Throttle bodies different between years???

[TajMan]

Alright here's my story. I bought a '90 Talon Tsi AWD with just a shortblock in it. I got a head, tranny, and everything else, and I've been putting the car together.

My neighbor has a '90 GS-T. Today I borrowed his car so I could compare everything with mine and get all the hoses and connectors plugged in right.

Now I'm to the point where I'm trying to plug in the throttle body electrical plug. On my car, the connections for the throttle body are both female!!! I obviously can't plug those together. My neighbors car is normal, male/female plug. The only thing I can think of, is I might have the wrong year throttle body installed on my car. (I got the throttle body from a different car, the kid I bought my car from gave it to me [he has lots of DSM's], I don't know what year car it came off of.)

So, do different years of 1G turbo cars use different throttle bodies? Do I HAVE to get a '90 TB? Are only the connections different, but the rest of the TB is the same? Both of them have 4 wires, can I just cut off the connectors and splice the wires together? If I can, what color matches up with what color?

Oh yeah, does it have to be a turbo throttle body, or can I get one off a '90 2.0L DOHC non turbo car?

 

[TajMan]

Looks like I have the wrong BOV too. I know that one came off a '92. I tried a few things though, and I can still make it fit onto all the intake pipes if I mount it upsidedown instead of right side up. Will it still work ok if its upsidedown?

 

[TajMan]

People on the DSMtalk forums have confirmed that the '90 TB is different. I must have a '91-'94 unit on the car. Still, nobody has told me if I can splice the wires and make it work yet.

 

[timloomis]

yea you can splice it in.the 91-94 turbo tb has 4 vacuum ports on top,where the 90 has em on the side and top.and a n/t tb is bigger than a turbo,you just have to get an adapter to connect it to your ic piping since the n/a tb doesnt have an elbow.

 

[TajMan]

Are you sure??? The TB that I have on my car (that I was assuming was from a '91-'94) has two vacuum ports on the side and two on top. Does this mean that it IS a '90 TB? Then why the heck does it have the wrong connector???

 

[TajMan]

Here's the connector coming off the TB that I believe is wrong. In the second pic you can see that wire that comes out of the connector. In the first pic, that small connector is what's on the end of the one wire. Where does it connect to? In the 3rd pic is another connector that comes off of that little unit mounted on the intake manifold under the throttle body (pic 4). I can splice the 4 wires on the TB connector, those other two connections are the last two that I still need to know where they go.

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[TajMan]

bump

I got everything hooked up (besides those two connectors that I don't know where they go), I used some wire to splice the two main TB connectors, and tried to start. I didn't like the sound the car made turning over. There was a grinding or something, didn't seem right. Anyway didn't start. I looked in the engine bay and saw that gas and sprayed out around the fuel filter. I had to run, but later that night I checked the fuel filter and I had forgotten to tighten the banjo bolt. DOH! I tightened it, so I won't have that problem again.

So guys help me out I'm dying here, you have no idea how many weird problems this car has been throwing at me while I've been putting it together.

 

[Turblown]

Okay... I just rebuilt my 1990 TB so I'm going to try and help you from memory, but use your best judgement.

Here's the connector coming off the TB that I believe is wrong. In the second pic you can see that wire that comes out of the connector. In the first pic, that small connector is what's on the end of the one wire. Where does it connect to? In the 3rd pic is another connector that comes off of that little unit mounted on the intake manifold under the throttle body (pic 4). I can splice the 4 wires on the TB connector, those other two connections are the last two that I still need to know where they go.

In Pic 1, the small connector is the WOT sensor. It attaches to a flat piece of metal that comes out of the top-left area of the TB (stand on the passenger side and face towards the intake manifold).

As for the rest... if you have a 1990 TB and a 1990 Car you don't need to "splice" anything. Just take a second and figure it out. There are only two sensors left:
- Throttle Positioning Sensor (TPS)
- Idle Step Controller (ISC)

The TPS is the 4 hole plug (pic1) that has wires to the black piece on the right side of the TB. The wires for the TPS should be long enough to run under the TB and plug into another 4 hole plug that is tightly mounted to the firewall.

