Torque Plate? [Merged 11-6]

[Ed98GST]

Mods, please move this if this is not the correct place to post -- I just figured it was the place where I'd "most likely" find what I'm looking for...
I'm rebuilding a 6bolt to drop into my 2g, but the machine shop I normally use doesn't have a torque plate. They do great work and I trust them completely, so I'd rather bring one with me instead of finding a new shop to do the work. Does anyone have a torque plate available for rent (or borrow, if you're feeling really generous )? I live in Northern Kentucky (just across the river from Cincinnati), but I'm willing to pay shipping back and forth if you're willing to ship it.
On a similar note, if anyone knows a business that rents out torque plates, I'd happily accept that info as well.

Thanks,
Craig

 

[Enraged78]

I had this exact same problem. See if your machinist knows anyone with a CNC machine. Get yourself a 2-inch thick piece of aluminum stock, and have it mocked-up according to the bolt pattern in your old head gasket. Obviously the oil and water lines to not have to be put in, and you want the piston bores greatly exaggerated to accomodate the boring machine and any overboring you plan to do. I had this done, and it only cost me $80.00. However, I did have a friend of mine cut me this price. Good luck! Oh, and by the way, do NOT let anyone talk you into doing this motor without a torque plate. It's been done before, and sometimes you can get away with it, but it's not recommended.

Matt.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

I had my motor done without a torque plate, as have many others up here who have used the same machine shop I have. Not only DSM's, they do a lot of Honda motors, 300z, 2JZ's, etc. I have yet to see one of their motors smoke more than just a puff after startup. Find a shop that does good machine work. I don't see any reason to require them unless you're going to roll right off the trailer and put it to the track. If you're driving it on the streets, put some miles on it, and you'll be fine.

 

[GSX_RCR]

I had my motor done without a torque plate, as have many others up here who have used the same machine shop I have. Not only DSM's, they do a lot of Honda motors, 300z, 2JZ's, etc. I have yet to see one of their motors smoke more than just a puff after startup. Find a shop that does good machine work. I don't see any reason to require them unless you're going to roll right off the trailer and put it to the track. If you're driving it on the streets, put some miles on it, and you'll be fine.

I just find it ironic that you jumped on the guy for using sandpaper to remove 0.002" off the rod bearings, but actually suggest not using a torque plate for boring a block.

Whatever floats your boat really. But it's not too hard to fab up. $50 worth of material and machining for the added insurance of a true bore. You can even sell it back to the machine shop for them to use!

 

[pinknuggit]

I've done around 25 customer 4g63 blocks, and I don't use a torque plate at work. None of them have returned to me with problems.

On my engine, i flipped the block upside down and ran the hone brush through the bottom of the cylinder rather than the top. I did it by hand and i got pretty damn close to the recommended crosshatch angle.

But i guess it's different strokes for different folks. If you want to feel like you're safe with a "true" bore, more power to ya.

 

[pneumo]

I just find it ironic that you jumped on the guy for using sandpaper to remove 0.002" off the rod bearings, but actually suggest not using a torque plate for boring a block.

Holyfreakincow! If anyone used sandpaper on my rod bearings I'd kick them in the nuts! That is the worst idea I've ever heard of. Rod bearings and cylinder walls are two totally different load bearing surfaces that need different finishes. I don't care if you're only trying to shave off 0.0001" once the sandpaper touches the rod bearing it's junk.

BTW, I have a built block machined without a torque plate. Not that I'm a shining exaple, I'm just another data point.

 

[blueman803]

Just how important is the torque plate when boring out the 4g63? I know its recommended but is the benefit only really seen at high mileage, high power levels, or right from the beginning? I can't find a machine shop anywhere around here with a torque plate and was wondering if I plan on keeping the power levels below 400, if I bore the motor out .2 what would be the result? Would the motor run fine, or would the compression slowly drop off and force me to do another rebuild before I even get 20 k out of it?

