(Title change:) Opinions on ACT2900 vs ACT2600 useing a SBC Kevlar disk

[Black_Bullet]

Don't forget to have the machine shop step the flywheel to match the disc, also (maybe I just missed it) what PP did you end up with?

A new 2600 from extremepsi.com

 

[Black_Bullet]

Don't forget to have the machine shop step the flywheel to match the disc, also (maybe I just missed it) what PP did you end up with?

What is the recommend step to tell the machine shop to step the flywheel to match the kevlar disk?

I mean maybe they already know what to do, but they didnt ask me to bring my disk in or anything when I talked to them over the phone. I am suppose to bring my flywheel to them to be resurfaced today so hopefully I get an answer on this soon.

Hopefully the flywheel is still good, I havent ever had that flywheel resurfaced or anything, and its suppose to be able to allow 2 to 3 cuts in it I believe before its unuseable.

Also Tim, you said I should put brake parts cleaner on the surfaces of pressure plate and flywheel for any greese, I suppose to make sure it wouldnt slip?

 

[twicks69]

What is the recommend step to tell the machine shop to step the flywheel to match the kevlar disk?

I mean maybe they already know what to do, but they didnt ask me to bring my disk in or anything when I talked to them over the phone. I am suppose to bring my flywheel to them to be resurfaced today so hopefully I get an answer on this soon.

Hopefully the flywheel is still good, I havent ever had that flywheel resurfaced or anything, and its suppose to be able to allow 2 to 3 cuts in it I believe before its unuseable.

Also Tim, you said I should put brake parts cleaner on the surfaces of pressure plate and flywheel for any greese, I suppose to make sure it wouldnt slip?

Having a clean surface will help prevent it from glazing, and will allow it to properly break-in.

As for step height, it should be between 0.608" to 0.610" is ideal. Up to .613" will work.

Since they need to remove the dowels to properly resurface your flywheel, make sure that they understand that they are METRIC Dowels, and not to use SAE dowels.

 

[snowborder714]

Reference here unless Tim has anything different or to add:
RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info

Well, he beat me to it anyway

 

[twicks69]

Ha!! Gotcha!

Same reference as mine!

 

[Black_Bullet]

Well I gave the ACT flywheel to my mom to drop it off for me on her lunch break at work today since she works right down the street from the place resurfacing it... When I go to pick it up later this evening I will see if they will measure it right in front of me to see if its at least close to the 0.608-0.612 ideal step recommended.
They should know what their doing, I took it to Bay City Clutches which is a very reputeable clutch/ machine shop for the Tampa area thats been around for a long time...

Edit-

Well I just called the clutch place that is doing the flywheel in hope of it being ready to go pick up, and turns out the guy says he needs to keep it until tommorow ( they close at 5 ) because he is having trouble getting any of the dowel pins out, and he said something about it being pressed in there to hard or something, and that every once in a while they get one thats hard to get out like mines...

What does this sound like?

 

[Black_Bullet]

Looks like I may have to take it to a machine shop that can get the dowel pins out of the damn flywheel.
The Bay City clutch rebuilders place that I took it to cannot get the dowels pins out nessecary to resurface the flywheel. I called ACT about it to make sure that there suppose to come out like that and they confirmed that they are and that If they happen to break for being stuck in there that they will send me new dowel pins for free... So we'll see what happens tommorow.

 

[twicks69]

Looks like I may have to take it to a machine shop that can get the dowel pins out of the damn flywheel.
The Bay City clutch rebuilders place that I took it to cannot get the dowels pins out nessecary to resurface the flywheel. I called ACT about it to make sure that there suppose to come out like that and they confirmed that they are and that If they happen to break for being stuck in there that they will send me new dowel pins for free... So we'll see what happens tommorow.

Not a suprise -- that is why I told you that you will need new METRIC dowel pins pressed back in.

Usually a slide hammer with a METRIC dowel pin puller will do the job -- the SAE dowel pin pullers aren't the right size and slip right off of the dowels.

The vise grip way does work also.

Otherwise, you will need a machine shop with a vertical end mill, and mill (or drill) the old ones out without damaging the pin diameter or depth. Fun stuff.

Dowel pins are cheap -- but this is a very common thing with all Mitsu flywheels OEM or aftermarket.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Not a suprise -- that is why I told you that you will need new METRIC dowel pins pressed back in.

