Thinking of Buying this Head

[BoostedinSoFla]

I'm in the market for a rebuilt head since the one on the 6 bolt motor I have might need to be rebuilt. I stumbled upon this ad and it seems pretty legit but after speaking with the seller I'm kinda confused.

Description from his ad are as follows:

Talon/Eclipse/Laser DSM

2.0L 4G63 Rebuilt Cylinder Head in excellent condition

Had it rebuild a few years ago for a project Talon I was working on that I never ended up finishing.
I know the entire head was went through, valve seats reground and the valve guides replaced. I think those are the stock
valves and springs with new retainers. The 2 cam are also installed, and included with the head. Don't remember if the the cam sensor
is installed but I'm pretty sure it is.


THIS IS A COMPLETE HEAD
Rocker arms are installed and well as the cams and the cam retainers. This was the only picture that I had at the time,
it was taken before I reassembled it all.


Here's the convo:

Dear alyssajones23,
I have a few questions about this head and I am VERY interested in it. Is this a 1G head or is it a 2G 1995 (late 1994 built head)? Was the head properly decked to the correct tolerances? Were the lifters replaced and if so were they stock lifters?

Dear BoostedinSoFla,
Its out of a 93 eagle talon tsi. its 1G head. I don't remember if the lifters where replaced or not. It was decked and I was given a spacer for it. I think it was for the block though because it was warped and they had to mill it.
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Dear alyssajones23,
I'm confused. You were given a spacer because the block was warped or because the head was milled too much? How did the black get so warped?

Dear BoostedinSoFla,
When I bought the car, it had a overheating problem. Turned out it was a bad radiator, but it over heated a couple of times on me. It still appeared to run fine and I wasnt leaking anything. When I pulled it a part and took it over to a engine/machine shop, I was told that the block was warped and they had to mill it down. And he gave me a spacer. He did the head and the block for me.
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What else should I ask him about it? Does this sounds like it makes sense to you guys?

 

[evil tsi]

the only way i would ever buy a head like that is to have that person meet you at the machine shop you go to and have the head clearances checked in front of you. id rather be out like 20 bucks than buy a bad head

 

[motozachl]

WTF is a head spacer?!?!? I also don't see how the block got warped

I would pick it up for 200 else would rebuild the current head you have.

 

[dacowgod]

according to the wear indicator in the photo it is not milled beyond service limit yet....as long as its flat, theres no cracks, and the cams spin freely I'd have no problems running it.

 

[snowborder714]

Can you please point out the wear indicator Ricky? I wasn't aware there was such a thing.

 

[dacowgod]

Well maybe I'm totally off my rocker....but somebody somewhere sometime in my past has told me that this was the wear indicator..It was either my machinist, or an old V-8 gear head that taught me alot when I was younger...either way it was a trustworthy person in my mind..



Anyways I've personally had heads machined down to barely touch the metal that is protruding in the middle of that circle and have been totally fine... The head on my 2.4 is like that as we speak...

As you can see in the photo the metal in the middle of the circle is not shiney like the rest of the flat surface of the head...so it has not been machined down far enough to touch it...so if what I believe to be true is true..then you're ok.. and if not... You're probably still ok since I've definitely cut my head farther than this one w/o any i'll effects


EDIT:
Also You can still see the the chamfered area around the head stud hole on the right hand side for the oil feed to the head... My head was milled down where that was becoming very shallow and I had to re-grind that out too... So again that promotes the idea that his head still has some meat to it..

 

[black_gst]

^ he beat me to it

Can you please point out the wear indicator Ricky? I wasn't aware there was such a thing.

Ive never actually been told this but I always thought that what those little buttons, or whatever you want to call them, were for.

Also since that head is off a 93 and you can see the larger exhaust mani studs in one of the pics, that head will only work on a 7 bolt block unless you have the head stud holes drilled out for the larger 6 bolt head studs

 

[motozachl]

^ I would just by the depth of the oil relief port, the one we normally port for higher oil pressure. It appears to have plenty of material left if resurfacing need be

 

[codeofdastreets]

Can you please point out the wear indicator Ricky? I wasn't aware there was such a thing.

