flex joint and a 3" extension on my breaker bar did the trick. (By the way, I keep referring to my breaker bar which is a Sears socket wrench with a 3' bar over the handle. Nothing special with any of my tools) You can rotate the flex plate by inserting a 1/2" socket in the crankshaft on the drivers side of the engine to get to the other bolts. Next detach all the wiring harnesses, the shifting cable and put a jack under the transmission. Remove the starter. The hardest bolt that attaches the transmission to the engine is a 12mm bolt located under the starter with the head of the bolt on the engine side screwing into the tranny. I could remove it pretty easily with the intake assembly out of the car. There are 3 other 14mm bolts but leave the lower front one in until the transmission mount has been separated. The transmission mount can be separated by one bolt (17mm socket) that holds the two pieces together. It isn't necessary to remove more than this one bolt because the new transmission can use the new mounting bracket. Remove the lower transmission to engine bolt and the transmission is now free from the engine. Easiest way to drop the transmission is with a jack underneath the transmission and slowly lower the jack. When the jack is as low as it can go you should be able to slide the jack from under the tranny then slide the tranny out from under the car. A few more steps to go and you're halfway there.......

Removing the flexplate: This is a simple task if you know how to do it....Use a 1/2" breaker bar attached to the pulley side of the engine and wedge it in so that the engine crankshaft won't turn. There are 6 19mm bolts (most years) that fasten the flex plate to the crankshaft. Use a breaker bar and be careful not to let the socket slip, you don't want to break or strip these bolts! They are grade 11 and impossible to drill out. After they are removed you don't need them anymore, the flywheel to crankshaft bolts are longer than the flexplate to crankshaft bolts. Remove all the spacers and bushings that were between the flexplate and the crankshaft. The new flywheel must be mounted directly to the crankshaft with NOTHING in between. The flywheel will rub on the inside of the tranny if you don't remove these pieces. Now may be a good time to do some preventative maintenance and replace the crankshaft seal (If you're quick you can do this without draining the engine oil, barely any will come out in the 5 minutes it takes to replace.)


shifthole.jpg (64111 bytes)
Hole indent for shifter cables shiftcablesside.jpg (64032 bytes)
Cables installed


Drilling out for Shifter cables: On the firewall you'll see an oval impression where there's no insulation. This is where the cables will come through. Go inside the car first and remove the automatic transmission computer that is up against the firewall so you don't drill through it, you won't need this anymore anyways. Drill, hack do what you have to to get the shape that is on the firewall so that the rubber grommet and cables will go through.
oldbackplate.jpg (28834 bytes)
Backplate to be removed backplatetranny.jpg (40074 bytes)
You have to cut where the starter is if the bolt holes don't match up. backplate.jpg (30308 bytes)
Install the cut backplate, the other part with the holes can be attached later when bolting up the starter.

Checking the backing plate: Before you start remove the sheetmetal backing plate that is attached to the engine with 2 12mm bolts and check it against the new manual transmission to make sure all the holes including the starter bolts line up. IF they do then go ahead and bolt it back up. If not then drill the new holes and be sure to bolt up the starter before you install the transmission to make sure the sheetmetal isn't in the way. Bolt it back up after everything fits.

bolts.jpg (34038 bytes)
Difference in bolts

Installing the Flywheel and clutch: Give the crankshaft end a cleaning with a fine grit sandpaper then wipe clean. If you have access to compressed air then blow out the bolt holes in the engine where the transmission bolts up and the crankshaft bolts. Use loctite and bolt up the flywheel with the 6 flywheel to crankshaft bolts and tighten in steps. Use a torque wrench and finish tightening these bolts to about 100ft-lbs. Next install the friction plate and pressure plate. Use loctite on the pressure plate to flywheel bolts and finger tighten. Use a clutch alignment tool to align the friction plate to the center of the flywheel so that the transmission will line up when assembled. Tighten the pressure plate bolts in steps and finish off at 20ft-lbs. This may seem really light but it is the proper torque for a pressure plate. The loctite will keep everything in place. Remove the clutch alignment tool and you're now ready to install the transmission.

Installing the transmission: Lift, align, push in, bolt up. How you do this is up to you, I slid the thing under the car and just lifted it up while leaning into the engine bay and managed to get the thing on. Try to get a bolt in as soon as possible so all the weight isn't resting on the input shaft. Don't forget the 12mm bolt that goes at the bottom of the transmission right under the starter.

Install the Starter, transmission bracket, back up light sensor (only 1 harness will fit), reinstall driveshafts, hub assembly, tierods, balljoint nut and wheels. Everything is exactly the opposite of removal.

The Shifter: Time: 45 minutes. Remove the center console. Remove the cotter pins that hold the 2 cables on the shifter in place as well as the 2 wiring harnesses. Remove the 4 bolts that hold down the auto tranny shifter and the shifter can now be removed from the car. You have 2 options of what to do with the old shifter cable. 1) remove the exhaust and heat shields so that you can undo the hold down bolts (real pain in the ass and not worth it to save the cable) 2) cut the cable from inside the car and pull it through from the engine bay. I opted for #2 then just jammed a bolt in the hole to seal things up. After the new shifter is bolted up run the cables through the hole you made in the firewall and attach them to the shifter. Use a couple new cotterpins to fasten the cables to the shifter. Attach the cables on the transmission as well making sure that the right shifter cable goes on the right transmission side and vice versa for the left side. There, the fun part is done.


consoleinstalled.jpg (37911 bytes)
Console Installed, Still missing shift boot

autocomputer.jpg (44807 bytes)
Auto Tranny Computer can now come
Right out of the car. Not needed at all.

suede.jpg (50216 bytes)
I didn't have a shift boot for the console so I made one. Final installed boot to follow. I used a suede material with a shaggy backing to give it some substance. The final boot looks and feels great, not flimsy like most aftermarket boots. pipedreams.jpg (41836 bytes)
Pipe Dreams


Running a new line from clutch master to slave: Bend bend bend using a proper tubing bender.

Attach the clutch slave, fill the clutch master and bleed the system.

Wiring:

inhibitor1.jpg (46056 bytes) inhibitor2.jpg (52090 bytes)
To activate the starter circuit the 2 large black wires on the inhibitor switch must be connected to each other, I just cut the two wires from the harness and soldered them together.

You're now ready to start the vehicle and take it for a test drive!!!

 

[gurmanator]

you can find a donnor car for about $500.00 with all the parts you need.If you had a 1g I have all the parts you need rite here.

 

[Dream On]

Oh and what it says up there about the pedal assembly, its for a 1g. 1g's are a lot more difficult to get the pedals out, on a 2g its simple and you don't have to take off half as much crap.

 

[VicBoost]

whatever the car runs basically like stick becuase of the shift kit, its actually more accurate. So i guess i will just stick with my tranny i have now becuase its looks kinda hard and expensive to do the swap. plus i'm 6 foot 5inches and when i drive my buddy's 97 tsi my knees kinda hurt... since these cars are not that big.. . Guess my next car will be stick but 4dr sti or srt-4. But i still love these machines and man the shift kit is killer!!! sick launch, beat my buddy's 97 tsi and we have almost exact same mods and i beat him by a half a car length in first gear and he was surprised and he is a good shifter. But yea thanks for feedback