Usually a slide hammer with a METRIC dowel pin puller will do the job -- the SAE dowel pin pullers aren't the right size and slip right off of the dowels.

The vise grip way does work also.

Otherwise, you will need a machine shop with a vertical end mill, and mill (or drill) the old ones out without damaging the pin diameter or depth. Fun stuff.

Dowel pins are cheap -- but this is a very common thing with all Mitsu flywheels OEM or aftermarket.

Yea when I talked to the guy over the phone this mourning I was literally reading your post of your suggestion about the dowel pins to him, and he was assuring me he knew how to do it and that he's been doing it for 28yrs and has done several eclipse related stuff before...

I will have to find out when I go in there tommorow, and if not then I will just take it else were. I actually trusted their machining over just another regular place because that place has such high rep with rebuilding/ and making such great clutches for a whole array of cars, and I figured they'd properly be able to step and resurface the flywheel.

 

[sliver]

Have you raked up the cash for your clutch fork? Where is the best place to get a new one? Do they only come OEM or are they aftermarket but in OEM spec?

 

[snowborder714]

This was definitely not the thread to ask that question in, but here's where you can get a new one:
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - OEM Clutch Release Fork : Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99

 

[Black_Bullet]

Clutch fork- dealer...

Its 60 bucks, I havent got one yet and dont know if Iwill because I have to buy some Redline light weight for the tranny and Im so low on cash its not even funny. Buying this clutch setup was already expensive enough for me . I may end up waiting till I rebuild the trans to do the fork. So hope It can last untill then... I dont really shift hard or bang gears though.

 

[sliver]

This was definitely not the thread to ask that question in, but here's where you can get a new one:
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - OEM Clutch Release Fork : Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99

It was relative. He needed one so I asked. Thanks for the link.

 

[Black_Bullet]

So just ordered this for the tranny...

LightWeight ShockProof™

 

[Black_Bullet]

Past two days Ive been soaking my tranny in this stuff called Goof off which works good on removing thick greese and dirt, and after I got my trans and tcase cleaned as good as I could get it I decieded to paint them to jazz them up a bit. I just used regular high temp engine paint. Hopefully it wont chip off or get too dirty too fast, but either way still an improvement, my tcase and trans were extremely filthy and old looking when I first pulled them off.

<div style="width:480px; text-align: center;"><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://w255.photobucket.com/pbwidget.swf?pbwurl=http://w255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car pics starting 4 24 08 and forward/DSM08/4290ed76.pbw" height="360" width="480"><a href="http://photobucket.com/slideshows" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/slideshows/btn.gif" style="float:left;border-width: 0;" ></a><a href="http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car%20pics%20starting%204%2024%2008%20and%20forward/DSM08/?action=view&current=4290ed76.pbw" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/slideshows/btn_viewallimages.gif" style="float:left;border-width: 0;" ></a></div>

Also, flywheel resurfaced to 0.610 step and torqued to block.
I put red loctite on the bolts and I torqued them all to 75 ft/lbs with my torque wrench in a star pattern, and then I set the torque wrench to 100 ft/lbs and torqued them again.
Is there anything incorrect about how I did that? Whats the factory torque spec on flywheel bolts?
I put the loctite because I wanted to make sure they were tight, I dont want the flywheel coming off and slicing my car and the passenger in half...

Thanks for viewing.

 

[twicks69]

The flywheel torque spec is 94ft/lb-101ft/lb
The way you did it is just fine.

I always loctite red my flywheel bolts at 100ft/lb torque.

That photobucket slideshow thing is pretty cool, but it sucked alot of my memory to load. It might be easier to hyperlink it instead of imbedding the code into the thread.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Ok, update.

Still moving slowly along, ended up over tightening a pressure plate bolt because I didnt set the torque low enough on the torque wrench and it snapped off into the flywheel, so the flywheel had to come back off but luckily I was able to manipulate the snapped bolt out of the flywheel.

So as of today everything is back together.
The tranny is full of Redline lightweight shockproof ( blue) and the Tcase is full of Redline heavy shockproof ( red) and I still have to change the rear diff fluid with the Redline heavy also.
Hopefully the rear diff will be easy and I wont have to unbolt nothing, I havent ever changed rear diff fluid yet since Ive owned car. It was filled with the heavy shockproof right before I bought it,
(almost 20k miles ago, or 2 yrs ago.)