 

[half-cocked]

A torqueplate will increase all of what you mentioned. Theres a chance your pistons could scuff and the rings wont completely seat. Most machine shops can make one and wou can buy one from www.toastier.com . Are they a good idea? Of course they are, are the absolutly needed, no. I did not use one so the machinist gave me a little more piston to wall clearance which will give me some piston slap when cold but when it warmed up it should quit. I had the same question when I was taking my block to the machinist. Most peole here will tell you they are 100% nessecary, but I have an email from a guy who's runs an 11.7 quarter on a 7 bolt with JE pistons and he says he doesnt smoke a puff or slap at all even cold.

 

[1fast97gsx]

use a torque plate ... and .2 is a HUGE bore increase. Ya sure it's not .020?

 

[92redman]

Does anybody have some hard data pertaining to the amount of distortion with a torque plate bolted down? I mean I would like to see somebody measure the cylinders before the torque plate is bolted down and after to see how much it really distorts the cylinder on a 4g63 block.
I am not convinced that it is necessary to use a torque plate for most people's needs. If not using a torque plate will distort your cylinders enough to cause problems, maybe we should also be hot honing. Put a mock cylinder head on and run 200 deg coolant through the head and block and use honing oil the temp of engine oil. I think the distortion due to engine temperatures will cause more distortion than that due to torquing the head bolts.
I did come accross a jr. dragster site where the guy claimed that up to .001" distortion could occur using a torque plate. Now this is for a one cylinder all aluminum briggs engine, I doubt there would be that much distortion in a cast iron block. This is just my guess because I can't justify spending $200 on a torque plate to find out the actual numbers, but if it does distort .001", I can live with that kind of distortion.
Again, this is all just my thoughts, I hope somebody out there has access to a machine shop with a torque plate for our engine that can actually test how much of a difference it really makes.

 

[anconover]

theyre is tons of information of how much the torque plate does. IMO Its ABSOLUTELY neccessary, i wouldnt spend my money on building a motor without a torque plate.

I thought i remember .0002 or somethin like that, search around, its there.

 

[huafist]

theyre is tons of information of how much the torque plate does. IMO Its ABSOLUTELY neccessary, i wouldnt spend my money on building a motor without a torque plate.

I thought i remember .0002 or somethin like that, search around, its there.

I agree with anconover here. It's absolutely necessary unless you want to take the chance on having to replace your block. They're not hard to get either, just take an old head and cut it to make a good torque plate. IMO it's not worth the chance of screwing up without one.

 

[baby huie]

ok here it is to clear this whole subject up. you do not need a torq plate to boar and hone your blocks. is it a good idea yes, will you get the best performance with it yes. but u do not need a torq plate to do it. in my town there is no torq plates. so i called a guy that does strictly dsm's here and it is not needed. i have built big blocks and small blocks and never used one and never had a prob and the guy said the specialist said u dont need one to do it, he builds all his with out one. i think some people can go way out of the way and if u dont have a lot of money then whi do it. back in the day people used to blue plate and ballence motars is it necessary no but is it better yes. its like milling a engin u cam mill for 3 weeks just on the engin. that is not includeing boaring. yes you will louse 5 pounds but do i have the time no.i think it is all a preference and from what this guy is talking i dont think he needs to. unless i am wrong and he wants to go all out performance the go ahead and boar it with out. i am doing it in mine and looking around the 400 hp range good luck man.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

My block was done without a torque plate, and blew 3-5% leakdown on all 4 at 750 miles. I think that is some real life data for you proving good machine work > good tools.

 

[92redman]

My block was done without a torque plate, and blew 3-5% leakdown on all 4 at 750 miles. I think that is some real life data for you proving good machine work > good tools.

That is convincing enough for me. That just proves my thoughts earlier, torque plate honing is overkill for most people's needs. Most of the sites I found where people were mentioning a torque plate only said it is necessary for high performance engines. Besides, it's not like we are still using hard-as-a-rock cast iron rings. Todays rings are softer and springier(is that a word?), so they can make up for some machining tolerances.