The ISC is that "little unit" you were talking about. It's actually part of the TB. It has wires that run underneath the TB to the left side where a 6 hole plug is tightly mounted to the TB. You will have to grab the wiring harness from behind the Intake Manifold and find (it should be pretty obvious) a loose 6 hole plug that reaches the TB.

From there you are all set... just make sure you recconnected the Throttle Cable and adjust the TPS (if needed) according to your Haynes or Chilton's Manual. Again this will only help you put a 1990 TB in a 1990 Vehicle, which looks correct from the pics.

Hope that helps.

-Wes

 

[TajMan]

I still don't know what year TB I have. I'm assuming its NOT a '90, because I have two female plugs that obviously can't just plug together.

Here's a break down of what color wires both plugs have. Does anyone know what colors match up?

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And I still can't find the piece of metal for the WOT sensor OR the plug for the ISC.

 

[TajMan]

The ISC is that "little unit" you were talking about. It's actually part of the TB. It has wires that run underneath the TB to the left side where a 6 hole plug is tightly mounted to the TB. You will have to grab the wiring harness from behind the Intake Manifold and find (it should be pretty obvious) a loose 6 hole plug that reaches the TB.

Are we talking about the same thing? My connector has 2 wires not 6.

 

[oddrob]

Send in a pic of your throttle body. It looks like your missing the closed throttle position switch, which the single spade connector would connect to. From what I can see it looks like a 90 tb. Check the connector going to the cam sensor, its similar, make sure they are not mixed up. The oval 2 pin connector going under the tb looks like the knock sensor connector.

 

[TajMan]

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So you think the oval 2-wire connector (coming from that thing mounted on the intake manifold under the throttle body) is the knock sensor connector? Where does it plug into???

And yeah I've been told the '90 TB is the one with 2 vacuum hose ports on top and two on the side, except my TB had a female connector where as my neighbor's '90 GS-T had a male connector. (and my plug on the firewall has a female connector, so I need a TB with a male connector, or I need to know which wires to splice to make it work)

 

[oddrob]

You are missing the one part, where the hole is above the throttle linkage. As far as I know, the one coming from the TPS off the TB should be female.

 

[TajMan]

What is supposed to be there that I'm missing. I assume its some type of wide open throttle switch.

And the plug for the TPS thats on the firewall is female, so I need a male end on the TPS itself. My neighbor's '90 was set up that way.

I'd like to just splice the wires, so I'm just waiting for someone to tell me which ones go where.

 

[TajMan]

Ok so I know that single wire with the slide connector goes onto that switch I'm missing (threaded hole on back of throttle body). I'll locate a switch and get that hooked up.

I still need to find out where that other connector goes. You guys know that unit mounted on the intake manifold, its like underneath the throttle body. It has that two terminal plug on the end of the wires coming off the bottom of it, and it has two vacuum hoses that connect to it. The reason I couldn't find it on my neighbor's '90 GS-T is because I was feeling under his, and I swear the wires weren't even there. Its like someone just cut them off or something, real weird.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Here's the connector coming off the TB that I believe is wrong. In the second pic you can see that wire that comes out of the connector. In the first pic, that small connector is what's on the end of the one wire. Where does it connect to? In the 3rd pic is another connector that comes off of that little unit mounted on the intake manifold under the throttle body (pic 4). I can splice the 4 wires on the TB connector, those other two connections are the last two that I still need to know where they go.

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Don't know if this helps or not, but if you have a CA state spec car or motor, the two pin plug in pic#3 that goes on the lower plenum brace (that's not the one for the knock sensor... They look similar, but do not plug into each other) is for the EGR's EGT temp sender (for CA ONLY... The CA EGR valve actually has it's own EGT temp sender).