Anyways, I was trying to drive car up and down in driveway, clutch didnt feel much stiffer than previous clutch, and I had it bled perfectly and clutch pedal is pulled all the way up to top of travel.
Car wouldnt go in gear when running and starting it in 1st gear w/ clutch down caused it to roll forward some.
Must not be disengaging properly...
Going to replace that tommorow, master cylinder looks good, and dont have money to get both so going to bank on the slave cylinder being bad. Looks generic and was never replaced by me...

Pics of progress ( Engine bay/tranny looking cleaner.)

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[twicks69]

You will definitely need to readjust the clutch pedal as you are not disengaging completely. The rod needs to be threaded towards the master cylinder further.

As well, if you are still having problems after you do this, then you should fully thread OUT the master cylinder rod (towards the pedal) and bleed the slave again a few times, then start over and begin threading IN the master cylinder rod (towards the master cylinder) until you acheive the proper clutch adjusment and disengagement.

Have you noticed leakage at the slave cylinder to warrant its replacement? Have you dissassembled it to see if the O-ring on the piston is degraded or torn?

Either way, good luck with the clutch install and tweeks.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Yea man, definitly having some issues.

The slave was leaking and I replaced it today with oem.
The master cylinder rod is adjusted as far out as it can go, its only hanging in there by a few threads, cant make that any longer. The clutch pedal has been brought up as high as it can go, the clutch pedal switch is on its last threads also ( clutch pedal visually sits almost inch higher than brake pedal)
I used good fluid and thoroughly bled the system over and over again. I have braided hardline and no soft stock clutch lines...

When the car is in gear it tried to roll forward as low as 4k rpm.
I have to put it in gear then start it, if I start car in neutral wont go in gear...

The master cylinder "looks" ok I cant see anything leakage or anything, and it was replaced maybe 3 yrs ago by guy I bought car from.

Im hopeing Im not having these issues because I have a worn out pivot ball or clutch fork.
I never replaced those, ran out of time and money. They visually looked ok, so I was just hopeing so.
Fork didnt look bent, and pivot ball looked normal, and the pivot ball already had a nickle thick shim under it prior to me ever messing with it, I just greesed the assembly and installed a new oem tob.

As well, if you are still having problems after you do this, then you should fully thread OUT the master cylinder rod (towards the pedal) and bleed the slave again a few times, then start over and begin threading IN the master cylinder rod (towards the master cylinder) until you acheive the proper clutch adjusment and disengagement.

I didnt try it this way, we just had all the adjustments maxed out and bled...Will attempt tommorow...

 

[Black_Bullet]

Ok, getting that master cylinder adjusted is being a completely and utter bi***, cotter pin messed up and stuff.
I can barely fit under the dash to get in there and Im not even that big, and on top of that I keep having to unbolt the master cylinder just to make adjustments, the threads are stripped and I cant turn it under the dash.
This is becoming a serious pain.

Im about to just try to do one of the ghetto lengthning of the slave or master cylinder rod fixes and hope for the best...

Oh and btw, before anyone asks, yes I checked my pedal assemby for wear.
I can push the clutch down and let it come up by itself and it will come ALL the way up, I cant pull it up any further with my hand... The pedal assembly is fine under that impression? Unless Im checking wrong?

Only things I have left to blame are master cylinder ( because I didnt replace it and Im broke.)

&

Worn fork and or pivot ball....

 

[Black_Bullet]

EDIT:

Seems like ive been talking to myself lately in here but oh well.
So to summarize the situation, I have braided clutch line, was properly bled, clutch fork didnt look bent, I have a nickle sized washer under the pivot ball, I replaced the slave, my clutch pedal is brought up as high as it can go, master cylinder rod was threaded out as far as it could go for maximum throw and the pedal assemby doesnt appear to have any significant play in it, still wouldnt disengage far enough.

I just picked up a new master cylinder today, the old one wasnt leaking, but Im going to hope thats the issue with why this shit isnt disengageing correclty, if that doesnt work Im going to have use this extended master cylinder bracket I made ( welded nut on end.) only problem with this is it may close bleeder hole in master cylinder which would cause it to not have any adjustment...