I wasen"t aware there was such a thing ether, has anyone else heard of this??

 

[BoostedinSoFla]

Hmm...I'm looking for a head that I won't have to take to the machine shop or I would've just taken mine there. He wants $200 for it. So you guys think it's a good buy? Anything else I should ask him?

Also since that head is off a 93 and you can see the larger exhaust mani studs in one of the pics, that head will only work on a 7 bolt block unless you have the head stud holes drilled out for the larger 6 bolt head studs

I'll think I'll enlarge the holes to make the 6 bolt studs fit. What's the proper way of doing this?

 

[black_gst]

Hmm...I'm looking for a head that I won't have to take to the machine shop or I would've just taken mine there. He wants $200 for it. So you guys think it's a good buy? Anything else I should ask him?




I'll think I'll enlarge the holes to make the 6 bolt studs fit. What's the proper way of doing this?

The correct way is to drill them out with the head completly dissasembled, and it should be done on a drill press to ensure they are straight and centered. Then the head should be cleaned to make sure their arent any shaving anywhere. Now that ive said that, I did this with the head fully assembled with a drill gun and made sure to chamfer the holes slightly on the deck side. I had no problems.

 

[BoostedinSoFla]

The correct way is to drill them out with the head completly dissasembled, and it should be done on a drill press to ensure they are straight and centered. Then the head should be cleaned to make sure their arent any shaving anywhere. Now that ive said that, I did this with the head fully assembled with a drill gun and made sure to chamfer the holes slightly on the deck side. I had no problems.

Ok cool. If I'm not mistaken, the 6 bolt studs are 12mm while the 1G & 2G 7 bolt head studs are 11mm right? If this holds true then we're talking about enlarging the holes only 1mm. I don't have a drill press avail and obviously the head is already assembled so doing it with a drill gun might be my only option. Also, what's the reason behind chamfering the holes?

By the way is there anything else I should ask this guy? I really just wanna get the head and put it on right away.

 

[BogusSVO]

sorry... that is not a wear indacator, that is where the molton alum is injected into the sand cast when they pour the casting.

According to my info, AERA, (Automotive Engine Rebuilders Assc) new thickness on a 4g63 head is 5.200 with a min thickness or service limit od 5.185 or .015 milled off.

the Mitsu factory manual has a service limit .007 (?) combined total mill of the block and head.


But from what I see the surface looks good for a composite head gasket.

I whould think the head is a bit past the service limit, due to the fact that the edge of the intake valve potrudes past the deck surface. with stock sized valves.

 

[defrag010]

The height specs for OHC heads are defined as a range that will yield factory tolerances on the other variables that are affected by head height, such as cam timing, timing chain/belt tension, and piston to valve clearance. They are great guidelines to have everything on a stock engine with stock parts go back together and result in tolerances that match factory specs, but a head that is milled beyond this limit is definitely not junk or useless.
I have built many 4g63's in the past with heads that have had over .030" whacked off the deck, and one that was surfaced so far that I had to sink the intake valve job to maintain the width of my 45 degree seat cut! They work fine, just check your PTV clearance and degree your cams (with adjustable gears if possible, but if not you can use degree bushings).

 

[BogusSVO]

@Defrag010.... I will agree with what you said, even milled past factory spec the head is not juk or useless. along with what you said with the cam time off, belt tension, Increased compression is also a factor.

a head that is milled .030, and set up with the 2g piston/1g rod combo, the tune will have alot of importance, due to the lower knock threshold. therefore a stock ecu may have propblems.

there are diffrent ways to correct for a head that is excessive milled tho. thicker HG,head spacer shims, lower compression pistons

 

[BoostedinSoFla]

I did purchase the head and I now have received it. Apparently it was rebuilt about a year ago but there was surface rust on some of the valve shafts looking through the exhaust ports. I don't know if I should really take this dude's word for it and just install it as is or have it taken to a machine shop to be looked over, that would simply defeat the purpose of buying a rebuilt head. I wouldve just have my old head rebuilt. I mean I can obviously tell that it was rebuilt from how clean it is and the fresh milling...Idk

 

[BogusSVO]

stick your finger in the port and see if the rust just whipes off