tein flex damper full coil overs

[Ludachris]

That is a very truthful statement. I also never said that Tein was the best choice for OP. Just said that i have been happy with my experience with them. That is all.

The problem with statements like this is that there is no way to fully qualify your opinion. If 15 others chime in and say the same thing as you, the original poster would come away thinking that the Tein Basic coilovers are a great option for him, when the reality is, the better option would be the DG Koni kit we've all been suggesting to him. But since he got 15 replies from Tein owners saying they're happy with their kits he won't know any better. Never mind that those 15 owners likely never tried anything else but crappy shocks and lowering springs before they bought their Tein kits. Forget the fact that they've likely never had any experience with a properly designed 2g coilover that utilizes coaxial front upper mounts and had proper damping, so they can't compare the Basics to anything better.

I'm sure we could find plenty of people who are perfectly happy with countless other inferior 2g coilover options (fill in any brand name you want here), but that doesn't make them great options. If you're going to offer your advice on a product tell us what other solutions you have experience with and what it was you were after when choosing what you did. That will help us all qualify your suggestions/advice. It can be just as important to know what products you don't have experience with when you're promoting a product you do have experience with.

 

[91stocker]

Why hasnt one of the vendors put together the koni/gc kit ready to rock for the dsm's? So instead of saying hey buy this from these guys, that from the other guys, then mod this and that. We could just paste a link to a vendor's "kit".

 

[Ludachris]

Why hasnt one of the vendors put together the koni/gc kit ready to rock for the dsm's? So instead of saying hey buy this from these guys, that from the other guys, then mod this and that. We could just paste a link to a vendor's "kit".

The reason is....

- For the 1g, front Konis are only available in the form of inserts so you need a donor set of front struts (Mine are old GR2 bodies). And then it makes sense to trim the lower shock mount on the strut for clearance. Vendors wouldn't waste their time assembling these and grinding off the shock mount when they're not going to make much money on them. And even if they did that, the cheaper crappy coilovers are easier for them to profit from so why bother? There is not a good enough business case to be made to offer them.

- For the 2g, the GC kit isn't really the ideal solution unless you use the Dennis Grant coaxial mount design instead of the one from GC. And Dennis has created something of a copyright on the design he made available for the community to use for free, and he made it clear that no shop outside of Magnus is to produce those coaxial upper mounts and offer them as a complete kit to profit from. So you should theoretically be able to get them from Magnus but I'm not sure if Magnus is actually offering them. If there's no profit to be made, no other vendor will waste their time. I kind of wish Dennis didn't do that, as it might make it easier to get these kits on more cars but that's just how it is.

So basically, the best kit that you can get for under $2k is one that you have to source all the parts for and assemble yourself, which many DSMers won't do these days when there are cheaper "true" coilover kits available - even if those kits are inferior.

 

[91stocker]

That make sense. Its too bad it couldn't be offered as a kit. But your points make absolute sense.

Maybe offer a "core charge" with the 1g stuff. Send them good cores or pay a bit extra? I have no clue on what an end price could be on something like that. If it was even competitive with the chinabay coilovers i wonder how successful it could be.

If only it could be, Im sure the end result of that would be alot more dsm's with a proper suspension.

 

[Ludachris]

That make sense. Its too bad it couldn't be offered as a kit. But your points make absolute sense.

Maybe offer a "core charge" with the 1g stuff. Send them good cores or pay a bit extra? I have no clue on what an end price could be on something like that. If it was even competitive with the chinabay coilovers i wonder how successful it could be.

If only it could be, Im sure the end result of that would be alot more dsm's with a proper suspension.

Adding up the cost of the parts alone, without the assembly, puts any Koni kit up over $1k for the 1g and closer to $1500 or so for the 2g due to the extra machining and custom coaxial mounts. You can't get a Kon-based kit in the price range of the cheap coilovers. Now consider that many DSMers tend to get sucked into the marketing of the "true" coilovers that retail for under $1k with 30+ adjustments and they jump all over it thinking that it's automatically got to be better than assembling a Koni-based spring and perch kit - even when that is known to not be the case.

The Koni-based kits won't be comparable in price to the cheaper coilovers because the Koni shocks themselves are not cheap - why? Because they're good stuff. They're better than what you'll find on just about any of the coilover kits that are available in the sub $1k range by a wide margin - hell, they're better than just about anything in the sub $2k coilover range really. And vendors can't get them dirt cheap like they can the sub $1k coilovers, nor can they get the Ground Control kits for anything less than $400. The profit margin simply isn't there, which is why more DSM vendors don't carry them. ExtremePSI is one of the few vendors out there that I know of that carries Koni, and they have a very good price on them.

For 1g, the best/easiest Koni-based kit would be:

- Koni front inserts and 2g rears (since 1g rears are discontinued) - roughly $660 from ExtremePSI
- Ground Control kit with spring rates to fit your application/needs - $400 from Ground Control
- RRE front camber/caster plates (the caster plates require trimming of your shock tower to fit) - $295 from RRE
- You could source your own perches and springs to replace the GC kit at a similar cost
- This is the best/cheapest option for those who want to adjust ride height on a 1g

For the 2g, the best/easiest Koni-based kit would be:
- Parts list and specs can be found here: Autocross.dsm.org - Build Your Own Konis - cost would be somewhere between $1500-1800 depending on where you buy the parts
- A Ground Control kit combined with Konis alone won't be a good option, as you need coaxial upper front mounts
- If you read the link above you'll see that the GC upper mounts and the RRE upper mounts for the front aren't the best choice, you need the DG-design mounts
- This is the best/cheapest option for those who want to adjust ride height on a 2g

I would suggest the above options over any coilover out there in the sub $2k price range, and even a few above that price range. The Koni really is that good.

 

[91stocker]

We'll just call this the "Luda-kit" haha

For 1g, the best/easiest Koni-based kit would be:

- Koni front inserts and 2g rears (since 1g rears are discontinued) - roughly $660 from ExtremePSI
- Ground Control kit with spring rates to fit your application/needs - $400 from Ground Control
- RRE front camber/caster plates (the caster plates require trimming of your shock tower to fit) - $295 from RRE
- You could source your own perches and springs to replace the GC kit at a similar cost

But that is great info all around. Hopefully some of this stuff starts catching on.

 

[Tiki2777]

Sometimes opinions can be wrong, just saying.

But didn't you guys recommend tokico illuminas as your favorite?

 

[Ludachris]

But didn't you guys recommend tokico illuminas as your favorite?

Maybe when compared to the other non-Koni options. But I'll let Sam reply to that.