Heres pics of that welded nut on the C shaped master cylinder adjustment rod...

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I really dont like doing ghetto fixes like this, but I am at the point I dont care, Im not about to pull that trans again.
So hopefully I will only have this master cylinder C bracket extended, and leave slave rod stock and stop messing around with that, but at least I can say im doing this for experimentation purposes...

 

[Black_Bullet]

Ok, I give up. I gave it my last try.

New master, new slave, bled properly, everything visually in order, still nowhere near enough disengagement, couldnt put it in gear when car was running.

Just for testing purposes I tried to extended the slave again and that didnt do it either. This thing is fubared.

Well after I get my new tires in and mounted on the rims, and back on the car Im going to get the car towed up to my friend Drew at Darkside performance and have him deal with it.
(The only person local id let work on my car.)

Common sense amongst the other variables is telling me that there could only be two more possibilities to this issue.
Either my flywheel wasnt cut right, or too deep, which I checked the step height and it was 0.610 like RRE recommends.

OR, the clutch pedal assembly really is completely worn the F out.
Guess I will check into getting the pedal assembly welded when I drop it off at Darkside...Better start reading into whats all involved with that... Thats got to be it?

 

[twicks69]

Are you sure you are not over engaging the clutch? As well, I have NEVER had to adjust the pedal throw -- just small adjustments with the master cylinder rod has always been enough to adjust a clutch.

Did you do as I reccomended? By beginning with the pedal at the stock location, along with adjusting the rod all the way out towards the pedal assembly, so you start by rebleeding it with the maximum amount of piston travel, then bleeding it accordingly and adjusting the threaded rod toward the firewall until it is properly enagaing and disengaging the clutch.

It could be flywheel step as well, but if you checked it and it was proper, then i would look at your adjustment techniques and read up for other instances.

As well, I would strongly reccomend using a new clutch fork, and new clutch fork pivot ball without any sort of shim. It was designed this way for a reason, and bandage fixes never work that well.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Are you sure you are not over engaging the clutch? As well, I have NEVER had to adjust the pedal throw -- just small adjustments with the master cylinder rod has always been enough to adjust a clutch.

Did you do as I reccomended? By beginning with the pedal at the stock location, along with adjusting the rod all the way out towards the pedal assembly, so you start by rebleeding it with the maximum amount of piston travel, then bleeding it accordingly and adjusting the threaded rod toward the firewall until it is properly enagaing and disengaging the clutch.

It could be flywheel step as well, but if you checked it and it was proper, then i would look at your adjustment techniques and read up for other instances.

As well, I would strongly reccomend using a new clutch fork, and new clutch fork pivot ball without any sort of shim. It was designed this way for a reason, and bandage fixes never work that well.

I tried your method, we bled this thing like 10 different times in several different ways.
Bled it with clutch all the way in, all the way out, if I dont have it at its maximum travel you can visually see the fork being pushed far enough towards the bellhousing.

Though it doesnt make much sense because when I extended everything for more throw it looked like it was going far enough that it should've at least somewhat shifted gears or something.

What Im noticeing, even if I bring the pedal engagement point way up with tinkering, the pedal stiffness just doesnt feel 2600 ish to me.
(I had a 2600 in previous dsm, and my friend currently has one.)

Im out of options for my capabilities, and my friends are tired of helping me over and over with this, thats why I was just going to drop it off to the shop. (They specialize in Mitsubishi btw, and Drew owns a built 1g)
Hopefully they cut me some slack, Ive already blown ALL my money on this.

Like I said, I asked the guy to measure flywheel step right in front of me and looked right.
I mean is it possible I have a defective pressure plate or installation issue, OR the pedal assemby is bent?

I was thinking, if the fork was bent or pivot ball was worn down it would make the fork appear CLOSER to the direction the slave rod is trying to push...

 

[twicks69]

If the clutch fork was bent, it would definitely give you these problems.

Did you torque the pressure plate bolts to 24-26 ft/lbs?

The main things now are either clutch hydraulics, pedal assembly or clutch fork/pivot ball/TOB, or overall clutch pedal/hydraulic adjustment.

PM me if you need any help finding Mitsu part numbers.