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The 1g all motor alternative!

EagleTalon1991

Proven Member
119
0
Apr 1, 2005
Traverse City, Michigan
its possible i almost attempted making my nt fwd a awd. All you need is a transfer case the axle from the transfer case, a awd tranny adn all the supsension what nots in the back. Sounds big ### it is but its possible.

Jeff
 

underradar92

Proven Member
1,002
19
Oct 19, 2005
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Or one could get an awd car w/trashed turbo engine and start there... I believe an n/t engine will fit an awd bellhousing.:cool:
 

EagleTalon1991

Proven Member
119
0
Apr 1, 2005
Traverse City, Michigan
If i remember right there was some modding needed to support the bellhousing of the awd turbo tranny because of the bigger size of it. Not quite sure just thought i remember reading it somewhere.

Jeff
 

Zero Bar

Proven Member
456
6
Jan 14, 2005
Columbus, Ohio
That would be nice for autox, a n/a awd. Build a 2.3 n/a motor and focus on torque and throttle response.
 

underradar92

Proven Member
1,002
19
Oct 19, 2005
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
hmmmm, that would be fun too. JETTING off corners on torque.
 

Zero Bar

Proven Member
456
6
Jan 14, 2005
Columbus, Ohio
It's what I'm contemplating. Either a 2.3 stroker or a 9000rpm screamer, I'm thinking a stroker would bode better for the autox I do. I will be moving into road racing in the next couple years and a turbo would be nice, but I see plenty of cars out there with stock engines doing just fine. I still plan to autox so I may just do the stroker as that will give me good power for all the racing I do.
 

anubis

Proven Member
234
4
Jul 23, 2003
Hemlock, Michigan
underradar92 said:
Or one could get an awd car w/trashed turbo engine and start there... I believe an n/t engine will fit an awd bellhousing.:cool:

yes, that's a much better way to go about it. you can bolt any 6-bolt 4g63 to any 6-blot 4g63 tranny.


Zero Bar said:
It's what I'm contemplating. Either a 2.3 stroker or a 9000rpm screamer, I'm thinking a stroker would bode better for the autox I do. I will be moving into road racing in the next couple years and a turbo would be nice, but I see plenty of cars out there with stock engines doing just fine. I still plan to autox so I may just do the stroker as that will give me good power for all the racing I do.

another option is to slap your dohc head onto one of the "big block" engines (g4cs, 4g64). it's just as good as stroking the 4g63. if you're after high rpm's, destroke the hybrid engine with a 2.0 crank. slowboy offers destroked engine packages.

EagleTalon1991 said:
This might be a dumb question but what is autox?

it's auto cross. check this out: http://www.sfrscca.com/solo2/faq/auto.htm
 

Zero Bar

Proven Member
456
6
Jan 14, 2005
Columbus, Ohio
EagleTalon1991 said:
This might be a dumb question but what is autox?
Autocross or Solo II is basically you against the clock on a cone course. There's many events each year and the track is different everytime. You can race any car from stock to a full race car as long as it runs, doesn't leak, and is generally safe. All you need is the driver, car, and a helmet(they have loaners) and youre ready to go.
 

underradar92

Proven Member
1,002
19
Oct 19, 2005
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
EagleTalon1991 said:
Sweet that sounds tight. To bad my local track is a hour and half away.
No track is needed. Usually courses are set up in parking lots. :cool: I guess the reason I like the turbo is more for practical (octane=boost) reasons. My car is a full time summer driver (a/c STAYS) and track day toy. I really like this n/t concept though.
 

Zero Bar

Proven Member
456
6
Jan 14, 2005
Columbus, Ohio
Exactly, our autox is held at a local minor league baseball field's parking lot. I'm sure there's a region of Scca near you up there in Traverse. go to www.scc.org youll be able to look up your local region.
Don't worry about not having a turbo car either, the car I'm in now is much faster at autox than my turbo Laser was and has over 100 hp less.
 

92DSMErdrick

15+ Year Contributor
286
3
Mar 16, 2004
Bethpage, New_York
EagleTalon1991 said:
its possible i almost attempted making my nt fwd a awd. All you need is a transfer case the axle from the transfer case, a awd tranny adn all the supsension what nots in the back. Sounds big ### it is but its possible.

