Time to upgrade my suspension

[Libila]

I just bought some stock 2g gsx rims with Yokohama yk420 215-50-r17 tires from GotEclipsed. Im going to hold off from putting them on till I have my suspension ready. I was thinking of doing just springs but I think it would be smarter to spend the extra money to get GC coilovers. So what I need help with is what spring to match with it and what shocks to get. I know DSMotorsports uses Eibach springs but what spring rate would be wise for a daily driven fwd? I do the occasional test and tune day out at the drag strip and Ill be going to the road course when its finished. For the shocks I was thinking of getting Koni Yellows because of their adjustability and I hear good things. Id like to hear some thoughts from experienced DSMers though. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[jtmcinder]

If you get Koni Sports, then I'd suggest 450/400 for the springrates.

- Jtoby

 

[MRPerformance]

Originally posted by jtmcinder
If you get Koni Sports, then I'd suggest 450/400 for the springrates.

- Jtoby

Jtoby,

Which anti-roll bars are these spring rates based upon? The rear sounds like it would be pretty stiff if used in conjunction with a large rear anti-roll bar.

The reason for my question is that I'm currently trying to decide how to set up my 95/96 FWD N/T Talon for road course use. On paper at least, spring rates of about 500 fr, 300-350 rear, in conjunction with a large rear anti-roll bar, seems to be the best way to get the car fairly neutral without the rear becoming unsettled over rough pavement. However, from searching the archives I see you recommend a closer front/rear spring ratio. I'm trying to determine if my math is wrong or if you're suggesting using a stock (or no) rear anti-roll bar or what...

I'd very much appreciate your comments on my proposed set-up: 205/55-14 RA-1s on the stock steel wheels, Koni Sports with custom spherical bearing upper mounts, coil-overs with as-yet-to-be-determined spring rates, Suspension Techniques rear anti-roll bar, urethane bushings for the stock front anti-roll bar.

My car did not come with a rear anti-roll bar. Since adding one requires fabrication and/or parts swapping, I wish I could get by without one. But I can't help but think that a rear anti-roll bar is necessary in order to eliminate understeer since the goal is to create a very balanced car in which to practice car control.

Thanks,

///Mike

 

[jtmcinder]

I saw "test and tune day" and read that as autoXing. I also saw that he dragraces. So I went with a relatively stiff rear in my suggestion. For road-racing, I'd back the rears off a bit and/or maybe up the fronts. Keep in mind that DSM have their worst understeer when down in the 40 mph range, which is where a lot of autoXing occurs. When you are going 100 mph, instead, a stiff rear can be - well - rather dangerous.

I was assuming RM swaybars. 24mm or so, front and back. If, instead, you were to install just a rear bar, then you can back the rears down even more for road-racing and autoXing (or up the fronts), but you lose the advantage of stiff rears for launching a FWD. One argument for only adding a rear bar (in the 24 mm range) and only stiffening the fronts using springs is that you are less likely to unload the inside front wheel. In a FWD, when the inside front gets light, you are toast. Or you are in the market for a Quaiffe.

As to your set up, I really think you ned to put more into the tires and wheels. These are the most important components for handling and you have way too much car for 205s. For autoXing and road-racing, it's 245s on 8" or wider wheels. The best budget wheel (assuming that you don't have huge brakes) is the 16x8.5 Kosei K1. These work very well with either a Hoosier or Kumho 245/45/16 R-compound. It's really the standard for autoXing a 2G, with very few exceptions.

- Jtoby

 

[MRPerformance]

Thanks for the input. It sounds like I was on the right track in thinking 500 fr, 300-350 rear, with a large rear anti-roll bar.

FWIW, the car will be used for DEs and open track days on road racing tracks-- no autocross or drag racing. It will be driven to and from the track and some on the street-- hence the choice of RA-1s and somewhat soft springs.

I'm aware that the 205 cross section tire will not provide that much ultimate grip, but that's okay. For one thing, I'm just wanting to use the Talon as something to drive while I'm doing a complete rebuild on my usual track car (an e30 M3). Also, being able to slide the car around a lot is kind of what I'm after-- I have so much $$ in the M3 that I find myself unwilling to push it past my own limit. By limiting the total investment in the Talon I'll be comfortable in driving it all out.

And that kind of leads back to why I asked what I asked. I would like to nail the set-up the first time rather than having to buy more springs --unless the rates will allow them to be used on the M3 Considering that the RM bars are apparently stiffer than the ST, would an RM rear bar be a better bet? Does anyone sell the RM rear bar by itself?

Thanks again,

///Mike

 

[Libila]

That was the worst high jacking Ive ever read.

Ive been giving some thought to just getting springs. Im not really going all out on the car because this is my street car, not a weekend car. I do however want a stiffer feel and better handling so I was thinking H&R race springs. What are your guys thoughts? I also will be upgrading/adding both front and rear strut bars and sway bars if that makes a difference.

 

[timmy]

If you dont mind that much of a drop. I think the race springs provide the most drop that a spring allows on a dsm. REALLY low.

 

[farey34]

I know cash is a factor, but I love the JIC FLT AII's. They are fully adjustable from spring rates, dampaning and ride heigth! You can set the spring rates, then use the adjustable dampning to adjust how soft or hard the ride is! I don't know how well they perform in autoxing or rally racing cuz i do neither, but i drive my car everyday and love the way it handls.

Took some corners preaty fast and couldnt break them loose, no under or oversteer. But I have new 225 tires on with like 1.5 neg camber in the rear and , I think 2 neg in the front, not sure of the front!

Just Love this setup and think every DSM out there should be running these.

P.S. I'm not a rep or anything!

 

[Libila]

Those are VERY nice. But Im building a simple daily driver so thats why I dont want to dump that much money into it. Anyone have any insight on to what springs would be good for my situation or should I just save some money and wait for the GC's?

 

[Siberian]

Originally posted by Libila
Those are VERY nice. But Im building a simple daily driver so thats why I dont want to dump that much money into it. Anyone have any insight on to what springs would be good for my situation or should I just save some money and wait for the GC's?

I've been researching this to death too. There really aren't any inexpensive, perfect solutions.

If I remember my reading (please correct me where wrong), two good options are GCs with Koni yellows and the proper mountings... or tein flex(?) which I believe includes the pillowball thingies (I don't pretend to know what they are, just that they save shocks from stiff springs <g>). But either option is very expensive.

Many people go for the ProKit with Tokico Illumina setup. Less expensive. Casual drivers seem thrilled with it... demanding drivers less so. The ProKit apparently doesn't do much to reduce understeer. Still, it's apparently not a BAD setup.

One of the cheapest kits is the Tokico springs with Tokico shocks kit. But the drop is kinda low, and I have no idea of the spring rates/balance. Most people seem happy with it for daily driving, but say it's too soft for anything more.

I'm debating risking the Tein Basic kit. No pillowball thingies, so it may kill the dampers... and no adjustments, so ya gotta pray tein matched the shocks to the springs properly. But at around $700+ for height-adjustable COs... not a bad deal.

Again, I'm a newbie, so don't take my word on it

 

[timmy]

I had the eibach pro kit with illuminas, and i like them very much.