Oh, and to huafist, how would you risk ruining your block if you don't use a torque plate? You could always pull it back out and finish hone again using a torque plate. The amount of distortion we are talking about is so small, you could hone again with out hurting your piston clearances. Assuming it was honed correctly in the first place, you should have some material left to play with...

 

[half-cocked]

Your pistons can come into contact with the block and thats bad. Usually just honing wont take that out, but you can bore it over again, this is why Ross reccomends if you dont use a torque plate add clearance. Race engine builders say you need to bore and hone with a torqueplate, as well as a front case and bell housing plates and hot water running through it, but boring is where it comes into play, if you didnt bore it with a torqueplate, you cant correct it by re-honing with a torqueplate.

 

[Defiant]

Your pistons can come into contact with the block and thats bad. Usually just honing wont take that out, but you can bore it over again, this is why Ross reccomends if you dont use a torque plate add clearance.

What?

Please explain. You lost me on this one.

What do pistons do, levitate magically through the bores?

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

I wouldn't classify my engine setup as a street driver.. it's more of a track only, high hp application. The engine clearances ARE tight, the same as any motor would be. Torque plates are a good tool, but no substitute for a good machinist. If anyone really wants to know what clearances were put in my engine, I'll go pull my invoice and look it up.

 

[Strm Trpr]

What ever... this is a useless thread..... do a search larry....
We just finished explaining the importance of torque plates and align honing the mains with a torque plate on the deck......

SEARCH!!!!!!!!!

 

[baby huie]

well all i gota say is that i am build a 400hp range witho out torqplate boaring and honeing so we will see how it goes i think that some people wirrie to much. if it was a allumimum block i could see that it would be necessary to torq plate boar and hom,e all blocks but its not its cast iron when i get mine dont ill post leak down specs and compression specs for u. god luck man and in my oppinion you will be just fine with out a torq plate.

 

[half-cocked]

What?

Please explain. You lost me on this one.

What do pistons do, levitate magically through the bores?

Ok you bore without a troqueplate and then assemble the entire engine and the borse can distort from the head studs/bolts. In some cases it can distort to the point where the pistons can 'scuff' the block, thats what I ment by making contact.

 

[Strm Trpr]

^^^^ Dude, why waste your breath....
These fools want to rebel, let them.... and when their 400+hp motor crankwalks from the block being over torqued, then fook em.... when they post up with issue's....

I guarantee you that this clown bolts his head down with ARP's and then he's ready to put her in, have him check the crankshaft endplay, and I'll bet he'll be close to the Mitsu spec of .0071" and .009" service limit......
Sorry for flaming these guys, but skimping on engine builds is simply retarded.....
Do a search on Torque Plates, and you can see why other guys aren't wasting their time post answers to these stupid questions....

Unsubscribed......

 

[Strm Trpr]

Ok you bore without a troqueplate and then assemble the entire engine and the borse can distort from the head studs/bolts. In some cases it can distort to the point where the pistons can 'scuff' the block, thats what I ment by making contact.

Oh, and you obviously don't know Defiant.....
He's got you now, get prepared for a schoolin........

 

[half-cocked]

Well please inform me if I'm wrong, this is how it was explained to me.

 

[half-cocked]

^^^^ Dude, why waste your breath....
These fools want to rebel, let them.... and when their 400+hp motor crankwalks from the block being over torqued, then fook em.... when they post up with issue's....

I guarantee you that this clown bolts his head down with ARP's and then he's ready to put her in, have him check the crankshaft endplay, and I'll bet he'll be close to the Mitsu spec of .0071" and .009" service limit......
Sorry for flaming these guys, but skimping on engine builds is simply retarded.....
Do a search on Torque Plates, and you can see why other guys aren't wasting their time post answers to these stupid questions....

Unsubscribed......

I'm assuming you mean that no 400HP DSM has survived without a torquplate. If so there is suffecient arguement to go against that.