Jeff

Yep you would need all that along with different gas tank. The lip where the spare tire in the back is different. FWD the spare dips downard. AWD the spare doesnt go into a lip in the trunk. I looked at an AWD up on a lift and tempted the idea of FWD converted to AWD. its not worth all the work. You would also have to change the exhaust due to the difference in bends. By that time you could purchase a whole AWD shell and pay less for an engine to drop in it. I converted my N/T to turbo and invest a great deal of money $$$$ Don't get me wrong it was loads of fun, but for the price i paid i could have bought an awd and put mods into that with the extra cash.
 

destrux

Proven Member
85
1
Nov 27, 2002
Tamaqua, Pennsylvania
The N/T transmission sucks and can't hold any power? Shhhh..... dont let my car hear you... I'm putting about 300 hp (turbocharged it) through mine and it has no more problems than my cousins FWD turbo that's making less power than my car. I have yet to see any proof that the turbo transmission is any more reliable than the NT (at least, at the max power levels that a FWD street car usually makes 300-350hp... the hell bent 400-500hp drag cars dont count, they blow all the transmissions). The only downside of the NT box is that it doesnt have the best gear ratios for a turbo motor, they are a little too short. Wider ratios are better for the broad torque curve that a turbo provides. The only reason I dont upgrade mine is that I pay $35 for a used NT trans at my local scrapyard, and there are never ever any turbo transmissions there, but always a NT one.

Hey, you forgot an option for more power!

Supercharging!

(Hey... it was done on a 1g NT.... once...)
 

92DSMErdrick

15+ Year Contributor
286
3
Mar 16, 2004
Bethpage, New_York
I wouldn't speak so fast. The majority of the Turbo'd N/T guys here have allready replaced the transmission including myself now. And i'll admit that im a baby when driving my car. . .i hardly ever beat on my car so it was a complete shock when i ripped apart gears. heres a few pics to show you what my gear looked like. . .

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/erdrick191/trans1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/erdrick191/trans2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

Your time just hasn't come yet, but be assured that that N/T transmission isn't going to hold out as long as the Turbo Tranny will. I've allready seen the video of Mavisky's blowing third gear, and i've seen the pics of TimG's tranny. The N/T tranny like you said the gear ratio's aren't the best for Turbo apps
 

92DSMErdrick

15+ Year Contributor
286
3
Mar 16, 2004
Bethpage, New_York
destrux said:
The N/T transmission sucks and can't hold any power? Shhhh..... dont let my car hear you... I'm putting about 300 hp (turbocharged it) through mine and it has no more problems than my cousins FWD turbo that's making less power than my car. I have yet to see any proof that the turbo transmission is any more reliable than the NT (at least, at the max power levels that a FWD street car usually makes 300-350hp... the hell bent 400-500hp drag cars dont count, they blow all the transmissions). The only downside of the NT box is that it doesnt have the best gear ratios for a turbo motor, they are a little too short. Wider ratios are better for the broad torque curve that a turbo provides. The only reason I dont upgrade mine is that I pay $35 for a used NT trans at my local scrapyard, and there are never ever any turbo transmissions there, but always a NT one.

Hey, you forgot an option for more power!

Supercharging!

(Hey... it was done on a 1g NT.... once...)

What kind of mods do you have done to your car that your saying ## doing 300hp? I had a good amount of mods plus pushing 18.5psi on the 14b and i wasn't doing anywhere near 300hp
 

sweeteclipse95

Probationary Member
5
0
Jan 13, 2003
Hell.............., Minnesota
i just bought a 1991 eclipse engine that i want to put it into my 1995 talon and i got it without the intake manifold or exhaust manifold and i was told that it was a turbo engine but the mechanics are tellin me that its a nt because it does not have a crank sensor or something like that is there any way i can tell if it is or not????
thanks
dan
 

Megags

Proven Member
155
0
Oct 21, 2003
--_United_States
If it's a 1g dohc it's going to be hard to tell whether it's turbo or not because the only diff is the internals. You can look up the code on the block, that should tell you. 1g dohc motors don't have crank sensors, they have cam sensors, and so do the n/t's cause mine does.

This thread is way off topic.
 

Talon_92_Matt

Probationary Member
11
0
Oct 13, 2004
Greensbor, North_Carolina
sweeteclipse95 said:
i just bought a 1991 eclipse engine that i want to put it into my 1995 talon and i got it without the intake manifold or exhaust manifold and i was told that it was a turbo engine but the mechanics are tellin me that its a nt because it does not have a crank sensor or something like that is there any way i can tell if it is or not????
thanks
dan


See if there is a knock sensor on the intake side of the block.
 