 

[TajMan]

Do you mean if my sensor is from a CA car? The sensor was sourced from a different car, and I have no idea what year.

And tell me this. If all I have is that TPS connector unplugged, should the car still start, and just not run perfect? I want to know if the car even starts so I know the shortblock and head I used were even good.

 

[oddrob]

The EGR looks right, looking at the back of the manifold, I can see your knock sensor plugged in, it has the same plug. The wires should directly corellate, g/r-g/r, g/blk-g/blk, g/w-g/w, ect. If the harness side has 2 black/red/white, that should be the cam plug.

 

[TajMan]

The EGR looks right, looking at the back of the manifold, I can see your knock sensor plugged in, it has the same plug. The wires should directly corellate, g/r-g/r, g/blk-g/blk, g/w-g/w, ect. If the harness side has 2 black/red/white, that should be the cam plug.

When you say cam plug, what is plugged into that? The CAS? What do I have plugged in wrong, and why don't I have a spare connector to plug the TPS into?

 

[TajMan]

Well in an hour I'm flying out to New Jersey, we bought 4 cars there and me, my dad, and two of my brothers are driving them home. I hope when I'm back on Saturday there is some more info posted that I can use!!!

 

[mwreed]

Well in an hour I'm flying out to New Jersey, we bought 4 cars there and me, my dad, and two of my brothers are driving them home. I hope when I'm back on Saturday there is some more info posted that I can use!!!

Ok, from what I can tell, it appears as though the plug you are looking at on the firewall, is the crank sensor plug. The plug on the firewall for the throttle body should still have the green wires on it. I'm looking at the pics of one of my cars and the plugs on the firewall from top to bottom are, the resistor pack, the crank position sensor then the tps connection. You may have already figured this out, but, just in case, that should help you. Look for the plug coming from the firewall with the 3 green wires on it. If you could snap a pic of all three plugs on the fire wall, it would be helpful, if you are still having trouble.

Mike

 

[TajMan]

Someone in another forum posted this:

"The thing under the throttle body is the EGR valve. Only CA cars (and 94+ cars since they're all CA emissions) have wiring going to the EGR, that's for the EGR temp sensor. Federal emission cars don't need that shit."

So it looks like thats why my neighbor's '90 car didn't have these wires coming out of it. So can I just cut the wires off or leave that unplugged and will it work... or do I need to get a '90 non cali spec EGT unit?

 

[TajMan]

also
I posted this first:
"I didn't post about it before, but I believe the short block or head I used are bad. (they were both used not rebuilt) It hasn't started, just cranked over, and it makes a bad grinding sound. Looks like I'm gonna have to buy a complete engine for $450 from this local junkyard and spend some MORE time to drop that it. I sure wasted a lot of time. I need some more opinions of it though. I'll have to see what I can do about taking video of it and posting it later."

and someone replied:
"r u sure?... maybe your not geting spark maybe your starter makes that sound?... maybe you tighten the cam caps to tight??...."

So what I want to know, is if you tighten the cam caps too tight could it cause a noise like this? I didn't use a torque wrench, and I did put them on tight. I understand they are only supposed to be torqued to 14 ft-lbs. I will loosen them all and re-torque them. Thats not much torque though, should I use loctite?

 

[TajMan]

Well I got all those bolts re-torqued. I tried turning it over again, it still made the same sound. However this time I have decided that I think the sound could be a bad starter motor. I am going to pull and inspect it, probably buy a new one just to try it. I also found that I had one sensor plugged in wrong, so I found the correct plug for the throttle body. Looks like I did have the '90 TB. My bad guys. The reason I made a mistake is because the plugs were mounted to the firewall in a different order than my neighbor's '90 GS-T. The problem now is my CAS isn't plugged in, and I have two unhooked female plugs again. They didn't change the plugs on the CAS did they? I thought that the '90 CAS had the wiring pigtail, and the later ones didn't have a wiring pigtail at all.

 

[TajMan]

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