Quasimondo

Proven Member
2,660
66
Jan 17, 2004
Washington, D.C.
Found some useful stuff that you guys might appreciate:

http://www.pittspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13236
Results of a 1G cylinder head being tested on a flow bench, and after some light porting was done.

Also, I did some searching and found that Arias makes custom pistons, so you can get a set of high compression pistons, provided you supply them with the proper information about your engine.

http://www.ariaspistons.com/customformdrop.htm

I'll supply you guys with more links as I find them.
 

anubis

Proven Member
234
4
Jul 23, 2003
Hemlock, Michigan
since you brought up custom pistons, slowboy is offering custom pistons too. they've got ties with a lot of different piston manufacturers so they'll probably be able to get you a really good deal.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/shop.php?sid=&cat=4703

you're going to NEED custom pistons (high compression ratio) if you want to make serious naturally aspirated horsepower.
 

noodlez60

Probationary Member
18
0
Dec 11, 2004
streator, Illinois
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/The_Soft_Head_1999/

this article explains the advanced characteristics of a small "close the spherical as possible" combustion chamber. it also relates to adapting this tek to other applications such as our vehicles. in the article there is a part about changing the valve geometry, but i think that is a little too much, but may be nessecary for certain apps. i like this atricle :)

personally, if i were to use this information (at my current knowledge of dynamics) i would use the custom cam/piston combo for our engine, whether it be 4g63,64,61,67,cs,g64b and other such block castings. but remember i am here to learn aswell any math that may help me in my goal may help others awsell to understand what is best for them

honestly i have very little mathematical info on designing something like this setup. i have NO CAM knowledge, just lift and thats it... just know bigger is better (for the mostpart). as to a sherical combustion chamber, situated mainly around the exhaust, i would assume a half/half dome dish piston

now... as it pertains to my 2.4L 4gcs/63 head hybrid
i am taking into a lot of consideration in researching the best path to go about a high horsepower engine build. since i slipped my timing last summer, i now have a lot of spare parts and the urge to drive my eclipse again. now i dont want to take the time to list all the parts i have but i do have enough parts, smarts, and people to get the job done. here are the highlight parts:

eagle rods (stock length)
crower single valvesprings w/ tit. retainers
ported "trash" 1g head (slipped timing, may be useful for oversized valves? just ask for more info)
stock 2g head
adjustable camsprockets
stock 10:1 comp 4gcs pistons (add and remove metal for cnc dimensions or test models)

die grinder, autocad, calipers, jbweld, and other such is at my direct disposal and i have many friends in auto, cnc, classic machining, and racing careers that are willing to help any way they can (within reason).

as far as i know this is the most logical way to make this work. Personally i am willing to have it done. i also need an equation to find displacements with curve feeds and such. i can determine radiuses of curves after a first draft, then go back and forth while designing off of a base set of numbers

as for the piston design. I KNOW I AM IN OVER MY HEAD and it may seem im jumping in the deep end, but i know i want to learn and i learn by design... if you dont want to post in the thread, then PM me.
 

ATOMIK_82

Probationary Member
24
0
Oct 11, 2002
Ontario_Canada
Before you "jump off the deep end," as you so called it, consider your intensions for the vehicle and come up with a plan. As most people are aware, the chosen modification path may damatically impact its drivability and fuel economy(OCTANE!!!) and such. If money is tight, come up with an agenda with stages of modification. This a precision machine and all parts must be in harmony for optimum performance and pleasure.

Whats are you expectation for the vehicle? Street?... Strip?... Track?... Auto-X?... Drift?(heaven help you)... Canyon carver?... Trailer Queen?...

Maybe I can help.
 

noodlez60

Probationary Member
18
0
Dec 11, 2004
streator, Illinois
My goal is a spare longblock that I can throw in anything I want. I would prefer something like a dodge colt... or maybe my DSM. I guess my goal is to make a trailor "engine" and EMS.

with die grinding, my goal is a base "prototype" piston using the soft head article as referance and a guide. I want to make a half dome, half dish 10.5-11:1 CR piston that will work with a matching custom cam.


my true goal is to learn as much as possible. I would like to learn the benefits of precharging the intake valves to "get the air moving", from "soft head" article. i would assume an equation to match valve movement and piston movement would help in design.


nobody takes all motor DSM's seriously
 
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